Robinson Way CCJ/CO Cap1 card debt - was unable to respond - now want to set aside **LOST** - appealed - **WON** Claim reset - **WON - Case dismissed**

[RobinWayRobinme]

Thanx for that PT, will have a letter off by end of weekend. Can you point me in the right direction of what I should do if they ignore that letter?

 

I have also, using your sticky, made a part 18 request which they have answered and confirmed they do not have the original credit agreement. I asked for info re default notice as it wasn't pleaded in POC. They have referred to the date a default notice was issued, but did not attach a copy to their reply. Am I correct in making a 31.14 request for a copy of the default notice? When I won my appeal, part of the order was for me to file a defence by specified date. Would it be OK to try to agree an extension of the date as to prepare a proper defence I would need them to answer a 2nd part 18 request as the first one was not answered with clarity for one question and I require a copy of Default notice?

 

I know my one question has led to a couple of others, but your help would be greatly appreciated.

R

 

refusal to pay is contempt of court, punishable by imprisonment in extreme cases

 

You could contact your opponents and remind them of this;)

[atom02]

Hi Robin,

 

Have seen something on here about sending the bailiffs in following the court enforcement process. I believe there is a form to use and a fee to pay (check with the court office) which will be added to the money you are trying to recover. Before taking this step, it will be prudent to check the company's public accounts (if available) before investing any more money chasing them.

 

Hope this helps.

 

atom

[citizenB]

Hi Robin,

 

I see pt has popped in and offered some advice.

 

I think you need to send them a reminder letter just slipping in what pt has advised:D

 

Give them just 7 days to obey the court order in respect of your costs.

 

Then I guess you would issue a claim against them for that amount, or perhaps instruct bailiffs.

 

I am still searching for the thread where this has been discussed before.

[citizenB]

Does the following help, Robin ?

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/news/forms/docs/ex321_0406.pdf

 

[vjohn82]

My opinion...

 

Court orders are worth absolutely nothing outside of court. You can try and make them pay by sending letters etc but if they are ignoring you at this stage there is nothing you can do other than to take it back to court for enforcement.

 

This means more time/expense etc...

 

There are routes to enforce the order via the court but this depends what your favourite flavour is... you can look at a Warrant of Execution if you want to send the bailiffs in... a Garnishee Order if you know their bank account details

 

But the route for enforcement is always through the courts (it's how they make their money )

[RobinWayRobinme]

Thanks to PT, CitizenB and VJ for your input on the non payment of costs issue. My understanding is that the remedies open to me are all normal enforcement remedies available when judgment is obtained (what they try to use on us) plus the contempt of court angle.

 

I'll write to other side, pointing out by not complying with order theyb are in contempt of court, giving them 7 days otherwise further action will be taken without any further reference to them.

 

I'll let the forum know the outcome.

R

[RobinWayRobinme]

Update on costs. They arrived today after contempt of court letter. Thanks PT your suggestion worked perfectly.

 

Just like opinion now on next stage. I have followed your guidnace in your sticky PT on Part 18 and 31.14 Requests. From Requests and Replies I have the following:

 

1. They do not have the original executed agreement.

 

2. They only have a copy of the front of the application for credit card/agreement (NO BACK).

 

3. they have provided a copy of T&C's that have no link to agreement in 1 & 2.

 

4. They rely upon a DN but don't have a copy.

 

5. They rely upon a "legal assignment" NOT and "absolute assignment" or Equitable assignment". (DON'T MAKE SENSE THIS AS I THOUGHT A LEGAL ASSIGNMENT MUST BE ABSOLUTE).

 

6. They rely upon a NOA but have no proof of service.

 

7. They rely upon R. 3(2) of Cancellation NOtices & Copy Docs Regs 1983 (Seems load of Bullsh*t to me).

 

Question is, what should be my next move. Not sure whether to go for strikeout, or defend, or apply order for disclosure on DN (unless order) that they say they will provide at some time if they can find it. If you are looking in PT your views would be very much appreciated.

R

[pt2537]

now theres a surprise huh, mention contempt and sphincters start twitching heavily

 

[RobinWayRobinme]

Definately done the trick. Thanks PT.

 

Any views on what I have discovered on Part 18 and 31.14 Requests?

R

 

now theres a surprise huh, mention contempt and sphincters start twitching heavily

 

[pt2537]

ok,

 

Procedurally they are in difficulty,

 

Did they plead a default notice in their particulars of claim? if they did then they need to either disclose it or account for where it went, if they have never had the notice then they are in real problems as they signed a statement of truth

[RobinWayRobinme]

No it wasn't in POC. The question was asked in a Part 18 request what date the defendant was served with a DN as required by CCA. By their Reply they gave the date, obviously withy statement of truth and by 31.14 request they confirmed they did not have a copy

R

ok,

 

Procedurally they are in difficulty,

 

Did they plead a default notice in their particulars of claim? if they did then they need to either disclose it or account for where it went, if they have never had the notice then they are in real problems as they signed a statement of truth

[pt2537]

No it wasn't in POC. The question was asked in a Part 18 request what date the defendant was served with a DN as required by CCA. By their Reply they gave the date, obviously withy statement of truth and by 31.14 request they confirmed they did not have a copy

R

so, you have leave to file your defence, it seems that, the answers to part 18 allow you to defend the matter fairly easy

 

I do not think a strike out would succeed here, the judge may consider that there are triable issues here

[RobinWayRobinme]

Thanx pt. Are there any suggestions to include in the defence?

