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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
    • No! What has happened is that your pix were up-to-date: 5 hours' maximum stay and £100 PCN. The lazy solicitors have sent ancient pictures: 4 hours' maximum stay and £60 PCN. Don't let on!  Let them be hoisted by their own lazy petard in the court hearing (if they don't bottle before).
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AMEX - have issued claim papers-castella


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Thread started for Castella:)

 

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Hi everyone

Amex have issued claim papers through the court recently.

Subsequently I have issued a CPR 31.14, requesting a true copy of the agreement , the default & termination notices. Amex have asked for 28 days to supply the documentation 'due to the methods of storage any further available documents could take up to 28 days to obtain'

I have sent back the court form stating I am defending the total sum.

I have also sent the court a copy of the CPR 31.14 I sent plus a copy of Amex's reply requesting 28 days & saying they would allow 14 days for me to file my defence after sending the paperwork ref the 31.14 request.

I will post up a copy of the application form which Amex purport is the agreement in a few days or so.

All help very much appreciated. Anyone got any thoughts?

Regards castella

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Hi everyone

Amex have issued claim papers through the court recently.

Subsequently I have issued a CPR 31.14, requesting a true copy of the agreement , the default & termination notices. Amex have asked for 28 days to supply the documentation 'due to the methods of storage any further available documents could take up to 28 days to obtain'

I have sent back the court form stating I am defending the total sum.

I have also sent the court a copy of the CPR 31.14 I sent plus a copy of Amex's reply requesting 28 days & saying they would allow 14 days for me to file my defence after sending the paperwork ref the 31.14 request.

I will post up a copy of the application form which Amex purport is the agreement in a few days or so.

All help very much appreciated. Anyone got any thoughts?

Regards castella

 

Dear Castella

 

Aproximately when was the account opened?

 

Have you received a Default Notice or a Termination Notice?

 

Can you post up the claim details minus any personal details?

 

You will probably need to submit a holding defence, I assume this is in an English court?

 

Was the calim issued through Brachers?

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Castella, can you please also post up the particulars of the claim.

 

When was the date of issue so we can keep on top of the time line, which is:

 

From date of issue to service = 5 days

from then you have 14 days to acknowledge service of claim

from then you have 14 days to enter a defence.

 

33 days from date of issue:)

 

BTW, I am moving you to legal issues forum

 

Oops, just read your post properly and discover you have the timeline in hand.

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Hi Monty 2007 thanks for the reply

Account was opened in 05

Default Notice was issued not allowing enough days 'ie :The payment due on your account must be received within fourteen calendar days from the date of this default notice'. -Yes it has been terminated.

Claim details are taken from Amex terms & conditions stating :

2.'the following are expressed terms of the Agreement

3. using the card. 8. Interest charges. 10. Statements & Payments.

11. Default & other charges. 17. Liability & Refunds. 18, Varying & transferring the agreement.

3. on ?? 07 the claimant served a D. N. on the defendant

4. The claimant subsequently terminated the agreement.

5.The defendant incurred charges on the card from 05 to 07.

6. The claimant is entitled to interest on the sum of£???

7. Alternatively the claimant claims interest on the total balance pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act1984.

8.And the claimant claims 1.£?? 2. Contractual Int. 3.Further Int. 4.Costs

Yes it is an English Court & No the claim was not via Brachers

I have asked the court to let me know on the filing of a defence.

All assistance greatly appreciated and welcomed

Regards castella

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Hi Monty 2007 thanks for the reply

Account was opened in 05

Default Notice was issued not allowing enough days 'ie :The payment due on your account must be received within fourteen calendar days from the date of this default notice'. -Yes it has been terminated.

Claim details are taken from Amex terms & conditions stating :

2.'the following are expressed terms of the Agreement

3. using the card. 8. Interest charges. 10. Statements & Payments.

11. Default & other charges. 17. Liability & Refunds. 18, Varying & transferring the agreement.

3. on ?? 07 the claimant served a D. N. on the defendant

4. The claimant subsequently terminated the agreement.

5.The defendant incurred charges on the card from 05 to 07.

6. The claimant is entitled to interest on the sum of£???

7. Alternatively the claimant claims interest on the total balance pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act1984.

8.And the claimant claims 1.£?? 2. Contractual Int. 3.Further Int. 4.Costs

Yes it is an English Court & No the claim was not via Brachers

I have asked the court to let me know on the filing of a defence.

All assistance greatly appreciated and welcomed

Regards castella

 

Getting visibility of the Application/Agreement would be useful, did you keep the envolope for the DN.

 

Who issued the Claim if it was not Brachers?

 

Westminster or Mishcon de Reya? They are the usual Amex sols.

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Hi Monty 2007--It wasn't any of those solicitors you have mentioned I will let you know by pm once I get a little further on if that's okay.

 

I will put on the application form, default notice, and particulars of claim on or before tuesday hopefully (it takes a long time to do it on the computer I have), once photobucket is in tandem with my computer if that's okay.

