Got the Usual T&C's, what next?

[TwoTicky]

Hi,

 

I requested my CCA from Barclaycard several months ago and have received 2 lots of terms & conditions but nothing with a copy of my signature on. The card was taken out in 1998 so I think they do not hold a copy of my agreement and neither do I. I have been paying the minimum payment but recently had to stop work because I had twin girls and I'm self employed.

 

How do I put this account in dispute on the basis of them not providing me with my CCA and should I keep paying.

 

Please help.

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

I would send letter 9 here:

 

The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

 

While the account is in dispute, you are not obliged to pay them anything.

[slick132]

Hi TT,

 

There's a more substantial letter here that you could asapt and use - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/220592-cca-request-all-they.html#post2440121

 

Have you incurred any penalty charges on this a/c - these can be reclaimed in full.

 

Is there any mis-sold PPI on the a/c. I see you're self employed and this may make PPI inappropriate.

 

[TwoTicky]

Hi Slick

 

Thanks for reply.

 

I don't think I've missed any payments over the years but maybe a few were late.

 

I've started a separate thread for PPI, I cancelled it approx 6 years ago and remember being annoyed that I never requested it and it never covered me anyway. They never refunded me only cancelled it. My concern with that is that it was a while ago.

 

Also please could you tell me, once I send the letter recommended (thanks for that) will I have to continue paying or do I need to wait any period of time?

Edited October 31, 2009 by TwoTicky
Additional query

[slick132]

Hi TT,

 

If you have your old statements, go back and see how many penalty charges there are.

 

The age of the PPI issue doesn't really matter. Due to the Limitation Act 1980, you have 6 years from the discovery of their error to start a claim for a refund.

 

When did you complain and have them stop taking the PPI premiums.

 

BC have failed to supply your credit agreement in the 14 days allowed after the CCA request so you can stop paying if you want.

 

Be warned though, they'll be calling and writing trying to get payments out of you. And they'll whack a default against your CRA records in time.

[TwoTicky]

Hi Slick

 

Thanks.

 

It was about 6 years ago that I complained and hence cancelled the PPI. However I only complained via telephone.

 

Regarding the possible threat of a default on my credit file, I have read on this site that they are not supposed to do this. Has anyone that you know of in a similar situation had any luck getting the default removed.

Edited November 1, 2009 by TwoTicky
rewording

[slick132]

Hi TT,

 

It doesn't matter that you only complained by phone.

 

What matters is that you now realise they mis-sold PPI and they must repay it, with interest.

 

No doubt, you'll get help on this on your PPI thread.

 

Re Defaults, see the Data Protection and Defaults Issues forum for more info. Getting defaults removed is a slow process.

[TwoTicky]

Hi, please could you help, I sent the following letter to BC:

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

I note that you have replied to the above by sending an old copy of your companies Terms and Conditions and a current copy. I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a "true copy" of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

 

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, "the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form." This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations there under as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancellable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable. I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that, whilst the request has not been complied with, the default continues.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

 

And today I received a 3 page letter explaining that they had fulfilled their obligation and the debt still stands, I know many people have been in this situation and am wondering what to do next.

 

Caggers please help.

[willy2006]

I am having all this crap with barclay card and lloyds but we are just going round in circles.The letter barclaycard sent says what should be produced then contradicts itself this has been going on since july.They are adamant they have conformed though they have sent nothing worthwhile just some cancellation forms.Is there anything i can do or complain to as all that happens is they claim to have supplied the information,i state that they havent then they continue to harass my mum and dad 6 times a day.Surely if i have followed the correct procedure i can end this harassment somehow by reporting them to someone anyone please please any ideas????

[slick132]

Hi Willy,

 

See my response to TwoTicky below. Start your own thread for your BC case if you want to discuss this further.

 

Hi TwoTicky,

 

See this post which is similar to your case - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/210467-barclaycard-ex-morgan-stanley.html#post2644426

 

If BC haven't said this is their Final Response, send the letter I drafted in Roy's thread.

 

If they HAVE said it's their FR, use the link to Tony3x's thread and complain to the FOS using my draft letter.

[TwoTicky]

Will do Slick and good luck Willy

[TwoTicky]

To Willy2006,

 

Had a look at your threads and you don't seem to be getting any responses, I think you should open a thread for each of your dad's 3 cards in the appropriate organisations folder, ie Barclaycard, RBS etc. If you don't get a response and your thread stops being on the first page when you need it to be just post a reply saying "Bump", and that will move it up the ladder as it will have a recent date on it.

[willy2006]

Thanks for that wondered what i was doing wrong,been here long enough should have known that but thanks again