Suspended pending investigation thats already happened ?

[majik]

Staff member did/should not felt threatened CEO has confirmed that there was nothing wrong with anyone behaviour. CCTV Evidence will show that they had a normal conversation (well it will show my partner clearly speaking to someone and it will also show no one else on site other than staff member) also staff member had ability to silently request police assistance via a alarm system, if she was scared/threatened why was this not used ? why has it never been mentioned before now when the footage was requested months ago ? If OH behaviour was wrong as you have mentioned why has company not mentioned it before? (incident involving Police was later on (5 hours or so) after the code incident. Email stating allegation 4 would be added certainly doesn't make this clear though.

 

Code incident happend on Monday morning

Email stating it would be added was sent monday evening

Disciplinary happened wednesday morning

They told me that they had to adjurn the meeting to investigate OH statement, so if they had already investigated the matter this would not have been required and also if they had already investigated the matter it would have been listed as an allegation. Also its confirmed in the minutes that following a full investigation via a telephone call "we believe staff members version of events"

 

I am unsure what staff members version of events are other than she did not give OH code which is all i have been told by company.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

What you need to find out is , is the ceo speaking on behalf of the staff member ? did the ceo speak to the staff member before sending you letter ? or is it just "in his opinion", this is very important as the staff member might have disagreed with ceo decision.

 

so they had all monday to investigate this matter ? this is definetly enough time to fully investigate the allegation.

 

As the Oh statement was new evidence that they had never seen before, they would need to adjourn the meeting to read it and calrify any points in it with staff member by phone.

 

Regards

[majik]

They had plenty of time to invetsigate the matter, however they have shown no evidence of any investigation taking place as they did with the other allegations, until i am shown proof that as far as im concerned its hearsay. They have been given ample time to show evidence and have failed, CEO has stated he has seen evidence and if he feels it to be relevant i will be given a copy, I have not been given a copy so therefore as far as i can see it is not relevant and should not/cannot be used in the ET.

 

Letter from CEO states after investigating the issues on said day i am satisfied that no illegal act took place and that OH and staff responded as to be expected in relation to the incidents at the time.

The above passage i feel shows that he has investigated the issues which should have involved speaking to staff members and therefore the statement is on behalf of the company including its staff members and not just the CEO opinion.

 

I also feel the above clearly shows the code was not used incorrectly, The original email stated the offense was "giving you OH a code to gain unathorisated acces to our building" The dismissal letter changes this to Breach of Security. I feel that the above passage proves the offense in the email (which is what i was hoping to defend but not given the opportunity) did not happen and as they have now changed the wording/allegation that i have not been given the opportunity to defend the new alleagtion.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

They do not have to supply you the evidence, the ACAS code is just a recommendation and employers do not have to stick to or use it. but if you win an ET they will probably have to pay out more in damages.

 

When going to the ET saying "i feel" or "in my opinion" will not hold up, you will need to establish the facts before going to the ET. Make sure that ceo has spoken to the staff, and he is speaking on there behalf as well. get it in writing.

 

I wouldnt worry about how they worded email, breach of security is just formalising the alleged incident.

 

Regards

[majik]

ok so my defense will be:

 

Allegation 1 - CEO has confirmed he has no evidence for this.

Allegation 2 - Upheld at appeal in my favour.

Allegation 3 - CEO has confirmed he has no evidence for this.

Allegation 4 - To date no wrong doing has been proven, Not mentioned/diiscussed at Disciplinary, Acknowledged in Minutes that is not part of disciplinary.

 

How can i address allegation 4 without evidence ?

 

How do you establish facts when the company did not respond to you and have now appoint solicitors who have informed us they have no evidence as of yet ?

[mariefab]

Also in relation to the clarification of my dismissal (allegation 1 and 3) the company have stated that i have to deal with there solicitors who were appointed after i had sent the letter, ET have said that if letter was sent before the appoint solicitors the company should reply what do i do now ?

I think that the chance of you getting a separate response from either oof those sources on this question is pretty slim.

 

Until you receive their response (ET3) you won't know exactly what you're dealing with.

I know that's it's very frustrating and worrying for you but there's really nothing more that you can do until then.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Forget about allegation 1-3, they seem to have dropped these.

 

The company will be given a chance to put forward all there evidence and you will get a copy of this at the et.

 

So for now there is nothing you can do.

 

So what are your exact reasons you put on your ET form ?

 

Regards

[majik]

Also in relation to the clarification of my dismissal (allegation 1 and 3) the company have stated that i have to deal with there solicitors who were appointed after i had sent the letter, ET have said that if letter was sent before the appoint solicitors the company should reply what do i do now ?

 

I think that the chance of you getting a separate response from either oof those sources on this question is pretty slim.

 

Until you receive their response (ET3) you won't know exactly what you're dealing with.

I know that's it's very frustrating and worrying for you but there's really nothing more that you can do until then.