 

I have the original notice with an amex envelope

 

regards castella

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I have posted above the application which Amex state is the agreement you can see it is stamped & signed 4th June 2005. In the statement of claim ,the claim states 'pursuant to an agreement dated 22 May 2005 between the claimant & defendant.You will see that the card was first used dated 1st June 2005.(the first statement states 27may to 26 June 2005) which is before the signature and date stamp of the Amex employee.

Has anyone got any thoughts about this and the dates please.

 

Also enclosed is the default notice dated 17 September 07 which gives 14 days from the date of the notice, and also the cancellation notice which is dated 5th October 07.

Also enclosed is the statement during the time of the cancellation which shows a balance of £4800plus.

Also the particulars of claim from amex

All thoughts very much welcomed

Regards castella

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Nice application....... no prescribed terms on it though :-D :-D :-D cant believe they have havent attempted to show any t&c that supposedly were on the back?

 

Default Notice, you've already spotted no 14 clear days to rectify

 

Sums... dont seem to add up, why the jump from the last statement to the amount on the claim form (before the interest) not their usual file referral fee or something like that?

 

They cant claim stat s69 interest on a regulated agreement claim and not sure if they can claim the contractual interest unless they warn you prior to court claim. Think thats governed in CCA2006 so I'll let someone more knowledgeable confirm that.

 

All in all Amex have cocked up, with a good judge that should get chucked out and you should receive a nice wad of costs.

 

S.

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Hi everyone

Can anyone please tell me when a credit card agreement actually commences please.(According to the regulations if appropriate).

 

At post 9 in the statement of claim Amex are stating that the purported agreement commenced with the signing of the application form.(22May05)

 

This was prior to acceptance for the card by Amex.

It is clearly on the application form a date stamp of 4 June 05 from Amex.

 

So what would the actual date be, it cannot be the 22 May 05 as is stated in the statement of claim (at post 9 above).

 

All help appreciated

Regards castella

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Hi everyone

Can anyone please tell me when a credit card agreement actually commences please.(According to the regulations if appropriate).

 

At post 9 in the statement of claim Amex are stating that the purported agreement commenced with the signing of the application form.(22May05)

 

This was prior to acceptance for the card by Amex.

It is clearly on the application form a date stamp of 4 June 05 from Amex.

 

So what would the actual date be, it cannot be the 22 May 05 as is stated in the statement of claim (at post 9 above).

 

All help appreciated

Regards castella

 

Dear Castella

 

The dates are not that important, they can always change their PoC. The key document is the Application form since they are claiming this is an enforcable Agreement, did they send a copy of the back portion?

 

Amex usually just copied the front section and discarded the original without also copying the reverse. BUT not always. The document that you posted does not contain the prescribed terms.

 

The DN also looks to be incorrect since, given service, they have not given you enough time to remedy the alleged default - did you keep the envolope?

 

Your defence should be a standard one, the enforcability of the "Agreement" and the DN. Have a look through the other Amex threads and their defence statements.

Edited by Monty2007
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Castella, looks to me as though you have a pretty good defence handed to you by Amex:)

 

When do you have to submit ?

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PLEASE DO NOT ASK ME TO GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU PROVIDE A LINK TO YOUR THREAD THEN I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER ADVICE THERE:D

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Hi everyone

I think that there is some relevance with regards the dates -

the card was first used on the 1st June 05

the signature and date stamp on the application form /purported agreement is 4th June 05.

The card being used prior to the purported agreement being signed and date stamped/executed by Amex.

 

The application form had nothing on the back when sent from Amex.

 

A seperate booklet which stated this is a copy of your agreement for you to keep was sent.

 

This booklet does differ significantly from the Conditions sent by Amex's solicitor several months ago which in turn do differ significantly from the set of cut and paste formulated platinum conditions as included with the particulars of claim, which are illegible, in their attempts to put it all on an A4 sized one page document. (I will not put these on the thread at the moment until after receiving the response to the CPR 31.14)

 

I have requested under a CPR 31.14 details of the agreement, default notice and termination notice.

 

Amex through their solicitors have requested that they need upto 28 days rather than 7 days, to trace the documentation and will give 14 days from service by them of the documents for me to file a defence.

 

I have written to the court with copies of the CPR 31.14 and the claimant's solicitors response requesting more time, and asking do they require me to file a defence within the timescales, or when I receive the responses/paperwork to the CPR31.14.

I have as yet not had a reply from the court, but it is only 6 working days since the letter was sent to them.

 

The claim was issued on the 6th of July 09, but not posted out from the court until the 14th of July and not received until the 16th July.

 

Thanks for all your thoughts and constructive help.

regards Castella.

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Hi everyone

can someone please confirm when the agreement commences please.

Is it the date when you sign the application form?

Or the date when the application is approved and the credit card company date stamp it and sign it?

Or is it the date they send out the card with the executed agreement copy?

I need to know positively on this as I have to send in my defence which I am formulating at present, early next week --all help greatly appreciated.

Regards castella

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I would say that the contract starts when you have signed the agreement/application.

