welcome finance letter today

[lawfordgirl]

Hi I received a letter today from welcome requesting under the cca that I tell them where the vehicle is located. I have had no default or termination of agreement and have paid over half so am aware that they cant legally just turn up and take vehicle so am confused whyn this letter has come out of the blue. The vehicle is wherever I am depending on time of day eg at work,shopping home etc so dont really knbow what to put in reply. cant understand why they ask as ive never hidden the vehicle and my address is the same as agreement. Any Views/advice??

Thanks in advance

[brassed-off-2]

Hi Lawfordgirl

 

Tell them nothing!!

 

If you hangfire somebody with more knowledge on the car aspect will be along shortly to offer advice, i'm afraid cars not my thing, only secured loans.

 

b-o-2

[Fester Tester]

I'd be very interested to know under which section of the CCA, they think they have a right to know where your vehiclei is at any given moment in time.

 

Exactly. They don't have any right. But I'd start being very careful about leaving it unattended from now on. Whilst I haven't heard of Welcome stooping to actually stealing a car, it's not beyond the bounds of possibiity to imagine that they are so desperate for cash that they MAY stoop to unlawful repossession.

 

Note the use of the word MAY, Welcome Visitors. I haven't actually accused you of anything. MAY being a word that you and your ilk like to bandy around when it comes to threats and bullying.

[postggj]

may stoop to unlawful reposession

 

they will and proud to say it

 

ive delt with two threads where welcome have done a illegal repo and welcome had to pay back every penny

[lawfordgirl]

Hi I received a letter today from welcome requesting under the cca that I tell them where the vehicle is located. I have had no default or termination of agreement and have paid over half so am aware that they cant legally just turn up and take vehicle so am confused whyn this letter has come out of the blue. The vehicle is wherever I am depending on time of day eg at work,shopping home etc so dont really knbow what to put in reply. cant understand why they ask as ive never hidden the vehicle and my address is the same as agreement. Any Views/advice??

Thanks in advance

 

Thanks for your replies, yes I thought they may try to just take it when left unattended, and am assuming that that would be illegal since I have paid over half. It would also require them to tresspass on my private property. They stated section 80 of cca. I just dont understand why they are asking as they have my address. Just wondering whether ifI dont reply and I have committed this offence does that then mean ive broke agreement and they then might have the right to take without court order?

[Fester Tester]

Yes, well before they start quoting S80, they might like to stop and have a read of the CCA 1974... particularly the bit about the need for a default notice.

Edited August 26, 2009 by Fester Tester

[Fester Tester]

OK, just dug out my copy of the CCA, and section 80 DOES require you to provide this information within 7 days. After 14 days of default, you have comitted an offence apparently. I wonder what it says in the 2006 amendments, if anything. Back in a mo.

 

Cheeky barstewards though. They expect YOU to comply with the CCA, but don't give a stuff themselves.

[Fester Tester]

Nope, S80 still stands. I'd give them the info, otherwise they COULD take you to court. Not sure what a judge would make of it, but hey ho.

 

Why not chuck a £1 postal order in with the letter and ask for a copy of your agreement as is your right under the CCA? Quid pro quo and all that

[lawfordgirl]

Ok thanks for your help, but one more question....what do i put for location of the vehicle as it at different places at different time?

tahnks

[42man]

Put that you are under no legal obligation to supply that information and ask under what law they are requesting this....

[T2upNorth]

Section 80:

 

80.—(1) Where a regulated agreement, other than a non-commercial agreement,

requires the debtor or hirer to keep goods to which the agreement relates in his

possession or control, he shall, within seven working days after he has received a

request in writing to that effect from the creditor or owner, tell the creditor or owner

where the goods are.

(2) If the debtor or hirer fails to comply with subsection (1), and the default continues

for 14 days, he commits an offence.

[Fester Tester]

I'd say that you are only required to indicate where it is normally parked, ie your address.

 

It is ludicrous to expect you to provide an itinerary of its movements.

