Paypal Chargeback - Advice Needed

[jcumpsty]

Hello. Can someone please give me advice how to proceed.

 

In 2007, I bought a Rangemaster ceramic sink for £200 for my kitchen. Unfortunatly it was 1.5" too wide, and I sold it on ebay. The auction had a buy it now of aprox £160. During the auction a bidder used the buy it now option.

 

It turned out the bidder was from Budapest. At first I was cautious, having never sent a product abroad, but when quized the bidder stated that he simply could not buy Rangemaster products in Hungary. I thought that as long as I had the money in my bank account, and shipped the product insured with a known courier, everything would be fine.

 

How wrong I was.

 

Because I had never shipped abroad before, and was a little cautious I did not ship the sink until I had cleared funds in my BANK account.

 

In May 2007, I shipped the sink to Hungary using Parcerline. The courier provided tracking details, and a basic insurance of £100. The buyer declined additional insurance coverage when offered.

 

Altogether from the date of sale, it took 3 weeks for the sink to reach budapest. The buyer signed for the delivery.

 

While waiting for the delivery, the buyer raised a non delivery claim with Paypal. Everytime paypal contacted me, I responded; immediately I sent them a link to the online tracking details, which they said was insufficient to confirm delivery. Paypal never called me, and never explained in what way the tracking information was lacking.

 

In June 2007, I obtained a copy of the signed waybill from the buyer. I forwarded this to paypal via fax, email, and post. They claimed to be unable to open the attachment, and claimed never to have received the fax or post. Needless to say they quickly found in favour of the buyer.

 

I have removed the funds from my account for the sink, however when they froze the account there was £105 in it from another sale. For some reason I never noticed the missing £105 until earlier this year, when I assked a Debt Collection Agency why they where chasing me for £135 instead of the full £240 sale (and delivery) price.

 

Thus far I have dealt with 3 Debt Collection Agencies from Paypal. The first 2 I managed to reason with (of sorts) and get them to return the debt to Paypal. THe latest on is EOS solutions, whose only response is that I will have to pay the money back. I have also spoken to Paypal however the will not discuss the matter with me until I pay the money back. Everyone "understands my concerns" but are "unable to help".

 

When I originally learnt of the £105, I thought that I would need deep pockets to fight Paypal to recover it. I considered it a sacrifice to get rid of them. However they are not going away, so I beleive I will have to change tact.

 

This is getting very stressful and causing problems in other areas of my life. I am also concerned for my credit score as it seems easy for companies to apply a default to a file without due cause. Any ideas how I prevent this?

 

Many people have said to me...pay it and be done with it, but I beleive that people paying these bills is the reason why this happens. I can not justify paying a bill for money I do not owe. In fact I now want my £105 (plus compensation).

 

How should I proceed?

 

It has been suggested that step 1 is to call the police. They wont do anything but will issue a crime reference number. What should I put in the crime report? 2 possibilities are Theft (taking my £105 without the right), and Fraud (selling a bogus debt to a debt collection agency). Does that sound right? Anything else?

 

What would my next step be? Should I call Paypal and the Debt Collectors and tell them of the crime reference, or should I file a small claims suit? Should I request a winding up order as part of the suit?

 

THanks for any advice.

 

Note: Please be aware that I DO NOT want to pay this bill. I strongly beleive people rolling over an paying is why this exists.

[jcumpsty]

[problem]: I have recently learnt how this works. Here is what I was told.

 

A buyer, from abroad (ie. Hungary), buys an expensive item (ie. my sink). They dont care how much it costs, which is why he selected the buy it now.

 

They pay for the purchase with a stolen credit card.

 

The item gets shipped to the buyer; they actually receive the goods, but claim to have not received them or that they are damaged. They raise a claim for a full refund with paypal.

 

Paypal, generally always find in favour of the buyer. The funds are refunded to the buyers Paypal account. The buyer then transfers the cash from the paypal account to their bank account.