 

Buts thats what confuses me, ET confirm they have received the companies reply (ET3 i guess) However i spoke to their solicitor today who has confirmed he is not meeting the company until next week to discuss how they want to deal with it and to go through the file etc for the first time.

 

How can they have sumbitted a defense when they aint met solicitor yet ? or will what they have sumbitted not be a defense just a thing saying they fully intend to challenge etc ?

[majik]

Hi,

 

Forget about allegation 1-3, they seem to have dropped these.

 

The company will be given a chance to put forward all there evidence and you will get a copy of this at the et.

 

So for now there is nothing you can do.

 

So what are your exact reasons you put on your ET form ?

 

Regards

 

Unfair dismissal, quoted that the company alledge 4 allegations however to date nothing has been provided with regards to alleagtion 4 and that there is no referance to it in minutes of disciplinary etc where it clearly states 3 allegations, and that they have either confirmed no wrong doing or that they have no evidence in relation to allegations 1-3

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

They have probably just replied and said they will contest it.

 

They will then speak to there solicitors and file a defence against your ET.

 

What is exactly that you are going to an ET for anyway(what are the main reasons) ?

 

Regards

[majik]

They have called me a liar for no reason and deliberately mis informed former colleagues of the reasons for me leaving.

 

I want to clear my name

 

I do not think companies should be allowed to get away with it.

 

I feel i have enough evidence to show they have broken the law and despite me telling them what they have and still are doing illegally they have made no efforts to correct their ways.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Sorry i meant what was the exact reason you put on your ET form ?

 

Regards

[majik]

I do not have the correct wording to hand

 

But it is explained roughly above.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Sorry what do you mean by the quote below?

 

and still are doing illegally they have made no efforts to correct their ways.

What have they done illegal ? do you have any concrete proof of this ? as this would help greatly.

 

Regards

[majik]

Yes i have concrete proof but am not prepared to into this at this moment in time, it will be used in Both the County Court case (Breach of S.A.R.) and the ET as and when needed.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

OK , was just trying to help you with your case.

 

Why dont you wanna go through it now ??

 

Regards

[majik]

Hi,

 

They have probably just replied and said they will contest it.

 

They will then speak to there solicitors and file a defence against your ET.

 

What is exactly that you are going to an ET for anyway(what are the main reasons) ?

 

Regards

 

I dont believe they can do this, ET3 clearly has space for the defense as their solicitor has already informed us he has not spoken to the client about the defense what could be in here ?

[majik]

I have no need to go through it now, i have the relevant infomation needed to prove they were and still are breaking the law and that i have informed them of this and that to date they have not amended their ways.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

If you no longer work for the company how can you prove they are still breaking the law ???

 

Regards

[majik]

knowledge is in the public domain if you know where to look.

[mikeyboy197663]

Hi,

 

Fair enough.

 

Do not get what the big secret is though ?

 

Regards

[mariefab]

Buts thats what confuses me, ET confirm they have received the companies reply (ET3 i guess) However i spoke to their solicitor today who has confirmed he is not meeting the company until next week to discuss how they want to deal with it and to go through the file etc for the first time.

 

How can they have sumbitted a defense when they aint met solicitor yet ? or will what they have sumbitted not be a defense just a thing saying they fully intend to challenge etc ?

 

It's possible that the ET has received a reply from the Company simply stating that they have appointed solicitors to deal with the claim on their behalf and perhaps asking for an extension to the normal time limit.

 

Or someone at the Company may have completed and sent the ET3 to the Tribunal (fingers crossed for you that this is what has happened because the chances are they've made a pig's ear of it); and from this point on the solicitors will deal with the claim.

 

It's a bad idea for you to be contacting their solicitors.

[majik]

I had a letter straight away stating that xx had been apointed to act on companies behalf and when i called the ET last week they stated that they had recieved the companies reply.

 

I guess we shall wait and see due to poor weather haven't been getting post for few days and is hit and miss when it is being delivered.

 

What do you feel the chances are having allegation 4 dismissed based on CEO's comments in appeal meeting here he stated "if witness statement is relevant i will forward you a copy" ? I have not been given anything in relation to allegation 4 and thats y i am so frustrated, allegations 1-3 i have everything and can and have in most cases clearly disprove companies allegations.

[mariefab]

What do you feel the chances are having allegation 4 dismissed based on CEO's comments in appeal meeting here he stated "if witness statement is relevant i will forward you a copy" ?

 

Zero.

They could feel that the relevant time to disclose it is during the tribunal process.

[majik]

Really despite the fact that they seem to have dismissed me soley due to the contents of the witness statement which they have refused to allow me to see.

 

Oh well it was just a thought, i just wanna know what im trying to disprove and be given the opportunity to prove the staff member wrong.

 

Would i be able to call her as a witness ? would it make a diffarence if she no longer works for the compnay ?

Edited January 14, 2010 by majik