GE money change of terms - charges reclaim

[NN4]

I had a conversation with someone at GE on Sunday who called me because I have not being paying the extra £55 on my account towards the charges that they have told me I must pay.

 

I informed this caller that I was not in a position to make such a large extra payment on top of the £40 I had offered to pay off the £700 arrears.

 

Was told that I didn't have a choice and that new Regulation set down by the FSA allows GE to recover charges in a reasonable amount of time

during the course of the loan whether I or any other GE customer could afford it or not it would seem.

I told him that I thought that was not the case.

 

Said you can't get blood out of a stone etc and was told the next step would be court for repossession in that case.

 

I asked if GE were thinking of going into the rental property market as they would have enough repossessions to do so if they were going to continue with this type of behaviour.

 

He said repossession was the last thing they like to do (ha ha).

He said this new way of doing things was to prevent a shortfall at the end of the term of the loan.

I said to him that surely shortfalls could be taken care of through equity release or just by continuing to make payments until paid off or would be paid if a property was sold.

Not an option apparently.

 

The FSA told me today it was a complete nonsense and there is no such new regulation

and they certainly would not make a regulation that would cause untold misery and loss of peoples homes. T

 

hey want me to write to GE asking them which Regulation they are referring to (and a copy of the recorded conversation)

because the FSA know nothing about it and do not regulate loans such as this so would be interested themselves to know.

 

They suggested I get in touch with the FLA (Finance and Leasing Authority) as they are the regulators to see if GE is a member/on their register and if so to have a discussion with them.

They are and I did.

The FLA act as aribitrators but things move quicker when complaints are made through them which is done on-line through their website.

 

I would have thought that the charges accrued on a loan was a different issue to the loan itself

and could not be an enforced payment on the loan payments and that they can only suggest you pay extra towards clearing them.

 

I have written to GE today asking for a breakdown of the £40 administration charge as I see in the Daily Express today

that campaigners have noted it costs around £2.50 to send an automatic letter of warning etc.

 

I received court papers today for a respossession hearing as they have not accepted my £40 off the £700 arrears

because I am not paying the extra £55 so am apparently adding to my arrears.

 

I am waiting for a response to a SAR that I have sent so (Ell-en in particular) if anyone knows of a letter I can submit to the court asking for a postponement

whilst the account is in dispute, not only while I wait for a SAR response but also because I am trying to get as much information as possible

re the enforced extra payments I would be grateful.

 

I am so sick of GE. I am now in fighting mode and am prepared to do my utmost to (1) stop this enforced payment for charges and (2) get the charges back.

 

I will keep this thread up to date. I am going to look for a lawyers that do a "surgery" whereby you get an 1 hour free consultation or a firm that does a pro bono consultation.

[jansus]

There are threads on here where people have reclai*ed charged fro* GE

 

Do you want so*e links?

 

Bl**dy keyboard! sorry dog headbutted y cup of tea all over laptop

[NN4]

Janus Links would be useful. Hope the key board dries out soon!

[jansus]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/repossessions/166642-cheshirelad-repossessed.html

 

I think there are links on this thread

[jansus]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/other-institutions/114750-ge-money-secured-loans.html

[jansus]

interesting consultation paper

 

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/discussion/dp09_03.pdf

[jansus]

To the original poster - are you able to update this thread as there are others in the same position as you that need some help.

[NN4]

Janus and others I am sorry for not posting sooner I have been looking a seriously ill close relative and no access to internet. However I can post update now. I went to my local community law office and saw a very good solicitor who kindly came to court with me for my repossession order.

 

Please see the word attachment which is an update on the outcome of the court case and my letter of complaint to GE and my phone calls to the OFT. I very much hope it helps.

 

NN4

Update doc..doc

[NN4]

Here is the letter of complaint I wrote. I think it may be useful to some.

 

I write with regard to your review of my accounts and the fact that you have, without notice or negotiation, increased the monthly payments on these accounts in order to cover charges you are levying on the account. In fact on one account, you have increased the payments twice within a period of 3 months.

