Transcom/Paragon

[nell62]

Hi am asking for any advice you can give me....am going out of my mind with worry over this

we took out a loan with paragon abiut 12yrs ago for 15,000 unfortunately we had some money problems and went with Payplan a dmc...paid Paragon the agreed monthly payment for about 5 yrs then found we were in a position to settle our creditors...when we came to settle with pargon they said the debt was now over 13,000....obviously paragon were adding interest during this period ...while i was in dispute with them they sold the debt to ARROW GLOBAL who in turn have TRANSCOM acting on their behalf....I wrote and asked transcom for a copy of the original agreement and a breakdown of where paragon had come up with the figure ..had a reply off transcom in dec 2007 saying that they had requested a copy of the agreement and would be in toch with us when they received it....I heard nothing from them until this weekend..(nearly 2ys later..)...saying the same thing...that they had asked for a copy of the agreement and would get in touch with me when they received it...

what do i do know?...wait for them to get back to me?....or is there something else i should do?...by the way the debt has now risen to over 19,000

from what i have read on here today my understanding is that i will be liable for the full 19,000!!!!....

am worried out of my mind ...to the point i have had to take a day off work today to see if i can get any help in this matter

please someone give me some advice!!!!

kind regards..

Nell62

[Big_Bother!]

Hi I would Subject Acess Request Paragon. Costs £10 send the letter recorded - do not sign. This should return all the info Paragon have on you. You say that you have paid them for 5 or more years? I wonder if they have not applied your payments to your account? Seems to me something is wrong with the maths -You should also send the account in dispute letter as they failed to supply the aggrement two years ago.

Please don't panic.

[mikexlr8]

They can't enforce the debt until they provide a true copy of the CCA. Just scare tactics on their part. ;-)

[nell62]

Thank you for the speedy replies...will send a SAR to paragon todAY...THANKS AGAIN..

[mikexlr8]

You can also send this:

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Date:

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. This was signed for as delivered on the **DATE**

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE** (12+2 days after you made the initial request).

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired.

 

As you are no doubt aware section 78(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. You will also be aware of the CPUTR 2008 and the OFT's guidelines on debt collection which state under the title Deceptive and/or unfair methods - Examples of unfair practices are as follows - 2.8

 

(i) - 'Failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued'

 

(k) - 'Not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonable queried or disputed debt'

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY

Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully

 

xx x xxxx

 

DO NOT SIGN

[42man]

Disgusting.....no agreement then the debt would be unenforceable - have a read here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/204549-paragon-home-visit.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/200837-out-letter-paragon.html

 

I'd also be pretty sure that if this type of debt went in front of a judge, he/she would not allow enforcement as this would be an unfair agreement and verging on Loan shark activity !!!

[nell62]

Hi do i send the dispute notice to paragon or transcom?....it is transcom who i asked originally for the copy of the credit agreement.....they are the ones who did not reply for 2yrs

regards..Nell

[Big_Bother!]

I would send the account in dispute letter to Transcom and thee SAR to Paragon

Good Luck!

[42man]

Why don't you hit them with a CPR31.16 !! - if they fail to comply get a judge to ORDER them to produce a copy....I have a feeling a judge would be with you on this one !!! have a read - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

[42man]

You don't need to pay for the CPR31.16 letter either !!

[nell62]

Right guys....I have printed the letters both waiting to be posted....thank you all for your help

one thing though....when and if i get any replies...do i post my questions in this thread or is it best if i start a new one?...

regards

Nell

[42man]

Post them here Nell !! keep us updated...and send all correspondence recorded...

[nell62]

Hi Guys.....Help needed please

I sent the SAR letter to Paragon and have had a reply today saying that

 

they sold the debt to "arrow global ltd" in nov 2007 and could i send all correspondance to them from now on....

what do i do now?.....go to arrow for the info or keep on to paragon?.....altough paragon has sold the debt surely they would have all the info still on their files!!!!....

have required more info on them since last wrote

the original loan was for 15,000 when we went with payplan the outstanding balance was 13.430....after paying paragon 10,100 during that period my calculations were that we owed them 3,000ish....we now have a debt of over 19.000!!!!!!

what is going on there?....paragon have washed their hands of it after gaining everything and losing nothing!!!!!!

is disgusting that these companies can get away with this type of business

right rant over with....

cheers

Nell

[42man]

Absolutely correct....there should be at the very least a letter of assignment (if they say they sold the debt on) and screen shots / records of payment / statements......wait until the 40 days are up then either send them a LETTER BEFORE ACTION giving them 7 days to provide the information OR report them to the ICO (this could take ages) - few useful links for you if you want to take the court route to enforce them to comply with your SAR

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/49571-havinastella-lloyds-tsb-3.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/200771-starting-court-claim-sar.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/204306-fox-cap1-dpa-sar.html

 

You could also use the CPR31.16 to get them to reveal a valid assignment....if they don't have one (and there should be one from 2007 !!!) then they aren't keeping proper records....have you got the means for a solicitor ?

