Default Notice received from MBNA

[Elgrand]

Hi Rainbow,

 

Just came across your thread and thought If you don't mind, I could make a few comments.

Apologies in advance if any of this has already been discussed.

 

I had a similar DN issued to me as yours and also stated

in order to remedy this breach, you must pay the FULL amount of your oustanding balance which is £*****, never mentioned arrears just quoted the total amount.

 

That raised a question on my thread and it was about them not being able to demand the full amount without giving you the opportunity to remedy the arrears??

 

Also, mine too was dated 07th Sep and remedy the 24thSep

 

My letter from Experto followed and was dated 23rd Sep.

a day before the said remedy date?? The significance would be that the debt may have been sold before the remedy.

 

I did not notice a date on yours and wondered if it was the same.

 

It also had a different account number quoted on the DN and from Experto.

The account number change has been discussed on other threads and it appears they write off the old account for tax purposes and produce a new number.

 

Some of our more experienced caggers may be able to tell me if that means they have written the account off before the issue of the DN??

 

Elg

[ltc1607]

Sub

[rainbow moon]

Just an update to this saga, I have now had another letter back from Experto, stating please find enclosed a copy of your agreement as requested - I did not ask them for a copy but did ask MBNA way back in April this year

 

Now I realise that this account is not an old one and I did take it out online but surely they would have sent me more than this? My kids could have printed this up yesterday. Also, the last page states that certain conditions are missing and can be found if you click on the attached link - as I can't click on the link as it is a letter, surely they should have supplied these along with some kind of screen dumps etc? Any views appreciated. Rainbow x

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sunshine54]

hi

I also received a DN dated 7th September giving until 24th September to rectify but they also requested the full amount (which included £0000s in charges and interest which had been added whilst the account was in dispute)

 

I received exactly the same letter from Experto and have received a second chase letter and a couple of phone calls. I haven't yet responded to them.

 

Out of interest I rang MBNA and asked if my account had been sold and if so, when and to whom.

Very nice young man told me that it was sold to Experto on 16th September according to his system.

 

I think there's an awful lot of us in exactly the same position on this.

regards

S

[vint1954]

Just an update to this saga, I have now had another letter back from Experto, stating please find enclosed a copy of your agreement as requested - I did not ask them for a copy but did ask MBNA way back in April this year

 

Now I realise that this account is not an old one and I did take it out online but surely they would have sent me more than this? My kids could have printed this up yesterday. Also, the last page states that certain conditions are missing and can be found if you click on the attached link - as I can't click on the link as it is a letter, surely they should have supplied these along with some kind of screen dumps etc? Any views appreciated. Rainbow x

 

 

 

 

 

 

That does appear all that they need to provide for post 2007 on line applications.

[vint1954]

hi

I also received a DN dated 7th September giving until 24th September to rectify but they also requested the full amount (which included £0000s in charges and interest which had been added whilst the account was in dispute)

 

I received exactly the same letter from Experto and have received a second chase letter and a couple of phone calls. I haven't yet responded to them.

 

Out of interest I rang MBNA and asked if my account had been sold and if so, when and to whom.

Very nice young man told me that it was sold to Experto on 16th September according to his system.

 

I think there's an awful lot of us in exactly the same position on this.

regards

S

Ok sunshine,

 

The thing to remember here is that:

 

1. These letters were sent out second class, so the DN's are faulty on dates. Hope you kept your envelope and marked your DN received 11th September.

 

2. They can only ask for the arrears due at the time in the DN, not the whole account ballance and must not include any charges. So failure again.

 

3. Having sold the account, thus terminating the agreement, they have unlawfuly rescinded the agreement with them, and now they are only entitled to claim the arrears at the point the DN was issued.

 

Strange that they are quoting Experto as the buyer of your account. They were sold to Varde in Ireland, with Experto acting on behalf of Varde. Wonder if the VAT man knows?

 

Does your letter mention Varde?

 

Keep all of your letters and evelopes very safe.

[ltc1607]

I have the same but sold to varde

[Sunshine54]

hi

 

yes the letter from Experto does say that the debt was purchased by Varde but the MBNA chappie certainly read out Experto today from his system (he even spelt it for me - bless)

 

I have my envelope duly marked and safely filed - expert advice from this site over the months means that I keep every single one!

[Sunshine54]

sorry Rainbow - I'll stop hijacking your thread and update my old MBNA one

best regards

S

[vint1954]

hi

 

yes the letter from Experto does say that the debt was purchased by Varde but the MBNA chappie certainly read out Experto today from his system (he even spelt it for me - bless)

 

I have my envelope duly marked and safely filed - expert advice from this site over the months means that I keep every single one!

Some snipets picked up over the months. May be useful but I think some of them came from your thread.