 

I would think it is irrelevant when you actually start to use the card in that you might have it for say a couple of weeks or even months before you start to use it (hard to believe I know, but possible).

 

It is also irrelevant as to when the document was signed by the creditor as long as it IS signed by both you and them.

 

I am assuming at this point you are putting in a holding/embarrassed defence if you do not have the documents you require ie the DN/TN and agreement .

 

The agreement appears to have no prescribed terms so that is going to be your main attack plan, isnt it ?

 

I wonder if it might be worth raising the timescale on the Claim form. It is quite odd that the date of issue is 6th, and not posted out until the 14th. Do you have the envelope with the date stamp on it ?

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Hi there everyone

Amex have sent back their replies to the cpr 31.14 request.

amex have attempted to cut and paste some terms and conditions to the back of an application form in a hopeless attempt to conform/comply.

Is this attempt at trying to deceive under the CPR rulles punishable in any way does anyone know please? Its a blatant attempt and does differ considerably from ones already sent and stated to be true copies from Amex via a debt collector etc

All help appreciated

Regards Castella

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Hi there everyone

Amex have sent back their replies to the cpr 31.14 request.

amex have attempted to cut and paste some terms and conditions to the back of an application form in a hopeless attempt to conform/comply.

Is this attempt at trying to deceive under the CPR rulles punishable in any way does anyone know please? Its a blatant attempt and does differ considerably from ones already sent and stated to be true copies from Amex via a debt collector etc

All help appreciated

Regards Castella

 

In theory the ones sent in response to a CPR 31.14 request should be the ones relied on in court, however thats down to a judge at the end of the day on what they will accept as evidence and how delivered. What is important tho is the true copy ones are different again and as such it should cause confusion on what is the correct agreement/application and do Amex actually know themselves what the real agreement/application looked like at time of signing. Should all strengthen your case in my opinion.

 

S.

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Amex through their solicitors have requested that they need upto 28 days rather than 7 days, to trace the documentation and will give 14 days from service by them of the documents for me to file a defence.

 

I have written to the court with copies of the CPR 31.14 and the claimant's solicitors response requesting more time, and asking do they require me to file a defence within the timescales, or when I receive the responses/paperwork to the CPR31.14.

I have as yet not had a reply from the court, but it is only 6 working days since the letter was sent to them.

 

 

You have done the right thing by applying to the court re. the extra time allowance & you MUST get the confirmation from the court or put your defence in at the 28 day mark.

 

It wouldn't surprise me if this was a deliberate attempt by Amex to lull you into a false sense of security & then they bang in for SJ on the 28 day mark. Stay alert.

Any knowledge I possess or advice I proffer is based solely on my experiences in the University of Life. Please make your own assessment of legality, risks & costs before taking any action.

 

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It's quite obvious from recent cases that Amex are following up issuing an N1 that is defended with a N244 application for summary judgement.

 

As your N1 was issued on the 7th and not mailed until the 14th, it seems the court of issue is behind on their paper work.

 

I agree that it it imperative that you speak to the court to confirm the possible extension to the date on which your defence should be filed. If you cannot get agreement, then you should enter a holding defence and state you reserve the right to enter an emended version once Amex's solicitors have responded to the 31.14 request.

 

The agreement looks like their usual poor excuse for an enforceable agreement, the DN is true to form with Amex (useless to them) in that it does not allow time for service (CPR 6).

 

So they have terminated on the strength of a useless DN. Therefore they are only allowed to claim the arrears (£232) and you have a counterclaim for unlawful termination.

 

Don't play games with them. They are like a cornered wild animal at the moment (ie, they're dangerous) - you must treat this seriously. There is all the help you could need available here.

 

I would defend and enter my own N244 seeking their claim to be struck out as it shows no prospect of succeeding due to the non-compliant CCA and faulty DN.

The REAL Axis of evil: Banks, Credit Card Companies & Credit Reference Agencies.

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CPR 15.5 allows parties to agree to extend the deadline for filing a defence, the onus is upon the Defendant to notify the court of such arrangement.

 

Requests pursuant to CPR 31.14 can only cover disclosure and inspection of documents actually referred to within the pleadings.

 

Dont forget, despite the fact that it is normal for parties to actually disclose copies or photocopies to be more precise, there is a provision within the rules for you to inspect the original document which the copy is taken from.

 

I have just served a written request on MBNA for a client and they are panicking at the mo, so it can be very helpful

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi everyone

Defence now finished and going in now

Amex under CPR 31.14 have sent further copies of ten pages of terms & conditions in attempted compliance to the CPR 31.14,

so in consequence of their failings:

I will be writing to Amex's solicitors requesting a right to inspect a document, with ref to cpr 31.15 and under 31.14 --a party may inspect a document mentioned in :

(a) a statement of case.

31.15 where a party has a right to inspect a document -

(a) that party must give the party who disclosed the document written notice of his wish to inspect it.

(b) the party who disclosed the document must permit inspection not more than 7 days after the date on which he received the notice.

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