The COMPUTER action group-help save Elsa's PC!

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi,

I'm reasonable well up on pc stuff, software/op system problem solving and au fait with formatting/changing RAM, hardware etc but this problem has me stumped!! Any ideas welcome

 

The problem:

Every time I do a COLD boot (overnight or after a few hours) Windows won't load. I get one normal post beep, then black screen:

Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt: windows\system32\config\system

then usual blurb about Recovery Console.

So - I restart with XP disk, run FIXBOOT then exit and it restarts. Sometimes it then does auto CHKDSK which shows orphan files and corrupt attribute records then loads windows OK.

Stays OK all day even with restarts and turn offs...providing it's not off too long.

Very occasionally, windows DOES load on cold boot - but with reduced functionality, eg IE crashes continually , AV won't update etc, if I then restart..same error as above.

 

The system: Windows XP Pro SP3

3.40 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4

16 kilobyte primary memory cache

1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache

Board: ASUSTeK Computer INC. P5VD2-X 1.XX

Bus Clock: 200 megahertz

BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD ASUS P5VD2-X ACPI BIOS Revision 0501 06/29/2007

640.12 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity

491.30 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

 

HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H10A [CD-ROM drive]

3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

 

Hitachi HDT721032SLA360 [Hard drive] (320.07 GB) -- drive 0, Status: Healthy

ST332082 0AS USB Device [Hard drive] (320.07 GB) -- drive 1, Status: Healthy

RADEON 9200 PRO Family (Microsoft Corporation) [Display adapter]

RADEON 9200 PRO SEC Family (Microsoft Corporation) [Display adapter]

Realtek High Definition Audio

The story so far:

Problems started a couple of months ago:

The PSU started overheating a bit, then died (nothing dramatic..just clicked off and never restarted.)

Replaced PSU

On replacing, at first wouldn't start, found that 1 of the two sticks of RAM was faulty, as it ran quite happily with just 1 stick.

Ran OK for a bit then started having the boot up problems which I thought were due to a conflict with Windows update and AVG Antivirus pro.

Flashed the BIOS

Replaced old RAM with 2 new sticks

Ran loads of tests under direction of AVG techs, no improvement, in the end dumped it and formatted/reinstalled XP.

Same problem happened more and more frequently. Did several reinstalls.

Problem occurs even on a virginal install of XP, with and without updates/SP3 so it's not malware.

Tried a different XP disk to install - same problem.

Replaced Hard Drive - same problem

Replaced SATA cable - same problem

Put original (good) RAM back in - same problem

All capacitors are clean, no bulging.

That's where I am now - just working on theory that maybe on a cold boot the motherboard firing everything up cold isn't giving enough power to the RAM.

Tried just starting it and going into BIOS first, leaving it to warm up for a bit, then starting. That seems to have worked today but PC was only off for 2 hours so I'll know better in morning.

Think a new motherboard is on the cards? Maybe b**gered up a bit when the psu went?

Any other suggestions of what to try welcome!

[ukaviator]

It maybe your cmos battery is dead. The CMOS memory holds the BIOS settings that you define in the BIOS setup program. This memory is powered using a battery so that the settings are not lose when you turn off the power to the system. Many motherboards do not test the status of this battery and will just indicate problems with the CMOS memory when the battery fails, but some motherboards can detect when the battery is no longer functioning.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Aviator,

Thanks for that..I did replace the battery at same time as PSU but am beginning to wonder if it was a duff one..I'll get another and try that.

[locutus]

The motherboard with have a "chipset" chip on it. The past 3 or 4 computers I've seen that are not working with strange / random faults it has been this chip overheating.

 

 

Can you CAREFULLY touch that after the system has been running for 1 or 2 minutes and tell me if an egg would fry on it (be careful 'cos egg frying is no exaggeration in the ones I've seen like this!)

[lexis200]

Hi,

I'm reasonable well up on pc stuff, software/op system problem solving and au fait with formatting/changing RAM, hardware etc but this problem has me stumped!! Any ideas welcome

 

The problem:

Every time I do a COLD boot (overnight or after a few hours) Windows won't load. I get one normal post beep, then black screen:

Windows could not start because the following file is missing or corrupt: windows\system32\config\system

then usual blurb about Recovery Console.

So - I restart with XP disk, run FIXBOOT then exit and it restarts. Sometimes it then does auto CHKDSK which shows orphan files and corrupt attribute records then loads windows OK.

Stays OK all day even with restarts and turn offs...providing it's not off too long.

Very occasionally, windows DOES load on cold boot - but with reduced functionality, eg IE crashes continually , AV won't update etc, if I then restart..same error as above.