I have spoken with your litigation department on several occasions to inform them that I cannot currently afford to pay the proposed increased monthly installments and an amount off the arrears at the level you are looking for. GE Money Home Lending (GE) has so far turned down every offer I have made.

I have asked the various members of your litigation team to tell me why GE has decided to take a course of action without due consideration to the ability to pay by the borrower. I have been told that under an FSA Regulation GE have the right to claw back charges through increased monthly installments over a reasonable period of time. However, nobody has been able to tell me to which FSA Regulation they are referring. As GE insist that my secured loan comes under the remit of the FSA and not the OFT, you should note that it is my intention to lodge a complaint with the FSA as I believe your actions are the same as the actions that GMAC took against their customers who fell into arrears. On Friday 29 October, the FSA found in favour of the customers of GMAC and fined GMAC for mistreating customers who fell into arrears. The FSA found that GMAC levied unfair charges on customers who fell behind with their payments and were too eager to repossess them. I believe that I can prove the same against GE.

I have spoken to the OFT with regard to regulation, I now request the FSA Regulation and the extract from the Consumer Credit Act that sets out the section that says lenders can claw back charges through increasing monthly payments without due consideration to ability to pay be sent to me. I have reviewed the terms and conditions of the loan agreements and there is no mention of fees/charges being clawed back in this manner

In the meantime, I would like, at this point, to draw your attention to the "Second Charge Lending – OFT Guidance for Lenders and Brokers" (the "Guidance") as GE have the second and third charge on my property this is relevant.

In Section 5, "Post-Contractual Issues", section 5.3 states that "any charges on arrears or default should be limited to covering the lender's necessary costs…". I request that you send me a break down showing clearly why your necessary costs are so high.

I would also like to draw your attention to the following:

1. Paragraph 5.5 of the Guidance states "Lenders should not harass the borrower by, for example, making excessive or intimidatory telephone calls…". GE has called me every other day, including Sundays, to discuss the account in arrears as no arrangement has been agreed. I have on each occasion made an offer but it has been refused by GE. One example: I was called on Sunday 18th October. I requested that I not called on a Sunday. I was told that a GE employee "is allowed to call me on a Sunday". GE litigation department also called me on Tuesday 19th October, Sunday 25th October (despite my earlier request not to call on a Sunday) and on Monday 26th October (leaving two messages on my answerphone to call urgently). I called on Tuesday 27th October to go through the same conversation all over again – I make an offer, your employee refuses my offer, the calls start again. I have been told that I will get calls until such time as I make an offer that is acceptable. I believe that this behaviour is excessive and intimidatory and not line with Section 5.5 of the Guidance. I believe that the calls are intended to "wear me down" until I agree to make the offer of payment at the level GE are looking for whether or not I can afford it.

2. Paragraph 5.9 states "When a borrower is experiencing difficulties, lenders should seek, wherever possible, to negotiate reasonable repayment plans which reflect the circumstances of the individual borrower based on affordability…". I have informed GE litigation department of my circumstances on more than one occasion. I have also informed them that by putting up my payment to cover the charges on the accounts they are impeding my ability to pay off the arrears and exacerbating the problem. I do not believe GE is acting in accordance with the Guidance as GE have not negotiated, they have demanded repayments at a certain level. As for circumstances GE have shown no interest at all in taking on board what is said to them and have totally ignored ability to pay.

3. Section 5.10 states "Where appropriate, lenders should act with forbearance with a view to enabling a borrower to remedy the position, for example by freezing interest and other charges for a period, or allowing deferred payment of arrears". If GE were to freeze the interest and other charges, then I would be making higher payments in order to pay off the arrears. GE has no interest in acting with forbearance or offering any help in way.