 

From Rhia on MBNA

 

This was one of a number of CAG cases involving MBNA and Cabot. When they were pushed to disclose the original deed of assignment under court proceedings it turned out the debts had been assigned offshore via MBNA in Dublin and were subject to Irish law and not UK.

 

Cabot tried to say it was an isolated mistake but when other cases involving CAGers were brought in as evidence their case became very shaky indeed and they backed off.

 

It seems they don't pay stamp duty/VAT this way - that only becomes payable once they collect on the debt.

 

MBNA has 'previous' for VAT avoidance and were involved in an infamous case with the VAT man which went all the way to the High Court and (I think) the Lords and they lost, costing them millions.

 

Needless to say the VAT man was informed of the Irish agreements.

 

 

Hi MKM...

 

This has a whole lot to do with securitisation and the US fims like MBNA and Cap1 virtually invented the whole sorry mess.

 

Really they create money out of thin air don't they by offering youa credit card at high rates of interest. It doesn't take long before the capital you have borrowed has been paid back and it's just interest on interest.

 

However this is then securitised to a hedge fund or offshore and so the OC has now got rid of the liability for your debt and acts as the handling agent. The fun begins when you get into difficulties.

 

Instead of offering any real help they just ambush you with template letters and non-stop phone calls whilst bumping up the interest under what they call a universal default (the computer says you're in difficulties and likely to default so they raise the interest rate!!!???).

 

There's more to this than just seeming incompetence as they are boosting the outstanding debt so that when they sell it off to a DCA such as Cabot this inflated "loss" is then written off to tax (and possibly indemnity insurance).

 

Cabot then buys at as little as 10pence in the £ and attempts to recoup the lot AND add their own unsubstantiated interest charges to boot. If they assign offshore (and it's by no means clear that they all are but my guess is likely) then they don't pay VAT on the bundle of debts they have bought - only when they recoup the debt. This saves them a packet as many debts must be irrecoverable and they wouldn't want to have to pay VAT on something worthless.

 

The whole thing is one international Ponzi scheme aimed at making huge fortunes on the backs of ordinary folk whilst paying as little tax as possible.

 

My advice to anyone is try and avoid borrowing as much as possible - most of us need mortgages to buy a house but avoid anything else if you can or at least check the small print and make sure it's a decent rate of interest. And just don't touch credit cards with a ten foot barge pole.

 

I am speaking from experience here.

BTW you need to request the Deed of Assignment NOT the NoA. The latter is just a letter saying it has been assigned and is usually issued in the UK but I doubt it would matter where it was sent from (though may well be wrong).

 

Try a part 31.14 request for a copy. Cabot will squeal and squeal and squeal!

 

 

 

OK now MBNA were also Subject Access Request'd re this deed of assignment or sales agreement and they never ever supplied it and stated they didn't have to as it was senstive information (my ass)

 

At the time we were unaware of a way of getting this as well as requesting in a Subject Access Request (and by all means request it via data protection laws). You can use the Part 31.14 request under the Court Protocol Rules. Take a look in Legal Issues in the DCA section and surfaceagentx20 has created a sticky:

 

Getting Them To Reveal Their Vitals. Using CPR 31.14 to Your Advantage

 

This shows you how to take action to get information they don't wish to reveal. If they don't comply it does mean you taking out an injunction but it should do the trick.

 

Make sure re the Subject Access Request that you ask specifically for it. Also if you are already in court proceedings you can ask for this info under a Part18 application.

 

If they don't supply the info under the Subject Access Request within 40 days report them to the Information Commissioner and again specify exactly what you want from MBNA.

***********************************************************************************

 

 

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/parts/part31.htm#IDAVVI5B

 

*******************************************

 

With regards to the notice of assignment.... It should be delivered by recorded/special delivery and signed for. If this is not done and the assignor takes an individual to court they have no proof that the debtor is aware of the assignment and therefore have no legal right to take the individual to court.... Law of Property act.1925

 

If you acknowledge an assignment that has been sent then you can only rely on whether the date of assignment is correct and or also the amount that is quoted on it... The Notice of Assignment is an extremely important document and is often an excellent weapon in court.

*********************************************************

Edited November 4, 2009 by vint1954

[Sunshine54]

hi

 

it's easy to lose track of what is posted where isn't it?

 

The account number on my MBNA account had changed when the DN was issued but I thought that it only changed when they 'charged it off' or sold it. That indicates that they did this prior to issuing the DN

 

could anyone clarify?

regards

S

[rainbow moon]

I take it that as my dates on the default are the same as on Sunshines, then my DN is defective aswell? I have kept the envelope What is my next move then as MBNA haven't told me they have sold the debt on and Experto are now asking for the cash? I know there are a stack of charges on this as mbna have been charging ever since I asked for the cca - the account has been in dispute for months. Thanks for any replies. Rainbow x

[rainbow moon]

hi

 

it's easy to lose track of what is posted where isn't it?