R

 

so, you have leave to file your defence, it seems that, the answers to part 18 allow you to defend the matter fairly easy

 

I do not think a strike out would succeed here, the judge may consider that there are triable issues here

[RobinWayRobinme]

Just a quick follow up on my last post. Your stiky's PT on using part 18 and 31.14 requests are first class. I have seen how they work and enables you to get info and docs (or not so with DN in my case) and flushes out info. So thanx again PT. Yes have leave to file defence and thats my next job.

R

[citizenB]

Excellent news, Robin:D

 

Sorry, unable to help with your other query.

[RobinWayRobinme]

Started to put together my defence and have a question. On reviewing my research notes, I have come across something that (I think) PT posted. It said

 

such as hfo v Patel

 

which says, if the agreement is improperly executed then the lender needs to plead for an order under 65 and in default of this the claim fails. the lender cannot simply seek a CCJ if the agreement is not properly executed

 

PT, or anyone else, can you help on this as I can't find HFO v Patel and would like an opinion on when this card is played (i.e. in defence or skeleton argument) as claimant has not pleaded for an order under s.65.

 

R

[RobinWayRobinme]

Hi all

 

Question on Consumer Credit(Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. If a creditor is making a claim can they rely upon copies regs when providing a copy as evidence supporting their claim?

 

My view on this is copies regs is no good as they are bringing a claim and must comply with normal law on evidence as copies regs states that it relates to copies "under any provision of the Act". A Claimant(creditor) is having to provide evidence (executed agreement) to support their claim and this is not providing a copy "under any provision of the Act".

 

Am I heading in right direction with this?

R

[straftat]

you need to start your own thread m8

[RobinWayRobinme]

Hi flaminscoty

 

As advised by straftat, you need to start your own thread. This will keep any advice in one place. Place a link here and I'll help where I can (Maybe site team can transfer your post to save you typing all again). I fully sympathis with you as your story seems similar to mine. In the meantime, to try to put your mind at ease a little, many on the forum have had charging orders against them, me included. Its not the end of the world and doesn't mean it leads to repossession.

R

[RobinWayRobinme]

Bump for my earlier post below. Any views

R

Hi all

 

Question on Consumer Credit(Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. If a creditor is making a claim can they rely upon copies regs when providing a copy as evidence supporting their claim?

 

My view on this is copies regs is no good as they are bringing a claim and must comply with normal law on evidence as copies regs states that it relates to copies "under any provision of the Act". A Claimant(creditor) is having to provide evidence (executed agreement) to support their claim and this is not providing a copy "under any provision of the Act".

 

Am I heading in right direction with this?

R

[citizenB]

flaminscoty has his own thread now, it can be found in the following link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/259660-flaminscoty-link.html

 

 

Robin,

 

have you hit the SOS button in respect of your question ? Alternatively, try pming BRW, vjohn82 or shakespeare62. They may be able to help:)

[RobinWayRobinme]

Thanx CB

 

As suggested have hit the red triangle re question below

 

Originally Posted by RobinWayRobinme

Hi all

 

Question on Consumer Credit(Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. If a creditor is making a claim can they rely upon copies regs when providing a copy as evidence supporting their claim?

 

My view on this is copies regs is no good as they are bringing a claim and must comply with normal law on evidence as copies regs states that it relates to copies "under any provision of the Act". A Claimant(creditor) is having to provide evidence (executed agreement) to support their claim and this is not providing a copy "under any provision of the Act".

 

Am I heading in right direction with this?

R

flaminscoty has his own thread now, it can be found in the following link.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/259660-flaminscoty-link.html

 

 

Robin,

 

have you hit the SOS button in respect of your question ? Alternatively, try pming BRW, vjohn82 or shakespeare62. They may be able to help:)

[pt2537]

Sorry, what is the question you want answering?

[RobinWayRobinme]

Thanx for looking in PT.

 

Question is related to Copies Docs Regs. Am I right that a creditor bringing a claim cannot just quote these regs to allow a reconstituted agreement as evidence without them complying with the CPR and law on hearsaY evidence as the copies docs regs do not provide that they can be used alone as evidence when a crditor brings a claim.

 

Hope this makes sense

R

 

Sorry, what is the question you want answering?

[pt2537]

well, what have they disclosed in their disclosure by list?

 

If they have put the original agreement in there, then they must have it and must produce at trial

 

They can reconstruct, but will need witness evidence etc to show the agreement is a accurate copy