4. Section 6 "Possession Actions" and in particular Section 6.3 which states "Lenders should not seek to repossess the borrower's property except as a last resort, where other forbearance options have failed or have otherwise not proved suitable. This means they should explore all other possible options for dealing with the problem, and should give proper consideration to any reasonable offer by the borrower to pay by installment….. They should not institute court proceedings unless and until all other avenues have been explored and have failed or have otherwise not proved suitable". I cannot recall any time when GE has explored any other possibility except repossession. The arrears that you are taking me to court for on 11 November are a little over £XXX (your figure is incorrect as you have not taken into account the payment made before you issued the papers). The arrears you took me to court for on 9 September were no more than £XXX (and I believe this included the higher payment towards the charges). I think this proves that repossession is a first rather than last resort.

In summary, GE systematically refuse offers of payment towards the arrears, do not explore other avenues and certainly do not show forbearance. The result of this is constant telephone calls (amounting to harassment), followed by repossession hearings which equals even more unfair fees and charges and I believe the above proves this point.

I am now in a situation where the only way I believe I can get redress is to complain to the FSA, the OFT where your telephone harassment and blatant disregard of the Guidelines is concerned and the FOS. A copy of this complaint will also be sent to the court as part of my defence for the hearing on 11 November.

Should you respond to the above, please do so by post or by email and not by telephone so as to make sure there is no misinterpretation of anything that is said

Your faithfully,

[mkb]

Wow - well done

 

I cant believe they issued possession proceedings for £700 of arrears which were already being paid back at £40 on top of CMI :eek:

[jansus]

Thanks very much for your post and sorry to hear of your problems.

 

I am sure the info will be useful

[jansus]

Have you ever seen a copy of their official complaints proceedure - does it refer to the FLA or FOS?

[jacqui_o]

NN4 what a fantastic letter, and yes perhaps a class action might be the way forward and I would be interested.

Can I ask are the 2nd & 3rd lending agreements the same as a mortgage agreement? would the same conditions apply.

[NN4]

Janus - I have not seen a copy of their complaints procedure so I don't know. I just sent the letter as I was so fed up with them. I do know that when speaking to them they refer to the FSA.

 

Jacqui_o - 2nd and 3rd lending are governed by the terms and conditions set out in the loan agreements attached to them. The 1st charge will be the primary lender (the one who gave you the mortgage to purchase the property in the first place) and will have first call. If the 2nd charge holder repossessed the property then all liabilities to the 1st charge holder would have to be paid first. If the 3rd charge holder repossessed then all liabilities to the the 1st and 2nd charge holders would have to be settled first and so on. 1st, 2nd and 3rd charge holders are the same in that they are all able of taking repossession proceedings against the borrower.

mkb - believe me they would take repossession proceedings if the debt was £100 and they didn't like the offer you was making to pay it off.

[jansus]

Normally in the Key financial Facts that you should have been given it should state their official complaints proceedure. As far as I know the FSA do not deal with individual complaints as such- however they do note complaints about lenders and keep files and if they get enough they can take action. But as a borrower you would not get compensation.

 

However the FOS can put pressure on the lender to refund charges etc. Well they did before the court case anyway. I am still confused as to whether the bank charges case should affect mortgage arrears charges - I think personnally it is a completely different kettle of fish.

[jansus]

Complain on unfair mortgage fees | This is Money

[NN4]

I have the letter ready to send to GE for refund of unfair charges but don't know who to addresses to.

 

If anybody has sent such a letter please could you tell me who to address it to.

 

I cleared my 2 loans with GE last year.

 

I have since had all my statements sent to me and am appalled at the charges they have added to the loans

even to the extent where I have been charged £40 for them to open and close my account on more than one occassion,

don't know whey they would do that and I was unaware.

 

Appreciate any help.

 

Regards

NN4

[dx100uk]

have you done a spreadsheet too?

 

dx

[ims21]

As dx says, do a spreadsheet.

 

I sent mine to

 

GE Money Servicing Limited,

Resolutions Department

Building 4, Croxley Green Business Park,

Watford.

WD18 8YF

 

[dx100uk]

merged relevent thread here too

 

dx

[NN4]

Thank you both for responses. I have done the spreadsheet so have my figures correct. Will send the letter off to them today. If I don't get the desired response I will go to the next step of court proceedings.NN4