[ScabHunter]

Looks like Paragoon know they've got something to hide. Keep that letter as evidence that they are refusing to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

While Transcon remain in default of your CCA request, you need not worry about having to pay out more money.

 

1) Write back to Paragoon reminding them that selling an account on has no relevance to their obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998. Tell them that the 40 days they have to comply started when they received your SAR and that this timescale still applies.

 

2) Get ready to complain to the Information Commissioner's Office about non-compliance with the Data Protection Act 1998, even though they are widely regarded as being useless.

 

3) Get ready to issue court papers against Paragoon. Have a look here -

 

Data Protection Act: Non-Compliance - Consumer Wiki

 

What are they hiding, I wonder?

 

SH

[42man]

I agree with SH....I would not be paying them a penny more....I suspect those kind of figures would not get past the unfair agreements mark...please do send this to the OFT too...

[42man]

You might find this useful too - http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/taking_a_case_to_court.pdf

[nell62]

paragon also sent the SAR and the postal order back to me in the letter today.....should i resend with a covering letter?...while waiting for the 40days.....

[nell62]

Sorry guys.....just seen SH reply.....will write to them today

thanks....

[ScabHunter]

paragon also sent the SAR and the postal order back to me in the letter today.....should i resend with a covering letter?...while waiting for the 40days.....

 

Yes, send the original letter (take a copy for your own file if you don't already have one) and the PO back to them, with a letter pointing out that the selling on of an account does not affect their duties under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Although you are entitled to see everything they hold on you, it is better if the letter specifically mentions anything which is important. Here is a link to a good letter -

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca.html

 

Also, make sure you make it clear to them that the ORIGINAL timescale still applies - 40 days from the FIRST letter.

 

SH

[nell62]

Have written the letter and is readt to be posted as I type this

 

Thank you all for your help....will keep you posted on the outcome

please do'nt go away....think i will need a LOT of your advice in the near future....

Nell x

[nell62]

Thank you Guys......All done and ready to be posted tonight

[DT&FE]

Guys

 

we're the same Paragon etc sold on debt to Arrow - first had to deal with a crowd called Copes - they couldn't service the SAR request, now lies with Bryan Carter & Co. all they have supplied is an illegible photocopy of an CCA agreement of which the only clear part of is is our signatures!

 

The T&Cs state the usual Disclosure statement (DPA 1984) .....We will only exchange and disclose information within the Paragon Group...etc, etc, etc.

 

However section 8 © of the T&Cs state: The customer(s) irrevocably authories the company to make any check required or verify information and to disclose details of their transaction with the Company to any person for any purpose connected with the business of any holding company of the company.....etc, etc.

 

Does the above contradict the DPA statement?

As the loan was taken out in 1999 should the DPA 1998 not apply?

Were Paragon legally allowed to sell this debt?

Should I have been informed that the debt was assigned?

 

Thanks in anticipation

[nell62]

Hi Guys.....

 

I have had a reply from Paragon today regarding the letter i sent last week requesting the SAR.....THEY SAY AGAIN!!

 

"As you know yur loan was sold to Arrow Global in 2007 and they were provided with the credit agreement and all documentation regarding the account....and are therefore unable to comply with my request for a SAR as they are no longer in possesion of the documents......and request that we get in contact with Arrow"

they also returned the postal order that i sent to them.....only this time they did'nt return the letter i sent......(last time they did......it was stamped and dated by them which i took a photo copy of..)..

 

I have also had a letter from Arrow today.....(only the second one i have ever had from them.....is always transcom..)....replying to the letter i sent to transcom in dispute of them not complying to my request in 2007.....it says

"they note the content of the letter dated 29th sept....in particular section 10 of the data protestion act.....and to note that arrow global is entitled to process the data and does so in a lawful manner....i am indebted to the company and appropriate notice has been given to me....pursuant to the law property act 1925...and the data is processed as a consequence of the above for lawful purposses...theyare aware we are still waiting for a copy of the agreement and confirm that no activity will take place while this is outstanding!

phew!!!!......been a busy morning with the post box....

any help on how to respond to these guys would be very appreciated

 

thank guys...x

[42man]

I'd say that they would have at least a record of a notice of assignment. And they need to keep certain records to comply with the money laundering regulations. They would also have some sort of computerised data - even if it was a screen shot account.....I'd report them to the ICO if it was me.