Council Tax: Arrears - how much leeway do I have?

[chrysalis]

I'm writing this in a separate thread because I don't want to get it confused with my Capital One thread.

 

As well as that debt, my husband and I also have council tax arrears amounting to just over £1000. We'd made a payment arrangement with the council, paying £125 per month. £100 was for the current year's tax, £25 was for the arrears. I can't remember what happened, but one of those payments didn't go through, and suddenly we were being hounded by a DCA called Equitas. They told us that we had to pay £125 per month *off the debt* and it had to be paid in full within 9 months otherwise they would apply to the courts for a "right of entry" which would allow them to send the bailiffs in to take our posessions.

 

This was a few months ago, and I was in the middle of a benefits appeal and not getting any money. We just about managed for a couple of months, but realised it would be just too much. My husband telephoned them and said that we could not afford to pay the £125 and why, and the person he spoke to said that as long as he made a "token payment" each month and brought it up to date if and when my appeal was succesful, that was okay. Except, they didn't bother to make a note of it on our file, which resulted in a bailiff coming to the house. When he didn't get a reply (I hid upstairs) he put a photocopied piece of paper through the door that said "removal of goods notice". I telephoned my husband at work in an incredibly upset state - I was ready to take some stuff and go and stay with my mum for a bit Hubby phoned the bailiff and he said he would look into it.

 

In the meantime, my appeal was successful, so the Bailiff said we could make a one off payment of £200, then start back on the £125. Apparently, the person who told us about making a "token payment" was a new starter who should never have said that, and according to the bailiff, as a result of what happened to us, got the sack.

 

This brings us up to the present, but what concerns me is that really, we can't afford £125 a month. We only agreed to it because of the threats that were made to us. Reading around on here makes me think that we've been done. As it works out, we aren't paying anything off this years council tax, because we just can't afford it.

 

What are our options? It worries me that we have already entered into a payment agreement with Equitas, and they seem keen to bully and coerce, and aren't afraid to make home visits unannounced. As I read this back, it seems like we're doing everything we can to make a payment we can't afford while they're rubbing their hands with glee...

[Guest Zooman]

PM sent

[Buggles]

Hi Chrysalis,

 

Please don't worry. Bailiffs collecting Council Tax on behalf of Councils are NOT allowed to enter your premises unless you invite them in through an open doorway, although they can climb in through an open window. Also, if they turn up with the police they still can't come in, the police are only there to ensure the peace.

 

You should only be paying what you can reasonably afford.

 

These people try to bully us lesser mortals, but at the end of the day if they can't collect the money from you they will be forced to hand the account back to the council and then you could possibly renegotiate with them.

 

I would however strongly urge you too take advice from the Citizens advice Bureau and also request from the Bailiffs a tariff of their charges, just to make sure that they are not ripping you off too.

 

I have just finished dealing with some in my area and had £200 taken off the bill due to excessive charges.

 

Take Heart, these people can be dealt with, it's just knowing what weapons you can use.

 

I hope this helps in some small way

 

Buggles

[Guest Zooman]

I am not aware that you can not apply for a suspension of a warrant on a council tax liability. No where in the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 does it allow for a suspension of a warrant. Unless you can show me proof of said please remove as it will be misleading.

[Sophie-Jane]

Hi Chrysalis,

 

 

Question - Have you received OFFICIAL notification that the Debt has been passed on to Equitas, The Council Should of Informed you officially that the debt is going to be sent to a debt collector

 

its called a "Deed of Assignment"

 

If Not, Let me know, I will let you know the next step along this route

[Guest Zooman]

If the bailiffs are distraining for poll tax or council tax, there are certain procedures that they have to follow. But they do not need a deed of assignment (although they do need written authorisation from the council for them to call. They should show you this if you ask if this is what you mean they only need this on the doorstep and always have it.), their rights come though the liability order that will have been obtained.

[Sophie-Jane]

Question is, Have the DCA Got the Liability Order?

 

Have the council just passed the debt to a DCA without officially informing the debtitor?

 

But overall, if the Debtitor has Money problems, They should do a Financial statement, and Offer what they are able to

 

This can be done at a CAB office, which they will go thru the details of income and expenditure, and should cover All expences that do occur.

 

Mine also has Hairdressing allowance

 

Once tha financial statement has been done, this should be sent off with the offer of payment, whether that be a monthly or 4 weekly payment offer.

 

Which The DCA should not refute the validity of such a financial statement, if they do, tell them that the only option is court, and Let the Judge decide

[Guest Zooman]

Equitas are bailiffs based in Northampton not a debt collection company. And none of that applies.

[Buggles]

I am not aware that you can not apply for a suspension of a warrant on a council tax liability. No where in the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 does it allow for a suspension of a warrant. Unless you can show me proof of said please remove as it will be misleading.