 

The system: Windows XP Pro SP3

3.40 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4

16 kilobyte primary memory cache

1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache

Board: ASUSTeK Computer INC. P5VD2-X 1.XX

Bus Clock: 200 megahertz

BIOS: Phoenix Technologies, LTD ASUS P5VD2-X ACPI BIOS Revision 0501 06/29/2007

640.12 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity

491.30 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

 

HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H10A [CD-ROM drive]

3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

 

Hitachi HDT721032SLA360 [Hard drive] (320.07 GB) -- drive 0, Status: Healthy

ST332082 0AS USB Device [Hard drive] (320.07 GB) -- drive 1, Status: Healthy

RADEON 9200 PRO Family (Microsoft Corporation) [Display adapter]

RADEON 9200 PRO SEC Family (Microsoft Corporation) [Display adapter]

Realtek High Definition Audio

The story so far:

Problems started a couple of months ago:

The PSU started overheating a bit, then died (nothing dramatic..just clicked off and never restarted.)

Replaced PSU

On replacing, at first wouldn't start, found that 1 of the two sticks of RAM was faulty, as it ran quite happily with just 1 stick.

Ran OK for a bit then started having the boot up problems which I thought were due to a conflict with Windows update and AVG Antivirus pro.

Flashed the BIOS

Replaced old RAM with 2 new sticks

Ran loads of tests under direction of AVG techs, no improvement, in the end dumped it and formatted/reinstalled XP.

Same problem happened more and more frequently. Did several reinstalls.

Problem occurs even on a virginal install of XP, with and without updates/SP3 so it's not malware.

Tried a different XP disk to install - same problem.

Replaced Hard Drive - same problem

Replaced SATA cable - same problem

Put original (good) RAM back in - same problem

All capacitors are clean, no bulging.

That's where I am now - just working on theory that maybe on a cold boot the motherboard firing everything up cold isn't giving enough power to the RAM.

Tried just starting it and going into BIOS first, leaving it to warm up for a bit, then starting. That seems to have worked today but PC was only off for 2 hours so I'll know better in morning.

Think a new motherboard is on the cards? Maybe b**gered up a bit when the psu went?

Any other suggestions of what to try welcome!What you need is a posh computer with lots of windows elsa:D;)

 

xx

[locutus]

What you need is a posh computer with lots of windows elsa:grin:

 

No!! Computers are like air conditioning... it messes up as soon as you open windows!

[dx100uk]

Maybe b**gered up a bit when the psu went?

Any other suggestions of what to try welcome!

 

 

 

 

 

 

my thoughts too unless the psu is underrated,

i bet one of the lines spiked when the old one went down

 

dx

[lexis200]

No!! Computers are like air conditioning... it messes up as soon as you open windows!

 

I live with an IT man so my computer doesn't need windows to screw up, it just needs turning on!

[Undercover-Elsa]

Morning all

Lexis- no.Im definitely posher than you cos I have been installing NEW windows nearly every morning last week! (and windowblinds too )

 

Thanks guys for all the input..

 

Result of my test this morning of loading the BIOS first and letting it sit for 20 mins to warm up...successful, then booted up normally.

I'll have to try it a few more times each cold boot, alternating with a normal start up to confirm it, but looks possible that the RAMs not getting enough power on a very cold boot.

 

Dx..the PSU was upgraded from 300 to 450 after the old one died. Do you think the old one might have screwed up the motherboard? (It was fluctuatingvoltages and overheating then just clicked off )

 

Locutus - I'll try that with the chipset in the morning...too late for now as it's already been on 30 mins.

 

I'm definitely thinking a new motherboard will be needed, but I like to know what the problem is first...

 

Thanks again

Elsa x

[MilkTrayMan]

Stays OK all day even with restarts and turn offs...providing it's not off too long....

 

Any other suggestions of what to try welcome!

 

 

 

 

Not exactly a 'techie' or environmentally friendly long term solution...

Leave it switched ON

...Then you can use the time it takes U to reboot etc to research your prob further on more specialised 'techie specific' forums.

[Undercover-Elsa]

you offering to pay my electric bill??

 

I've been on every techie forum there is..but sometimes they either treat you like an idiot or get too techie and want you to run all their tests like hijack this etc before they'll even answer. I know it's not a software problem but they seem to miss that point repeatedly.

Had more useful replies on here, than in the tech forums, TBH

[andydd]

you offering to pay my electric bill??

 

I've been on every techie forum there is..but sometimes they either treat you like an idiot or get too techie and want you to run all their tests like hijack this etc before they'll even answer. I know it's not a software problem but they seem to miss that point repeatedly.

Had more useful replies on here, than in the tech forums, TBH

 

Yep..I agree..Most IT Support does initially point towards a software failure (I certainly dont think it has anything to do with anti-virus ), when in your case it would appear not to be.

 

In your case you seem to have tried everything apart from a new MB so that should be the next step, a pain it may be though.

 

Have you tried a new OS install, you mentioned a new HD so perhaps you have.

 

As for leaving it on, I always leave my PC's on, although with hibernate settings so it will be 'off/hibernating' for a lot of the time.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

Dx..the PSU was upgraded from 300 to 450 after the old one died. Do you think the old one might have screwed up the motherboard? (It was fluctuatingvoltages and overheating then just clicked off )

Thanks again

Elsa x

 

yes def.