 

Now they have the goods AND the money.

 

It sounds so amazing that anyone can get away with this. Does that sound accurate?

 

Thank you.

[Hardupnotfedup]

Chippendale – Jellinek 1185 Budapest Üllöi út 618. Hungary ... This company sell rangemaster kitchens in Hungary little bit more proof that it is a [problem], tell them to take you to court I am sure a judge would find in your favour with the proof you have, Paypal are impossible to deal with ditto ebay and tell the DCA to prove you owe the money. good luck.

[count orlok]

I know it is a bit late, but when selling on ebay allways ensure you have full insurance on any items sent, don't give the buyer the option to opt out. Charge them for it, it is for your protection not theirs, any loss or damage before they get the item is your responsibility. Sorry.

[jcumpsty]

I know it is a bit late, but when selling on ebay allways ensure you have full insurance on any items sent, don't give the buyer the option to opt out. Charge them for it, it is for your protection not theirs, any loss or damage before they get the item is your responsibility. Sorry.

 

 

Thanks for the info...That may be the case, however there has been no loss or damage. Eventually the buyer claimed that the item was damaged (to me), but when I sent him the contact details to make a claim in hungary he never did. Plus the waybill contains his signature and no note to say any damage. Furthermore the complaint to paypal was for non receipt (not damage) and I have the signed waybill to prove receipt.

[jcumpsty]

Chippendale – Jellinek 1185 Budapest Üllöi út 618. Hungary ... This company sell rangemaster kitchens in Hungary little bit more proof that it is a [problem], tell them to take you to court I am sure a judge would find in your favour with the proof you have, Paypal are impossible to deal with ditto ebay and tell the DCA to prove you owe the money. good luck.

 

 

Thanks. I have no doubt it was a [problem] (NOW), but back then, I thought anywhere in Europe was ok as long as you had the money in the bank and shipped tracked and insured.

 

I NEVER ship abroad now and never buy abroad through ebay either.

[count orlok]

I see, I can't see how paypal could do this as you have proof it arrived. It seems Paypal are too eager to take the word of the buyer, so as to ensure repeat business. They should be carefull because if no one trusts them to support the sellers they will have no money, it should be the other way as it is the seller who pays the bills.

 

The only thing i can think of is to take Paypal to the small claims court for the money they took from you and to get an injuction against them claiming the mney thay are. They will definatly not want the publicity.

[ashmk]

I had a chargeback from someone who claimed it never arrived. Paypal refunded them but the person tried to get me to send them the cash before claiming so I was made aware that the guy was a [EDIT]. I emptied my paypal account, cancelled the direct debits and just as I predicted a Paypal dispute was opened. I sent the evidence that paypal said was not enougth. After that I knew I would be wasting my time fighting this and just ignored them.

They have since passed it to a few debt collectors who are a total waste of time because they are up against a brick wall with me. EOS are a bunch of monkeys who dont even put up a fight. To be honest I have cleared up most of my debt issues so I was looking forward to a battle with an idiotic debt collector but they have not put up much of a battle. Mabey because they had to call my non-geographic number that paid me nearly 10p a min.

 

As far as I know they can not touch your credit score.

[the_freedom_trail]

As far as I know they can not touch your credit score.

 

Did you ever check your credit score to see whether they have affected it at all? I'm doing some research on this area and am interested that is all - I am a student btw.

 

I once fended off debt collectors for my gf for an alleged ebay and PayPal debt and they didn't touch her credit record.

 

Best Regards,

 

TFT

[twofoot]

The only way is to send a letter before action to paypal and take them to court. You are one of many that gets scammed. I use PP all the time, everyday infact. I've had people try it on but I am wise to it. I would never buy or sell to anyone without a very good feedback score, home or abroad unless it was for a paltry sum. There are several ways to lessen the odds of a [problem] but that is a bit late for you. Always ship to a verified address. Check feedback is not just for items costing a paltry amount. If you are concerned in the slightest don't sell.