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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Claim Stayed – Due to Unenforceable CCA Test Cases.


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PR Fire | Financial >> Landmark Consumer Victory in High Court Test Cases

Good stuff there from Cartel. Even though Cartel got ripped to bits in Manchester it seems like they are getting some really good publicity. I was gutted with the Waksman ruling initially but Im now most positive about it. I dont see a way out of this one for the banks.:D

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Good stuff there from Cartel. Even though Cartel got ripped to bits in Manchester it seems like they are getting some really good publicity. I was gutted with the Waksman ruling initially but Im now most positive about it. I dont see a way out of this one for the banks.:D

 

this ruling totally epitomises the whole industry... especially the intial negativity from some, followed by eternal jubilation.

 

bottom line, unless they repeal the act.. there will never be a way out for them.... granted there will be a level of mitigation for them, but on a very small scale.

 

the grand scale victories for them come from conning joe public with spin.

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Are there any honest professional people left in the Western Democracies?

 

oilyrag.

Well I am professional being a qualified electrican by trade but nope cannot say 100% honest. IF I can make an easy few quid do you think I am going not to? :D:D:D

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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Has anyone got a link to the case law (referred to in Waxmans judgment) that the bank's seem to be relying on in relation to the "true copy" argument?

 

PW

An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. <br />

Winston Churchill

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Burchell v Thompson

 

 

Its not online as its an old case.

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

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court bundles for dummies

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The manchester cases only concerned responses to s77-79 requests and have no impact whatsoever on the requirement to produce original agreements in court. A copy, i.e. photocopy or microfiche, might be acceptable in court if the original has been lost, but a reconstituted one will never be acceptable if the consumer knows enough to challenge it - or even ask that the agreement be produced in the first place.

 

Thanks RMW

 

I realise that and thanks for pointing it out. I meant to type 'copy documents' so is a copy acceptable in court if the original has been deliberately destroyed?

 

For example: there are many instances on threads where only the front of the agreement has been provided and the lender is relying on standard T & C. which would have been overleaf or attached, as the original has been destroyed.

 

I realise that a S77/78 request can still be satisfied but I cannot find any cases that have been won or lost in court on this argument. Is it a fact that not a single one has been tested in court.

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i have emailed a friend who may be able to help.

 

will keep you posted by PM

 

 

The banks had to provide a copy of the case for the trial to all parties so I'm sure that Baggio with his legal connections will be aqble to provide it.

You may receive different advice to your query as people have different experiences and opinions. Please use your own judgement in deciding whose advice to take.

 

If in doubt seek advice from a qualified insured professional. Any advice I have offered you is done so on an informal basis, without prejudice or liability.

 

If you think I have been helpful PLEASE click the scales

 

court bundles for dummies

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Consumer Credit Act Guidance

Law News

Written by David Swarbrick

Much has been made by claims companies of the ability to avoid liability under loans where for example a bank has been unable to locate and supply a copy of the agreement. This apparent breach of the Consumer Credit Act has received much judicial consideration, and as a threat to lenders, its teeth have been drawn. A new and significant decision is Carey v HSBC Bank plc, Yunis v Barclays Bank plc and similar - QBD - 23-Dec-09 - Wakeman J - Banking - Consumer

The court considered the effects in detail where a bank was unable to comply with a request under section 78 of the 1974 Act to provide a copy of the agreement signed by the client. Held: The court set out to give guidance on these issues. A photocopy of the signed document was not required, and a reconstruction would do, though as matter of good practice and so as not to mislead the debtor it is clearly desirable that the creditor should explain that it is providing a reconstituted as opposed to a physical copy of the executed agreement. The document produced need not be in a condition such that if it were signed it would be satisfy the requirements for regulation. What mattered was that it provided what was needed clearly and without misleading the debtor. Also, regulation 7 requires a copy of the executed agreement in its original form as well as a statement of the terms as they are at the time of the request.

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s. 61 s. 78 s. 189

The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983

Cases Cited: In re Hewer 01-Jan-82; Wilson and others -v- Secretary of State for Trade and Industry; Wilson -v- First County Trust Ltd (No 2) HL 10-Jul-03; Dimond -v- Lovell HL 12-May-00; Burchell v Thompson CA 01-Jan-20; Barras -v- Aberdeen Steam Trawling & Fishing Co HL 17-Mar-33; Lloyds Bank v Mitchell CC 13-Sep-09; Huntpast v Leadbetter 01-Jan-93; McGinn -v- Grangewood Securities Ltd CA 23-Apr-02; Al Tamimi v Khodari CA 08-Oct-09; McGuffick v The Royal Bank of Scotland Plc ComC 06-Oct-09; Khodari -v- Al Tamimi QBD 18-Dec-08; [2009] EWHC 3417 (QB)

23-Dec-09 Judiciary http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/docs/judgments_guidance/judgment-carey-v-hsbc.pdf

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Has anyone got a link to the case law (referred to in Waxmans judgment) that the bank's seem to be relying on in relation to the "true copy" argument?

 

PW

Think you can get the general idea from this thread. Mainly post 7 is of interest. Also post 17 and post 20. (In respect of post 17 may I add a ":D")

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/227605-guidance-cca-templates-esp.html

If I have helped you or made you laugh by some witty remark and brightened your day................ the scales to click are over to your left hand side. :D:D

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Brilliant stuff, Mystery1 !

This is what we need - properly and objectively researched material that goes to the root of the policies behind the CCA. I have to restrict my input (to comply with the overriding requirement for objectivity) to that of which I have first hand knowledge or that which I may repeat on oath as 'kosher'. I'm still outraged that the Court entertains these discussions about recreating CCA Agreements where the CCA is itself clear - the problem is that the secondary legislation has really complicated the issue, as Mr Bennion opines because the drafter did not understand the CCA itself.