[T2upNorth]

I'd say that you are only required to indicate where it is normally parked, ie your address.

 

It is ludicrous to expect you to provide an itinerary of its movements.

 

 

Absolutely - the registered keepers address should be more than enough to satisfy s80.

 

The question is though, why? Are they hinting that they may wish to repo without actually saying it? I'd certainly take steps to prevent that, just in case.

[Ibsys]

Hi I received a letter today from welcome requesting under the cca that I tell them where the vehicle is located. I have had no default or termination of agreement and have paid over half so am aware that they cant legally just turn up and take vehicle so am confused whyn this letter has come out of the blue. The vehicle is wherever I am depending on time of day eg at work,shopping home etc so dont really knbow what to put in reply. cant understand why they ask as ive never hidden the vehicle and my address is the same as agreement. Any Views/advice??

Thanks in advance

 

if you have had no default and you have paid more than the reqwuired amount then they DO need a court order to repossess. If they do not do this then you can sue them for damages, car back and costs. See below:

"Failure by a lender to observe strictly, the intricate requirements of the Act can lead to a loan being completely unenforceable with no right of restitution or other form of relief"

 

- Lord Justice Clarke, 2002

It works both ways. Serve them with a section 77/78 notice. Look at the CCA 1974 and print and send a letter with the requirements of this section. If they do not comply within 12 days, after 30 days the loan becomes unenforceable and you cannot be persued while the default exists. No court can then enforce the agreement. Turn the tables on them! 80% of agreements are unenforceable.

[Ibsys]

77.—(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for fixed sum credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of 15 new pence, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) The total sum paid under the agreement by the debtor;

(b) The total sum which has become payable under the agreement by the debtor but remains unpaid, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date when each became due: and

© The total sum which is to became payable under the agreement by the debtor, and the various amounts comprised in that total sum, with the date, or mode of determining the date, when each becomes due.

(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (l)©, he shall be taken to comply with that paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.

(4) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) He is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement; and

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence.

[Fester Tester]

15 New Pence?

 

A tad outdated, your copy of the CCA, methinks.

[42man]

(b) If the default continues for one month he commits an offence - This has been scrapped from the act....

[Ibsys]

15 New Pence?

 

A tad outdated, your copy of the CCA, methinks.

 

Yes it is just a bit outdated but the principal is the same;). A loan where a section 77/78 has not been complied with is still unenforcible and the offence has been removed which is why the lenders are going slow. You can get you loans cancelled in most cases but now the lenders have "twigged on" as to what is going on.

[Fester Tester]

HAHA. That's not why they are going slow... they've ALWAYS failed to comply for yonks for the most part. And that's because, for the most part, they either don't HAVE an agreement, or it is nonsense.

 

Just to clarify though. Agreements signed after April 2007 are not automatically precluded from being enforced under s127(3). It just means that they need a court to enforce it.

 

But if there IS no agreement, what's the chances of a judge agreeing to enforce the agreement?

 

Ibsys, I'd get hold of a copy of the 2006 amendments if I were you.

[Ibsys]

HAHA. That's not why they are going slow... they've ALWAYS failed to comply for yonks for the most part. And that's because, for the most part, they either don't HAVE an agreement, or it is nonsense.

 

Just to clarify though. Agreements signed after April 2007 are not automatically precluded from being enforced under s127(3). It just means that they need a court to enforce it.

 

But if there IS no agreement, what's the chances of a judge agreeing to enforce the agreement?

 

Ibsys, I'd get hold of a copy of the 2006 amendments if I were you.