 

i would surmise that one of the onboard regulators [either internal to a chip or one of the external ones] has failed due to spiking, and thus is not providing the voltage required from cold boot.

 

this can also be confirmed by the fact that if the PC is left on for a while, it works ok, a very small amount of charge is being delivered and the capacitor [bucket] is taking a long time to fill, but once done, the correct voltage is being seen for that part of the MB to do its job.

 

dx

Edited October 18, 2009 by dx100uk
added

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi,

Andy - yep done loads of reinstalls, and even changed the XP disk, still exactly same.

 

DX - sounds spot on to me. Could try unplugging everything I feasibly can, even the DVD drive, and see if that proves the theory by lightening the boot up load.

 

Found exactly the same motherboard so going to order it tomorrow (it's been a great troublefree workhorse for last 3 yrs of doing heavy duty graphics/video/music editing) no complaints, shame if it's been parboiled

 

Then when it arrives I'll go blonde and let my son install it

 

Thanks for the great help so far, everyone

Elsa x

[The GodMother]

cant give u advise as i am rubbish with computers and there issues.

 

But i can wish u luck with urs and glen any useful info of the tread just in case.

[lexis200]

I agree with andydd about leaving it in hibernate or standby - if you do that and make sure you turn the monitor off when you leave it (rather than leaving that in standby too) the cost is minimal. At least it was when we used OH's power meter thingy to check!

 

I can't remember how much it was exactly, but it wasn't much - and that's when we had a minimum of 2 pc's and a server connected all the time rather than just a single unit.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Lexis

Agree, it would work, but its the underlying reason (damage) that worries me, so deffo going to replace the motherboard. Fortunately I saw it coming and got all my stuff onto my external drive, but I don't trust the pc anymore so before I start loading everything back on and working on it I want to be sure it's not going to go bosoms up

(that's a very posh word for t*ts)

 

Elsa x

[lexis200]

If you're posh enough to use the word bosoms instead of t*ts Elsa, you're posh enough to have your butler fix your PC:D

 

I have to be honest and say I have no idea about your problem and was only commenting that it didn't cost much to keep them on standby:oops:

 

My 'expertise' amounts to a bit of html that I had to learn to design some websites for my OH, and being irritated that my hard drive is yet again on my desk instead of in my PC as he's 'fixing' it again:rolleyes:

 

Never ever ever live with a techie!

[Undercover-Elsa]

Oooh sounds like we do similar stuff Lexis

 

I had to sack the butler, he kept eating my caviar butties, he was rubbish with computers too, just kept vaccuuming it out...

 

Since my son moved out I've had to wise up a bit to fix stuff myself (OH is the techie antichrist who uses the keyboard at 1 wpm), but if I get really stuck my son comes over to help, in return for chicken pie

 

It's a bit like when your car breaks down isn't it..you never quite trust it again to set off on a long journey...

[andydd]

I agree with andydd about leaving it in hibernate or standby - if you do that and make sure you turn the monitor off when you leave it (rather than leaving that in standby too) the cost is minimal. At least it was when we used OH's power meter thingy to check!

 

I can't remember how much it was exactly, but it wasn't much - and that's when we had a minimum of 2 pc's and a server connected all the time rather than just a single unit.

 

Yep..I have been sent a meter thingy by my leccy provider to try and keep my costs down as I was made redundant and ive found it usefull, I have 3 main PC's here permantly running, I have my Windows Media centre and my general use one set to hibernate and you will see the power drop by 200 watts or so each.

 

You may have to experiment a bit with the hibernate settings and also the wake up/lan settings too.. I've found that my server needs to be on permanently, hibernating it just screws everything up.

 

Andy

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Andy,

I'll certainly do that once it's sorted, but I'm worried that the problem will get worse because of unknown level of damage from overheating/power spikes, so I've ordered a new Mobo today, my son will shove it in on Saturday for me (I'm better with software than hardware :-| ) then fingers crossed, Bob's my Uncle..well hopefully LOL. If I change anything else (I'm to 4 new components then) I'm going to have to ring Microsoft before I can activate Windows, so hope that's finally it!!

It's starting fine each morning providing I press DEL and go to BIOS first, go make coffee, then press F10 and boot up

[dx100uk]

ring ms why?

 

dx

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi DX,

Because more than 4 of the main components would be changed (it's XP Pro OEM version, quite legit but I understand the key is linked to various major components and if you change more than 4, then reinstall, windows won't activate online, a number comes up and you have to phone ms to explain)

So I understand, anyway.

 

Your theory is holding up DX, no false starts all week after prewarming in bios

[dx100uk]

ah one of those.

will prob not like it when the gen adv update gets installed anyhow.

if you get troubles dont phone MS , i can sort it my way, just PM.

 

dx

[Undercover-Elsa]

LOL, cool! Will do DX, thanks for that.

Motherboard coming tomorrow, not forgetting thermal paste, and hopefully son coming Saturday to fit it.

Thanks again,

Elsa x