Clear records have to be kept for a multitude of reasons including the moneylaundering concerns you illustrate here.How can the Courts overlook "best possible practice" and the tort issues that eg Nick20054 raises ? How many other businesses may recreate records to suit their own purposes - as we saw with PaulW's case - well done, Paul!

 

Why on Earth do the courts not refer back to Lord Crowther when determining all of these CCA issues ? Why does the Common Law still presume a position of authoritative dominance in determining the CCA when Lord Crowther (and Bennion) make plain that the common law into consumer credit was repealed by the CCA - meaning that once we see terms that are caught by Section 8 (Regulated Agreements) - and we have a regulated agreement on our hands - thereinafter only statutory tests (those found in the CCA) are to be applied by the Courts - including the transfer of the case to the County Court under S 141 (Jurisdiction) - cases commenced and heard and determined in the High Court are 'improperly brought' as defined by Section 141(2) and therefore unlawful - why does nobody challenge the Common Law Courts under Jurisdiction (S 141) ?

John Story smilie.gif

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

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Thanks RMW

 

I realise that and thanks for pointing it out. I meant to type 'copy documents' so is a copy acceptable in court if the original has been deliberately destroyed?

 

For example: there are many instances on threads where only the front of the agreement has been provided and the lender is relying on standard T & C. which would have been overleaf or attached, as the original has been destroyed.

 

I realise that a S77/78 request can still be satisfied but I cannot find any cases that have been won or lost in court on this argument. Is it a fact that not a single one has been tested in court.

 

Technically in court the creditor would have to produce the original agreement. I say technically because, for various reasons, the judge might allow a copy. One such reason might be that it's on the small claims track and the strict rules of evidence don't apply, another reason might be that the creditor's legal team persuade the judge that it's reasonable for them only to provide a copy.

So far as I know, this has yet to be actually tested in court but there are a couple of threads on this forum where creditors have been ordered to produce the original. I don't think any of them have got to the final hearing yet though.

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RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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Thanks Angrycat (Top Cat !)

I have now read the full (!!!) Judgment from HHJ Waksman QC. It's quite clear that he addresses the S 78 position only within that Judgment. He talks of ancilliary claims as to unenforceability as "speculative" and possible "abuses of process" only because the creditor has not sought to enforce a regulated agreement - he makes it plain that the duty to provide a properly excuted agreement to enable enforcement remains. Well, that's how I read him !!

 

You see, we had no written agreements at all in Story that contained the terms of the regulated agreements that feature (£12k),yet the bank effectively sought and was granted enforcement of an IEA in relation to (at least) the 3 regulated agreements that were refinanced verbally in Story many, many times over before Mr Jackson was moved from the branch and his policies (to not document regulated agreements) emerged (and the bank started threatening all his clients).

 

Thanks again for the material ! It was very helpful indeed !

 

I am to take it up with the Court of Appeal (again)

John Story smilie.gif

www.ruinedbynatwest.com

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Thanks again RMW

 

It would appear that I am correct in thinking that it has never been tested. I have been following several threads, one is by Humbleman vs HFC and the case is in court tomorrow. I think it is fast track and they do not have an original or an exact copy of the full agreement.

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Thanks again RMW

 

It would appear that I am correct in thinking that it has never been tested. I have been following several threads, one is by Humbleman vs HFC and the case is in court tomorrow. I think it is fast track and they do not have an original or an exact copy of the full agreement.

 

interesting, do we think they turn up and settle before the hearing?

 

keep us posted, pedross

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Has anyone got a link to the case law (referred to in Waxmans judgment) that the bank's seem to be relying on in relation to the "true copy" argument?

 

PW

Well done and some PW, this thread may interest you "mbna application form " professorgbr they sent him a mock up . This was in a pre action request a cpr31.16 or something similar from his solicitors who dropped the case on the basis of an affidafit claiming what they supplied was as the original they had also raised rates by a factor of 4 . Like you John he had the original we were waiting on advice from his solicitor who does not seem keen to pursue ? We were intending to complain to OFT, SRA and maybe others .
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Well done and some PW, this thread may interest you "mbna application form " professorgbr they sent him a mock up . This was in a pre action request a cpr31.16 or something similar from his solicitors who dropped the case on the basis of an affidafit claiming what they supplied was as the original they had also raised rates by a factor of 4 . Like you John he had the original we were waiting on advice from his solicitor who does not seem keen to pursue ? We were intending to complain to OFT, SRA and maybe others .

 

can you name and shame the solictiors involved?

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interesting, do we think they turn up and settle before the hearing?

 

keep us posted, pedross

 

I thought so but I was wrong - the claimant turned up with the wrong T & C and won, its unbelievable. You will find the thread in new posts.

 

humbleman needs help Baggio if you have any ideas.

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I thought so but I was wrong - the claimant turned up with the wrong T & C and won, its unbelievable. You will find the thread in new posts.

 

humbleman needs help Baggio if you have any ideas.

 

Quite Pedross. Some have been arguing that OCs can turn up with any old nonsense and the courts will enforce it. We have been saying "of course not - rules of evidence apply". Not in this case :mad::-x:-x:mad:

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Quite Pedross. Some have been arguing that OCs can turn up with any old nonsense and the courts will enforce it. We have been saying "of course not - rules of evidence apply". Not in this case :mad::-x:-x:mad:

 

The humbleman case makes the whole of this and every other thread on the site meaningless.

 

If a judge can pass judgement on the 'balance of probabilities' what hope is there for any of us?

 

I am shocked and appalled that we live in a supposed democracy and this type of activity goes on inside a court room.

 

I find it hard to believe this can happen, it beggars belief.

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