 

CCa 1974 has to be legible, must have all the prescribed terms in it, interest rate amounts payable and many other things. Up to 80% of agreements are flawed. To have these loans wiped/cancelled takes around 6 to 12 months and that is only due to the speed of the lender. it is also more difficult for the litigant in person to attempt to contest an agreement as lenders now use solicitors and barristers in court. Anyone who wishes to contest an agreement should use a company specialising in this work and a company who is regulated by the Ministry of Justice. Whatch out for section 60 -61. section 65 needs a judge to enforce it and section 127 is also important. Companies who do this work correctly first approach the lender and serve a section 77/78 and then do a 28 page audit from which the agreement can be assessed as flawed or not. If they take the case and if flawed, then after the initial fee, no other charge should be payable. And finally, if the loan is unenforceable, the credit rating will not relect any adverse history and I am sure you will know why that is.

[lawfordgirl]

Ok thanks for all your help, will send letter today saying where its kept, can anyone direct me to the letter I need to ask for sar or whatever it is that costs £1. thanks

[42man]

Hi LG....the SAR costs £10 - send postal orders to the Data Compliance Manager at the head office - (send all correspondence recorded/guaranteed delivery) the SAR is here - (Number 11) - The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

 

The CCA request costs £1 (again send postal orders) and recorded/guaranteed delivery - Number 8 in the link above

[Fester Tester]

CCa 1974 has to be legible, must have all the prescribed terms in it, interest rate amounts payable and many other things. Up to 80% of agreements are flawed. To have these loans wiped/cancelled takes around 6 to 12 months and that is only due to the speed of the lender. it is also more difficult for the litigant in person to attempt to contest an agreement as lenders now use solicitors and barristers in court. Anyone who wishes to contest an agreement should use a company specialising in this work and a company who is regulated by the Ministry of Justice. Whatch out for section 60 -61. section 65 needs a judge to enforce it and section 127 is also important. Companies who do this work correctly first approach the lender and serve a section 77/78 and then do a 28 page audit from which the agreement can be assessed as flawed or not. If they take the case and if flawed, then after the initial fee, no other charge should be payable. And finally, if the loan is unenforceable, the credit rating will not relect any adverse history and I am sure you will know why that is.

 

Pardon me Lawfordgirl, but I need to continue the hijack of your thread for a while.

 

Ibsy, you are talking complete testicles. Mutch of what you say is pretty self evident, and I cannot help but feel you are trying to make it sound confusing for your own, as yet unknown, reasons. I have absolutely no idea where you get your figures from, but it seems a fairly safe bet that you have been taken in by the misleading buffalo droppings that CMC's are prone to advertise.

 

To clarify, you do NOT need to involve a solicitor or claims management company to challenge your agreements. It is a very simple thing to do. Merely arm yourself with a copy of the CCA, INCLUDING the 2006 amendments, and everything you need to know is in there.

 

As you rightly suggest, 127(3) is very powerful in cases where the agreement falls down for whatever reason. But it is important to know WHY an agreement is unenforcable in order to defend yourself, in court if necessary. Too many people take advice on here from people who tell them their agreement does not contain prescribed terms, for instance, without actually bothering their lazy backsides to research and CONFIRM what they have been told.

 

And for agreements after April 2007, S127(3) does not mean that a judge is automatically precluded from enforcing an agreement that does not comply with the CCA. It doesn't mean that he WILL enforce it, but it is more likely that he will base his judgement on how prejudicial the agreement is to the debtor, based on what is wrong with it.

 

As for adverse credit being recorded... well, any CMC that tells you that your credit rating won't be affected by getting an agreement declared unenforcable is talking through his rectum. Creditors WILL continue to report defaults, even when a S10 notice is issued, and it WILL be a very long battle to have the default removed, if indeed you manage it at all.

 

UNLESS the test case due to be heard sometime in the future determines itherwise, that default will sit around for a long time hurting you.

 

I hope that clears up some of your obvious confusion, Ibsys. Apologies for what might seem like a rant, but your post needed correction, before some poor sucker actually thought that it was wise to throw 20% and upwards of a claim at the vultures that the CMC's are. Let's face it, if you get say £2,000 written off, you will then owe some back street solicitor £400 or more. And where will most folks find that sort of money? If they had it lying around, it's unlikely they would be in a financial mess in the first place.

 

Rant over.