 

The account number on my MBNA account had changed when the DN was issued but I thought that it only changed when they 'charged it off' or sold it. That indicates that they did this prior to issuing the DN

 

could anyone clarify?

regards

S

 

Sunshine, just had a look at my dn after you posted that, my dn has a different number aswell - it is not my account number. Does yours look like like it could be another account number? The reason I ask is that my original account number started 5407 and so do this one - it is the rest of the number that is really different T

 

The other thing I have just noticed is that the first letter from Experto is dated the 23rd - a day before the end date on the default notice.

 

I hope someone can help us with this one. Rainbow x

Edited November 5, 2009 by rainbow moon
missed a bit

[Sunshine54]

HI Rainbow

You'll probably find that the account number on your statements and on the many letters that they sent with threats and offers are the same and then the DN and the Letter from Experto have the same (but different) account number.

 

Not sure whether to contact them or not. Maybe the letter suggested earlier in your thread or maybe just wait and see.

regards

S

[vint1954]

Hi Rainbow and sunshine,

 

Keep the differing account numbers to yourselves. Do not alert them yet.

 

You will note that the DN text starts, "We refer to the above agreement that you have entered into with us", then above is the wrong account nomber. Silly them. A DN is a legal document required by the CCA 1974, not some bit of paper that they can Jigger around with at their pleasure. The good news is:

 

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,

Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit

Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,

Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it

 

They operate as though the laws in the UK don't apply to them and their staff sometimes quote that. That shows the level of training and understanding that their staff get.

 

As far as Experto are concerned, before arguing the toss with them regarding agreements etc and that they have purchaced a pup, just reply to them as below:

 

I am somewhat bemused to receive your letter of the *******2009, demanding payment on account number xxxxxxxxxxxxx. The account number referenced in your letter, is not one that I recognise.

 

I feel sure that this is just an administrative error on your part and that this matter is now closed.

 

Yours

[Sunshine54]

hi Vint

 

I like that suggestion!

 

I received a 3rd letter from them today (they are disappointed that I haven't called them)

regards

S

[rainbow moon]

Hi sunshine and Vint, thanks for the replies, I think I will just wait and see what they send next - I would hate them to realise their mistake and change it. Rainbow x

[rainbow moon]

Update, today I have received this letter from Experto, it seems they have realised thier mistake with the account numbers. Anyone have any idea how this affects me or the validity of the previous paperwork?

Thanks for any replies. Rainbow x

 

[GeoffreyAlby]

Looks like "due to the technical error" on their systems they have been corresponding with everyone with different account numbers.

 

 

What's even more puzzling is that my MBNA DN had an account number on it that wasn't mine, which subsequently became the account number that EC started quoting to me. Now EC have gone back to the original MBNA account number which as I say wasnt even on my DN. Also the original letter from EC was dated 23rd Sept saying Verde had bought the debt, this date if before the DN had expired.

[MVM]

I too had a DN from MBNA of 7/9/9 with exactly the same issues as highlighted on this thread. In addition to this I wrote to MBNA in December requesting a copy my agreement etc (which they sent) also in the pack was a statment of my account, showing the balance charged off, with a new balance of zero, min pmt required of £0 & zero % interest!! I wonder if this means (basing the information from this - my last statement) that I no longer have a liability to them?

 

Also I noticed that they had defaulted my at the CRA at the end of August (before they issued the DN) surely all of this cant enable them to have a valid claim against me?

[rainbow moon]

Update: Today I have received the following letter - does anyone know the best way to handle this? The ref number has changed back to the one mbna were using - it is not the same as experto were using and is different again from the one on the DN. Thanks Rainbow x

 

[ltc1607]

CMC are Experto I think you will find

[sunray001]

Looks like Experto Credite have passed the debt onto themselves.

[hatesdebt]

This is all very fishy eh?

 

Mbna "say" they sold the account to EC, but never send a NOA.

Even if it was sold to EC, and EC sell to Varde a bit quick, EC should also send a NOA.

 

Methinks Mbna are being economical with the truth here and that's why they don't send the NOA's. The debt is probably sold direct to Varde. As Varde cannot litigate in the UK, they give EC equitable right to do the chasing.

 

I think this will just become a DCA merrygoround. EC can't litigate as they clearly don't own the debt. If they chance thier arm with litigation, surely all you would have to do is put them to strict proof that they own the debt?

 

As Vint says, just keep pushing for copies of the noa's and deeds of assignment.

 

Strange one indeed......

[GeoffreyAlby]

EC have started to go down the route of Statutory Demands to try for Bankruptcy with some old MBNA accounts using Fairfax Solicitors.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/237488-mbna-account-sold-exerto-4.html