 

The form is an N245 and is available as a download from the Court Services webpage, and was used successfully by me.............although I didn't need to go to court in the end..............as the threat of it to the bailiffs in my case was enough.

[Guest Zooman]

That can not be used for Council Tax.

[rotaryboy]

I had a similar issue with Bristow & Sutor, still going through it, but they added 3 years of arrears to my current year which I was 3 months overdue on and said the full ballance had toi be cleared in 3 months (£900 per month!!!) I was told I had to contact the council to agree a longer payment period as they had been given 3 months to collect the debt. I did this and have agreed £300 pm for both current C Tax and previous years arrears, should be clear by next tax year.

[Sophie-Jane]

£300 a month - that must be hurting a bit

 

Can it not be dealt with the DMC ? (From your Lloyds Question) that you are with, they could reduce that to a more reasonable level, But not knowing your financial circumstances at the moment

[Guest Zooman]

DMC can not handle bailiffs

[rotaryboy]

£300 a month - that must be hurting a bit

 

 

Hurts a lot less than £900! lol Also it is including current year so arrears are about £175 pm

 

As Zooman says, DMC can't normally help with bailiffs (especially in C Tax or Parking Fines as they will have a warrant or CCJ by the time it gets to this point) they can try to negotiate on your behalf, but it is as likely that you'd get a better response negotiating with the bailiff of the council direct.

[Ellie968]

There is a lot of muddled information in this thread. For clarity: the local council have instructed private bailiffs. These are not the same as court bailiffs so forget the N245 etc which only applies to court bailiffs (completely different). You have the right to refuse entry to the bailiff but they have the right to destrain other goods/chattels eg a car on the driveway even if you refuse entry. If the baillif does not gain entry and there are no other goods/ chattels to destrain then the account will be returned to the council and will probably be referred to the magistrates court for a hearing to find out why the debt has not been paid.

[blfuk1]

There is a lot of muddled information in this thread. For clarity: the local council have instructed private bailiffs. These are not the same as court bailiffs so forget the N245 etc which only applies to court bailiffs (completely different). You have the right to refuse entry to the bailiff but they have the right to destrain other goods/chattels eg a car on the driveway even if you refuse entry. If the baillif does not gain entry and there are no other goods/ chattels to destrain then the account will be returned to the council and will probably be referred to the magistrates court for a hearing to find out why the debt has not been paid.

Ellie and Zooman (I thought you'd gone?) are right. Misinformation is worse than no information. The local authority has obtained a liability order(s) at the magistrates' court and as a consequence, have instructed bailiffs (not debt collectors), to execute a warrant by seizure of goods. The bailiffs are there to seize goods (or accept payment on their terms). They have lawful authority to enter your premises and you have a right to refuse that entry. They may then seize goods outside the property. As Ellie states, ultimately, if they fail, the matter may be referred by the local authority to the magistrates' for committal proceedings (you can be sent to gaol if wilful refusal or culpable neglect can be proved). These are local taxes not DEBTS!

[chrysalis]

I completely forgot about this thread until I got an email notification about a new reply!

 

As the original poster, I thought I should update you all on what has happened with my particular problem.

 

My husband rang the council direct and complained about the way in which the bailiffs had acted, explaining my health problems and saying that he wasn't happy to deal with bailiffs who were essentially threatening us and exacerbating my health problems. To our utter surprise, the council agreed that we could go back to the original agreement and pay them £125 a month - this for the current years tax and some towards the debt! With the bailiffs involved, we were paying them £125 off the debt, and having to pay our current council tax bill on top of that. It was a hell of a struggle, and we stopped paying the current year's tax altogether.

 

Thank you to everyone who has advised me, this whole forum has helped me and my husband feel empowered enough to deal with it. Before I came here, I think we would have just struggled along, getting deeper and deeper into debt. Thank you all.

[antibank]

If you get any stick from the council complain here Local Government Ombudsman - How to complain they are like energy watch . The council have to accept what you can afford, although they always try it on

[mike5731]

ive had dealings with these parasites i was paying them a set amount each week with out fail although they were putting extra charges on a pound a week for accepting a debit card.

i went to pay them again this week only to be told it was passed over to the bailiff because i defaulted and i have never defaulted their payments however this bailiff said how much do you owe and i replied 65.00 he said now you owe 365.00 when i said i dont owe that amount he replied tough you defaulted i said i have proof i never defaulted by the bank statements he replied you are going to pay me 365.00 i said i will pay the 65.00 not the 300.00 he threatened to break in then.

so i got in touch with the parking supervisor at the local council and told her every payment made she looked into it and came back and said carry on paying how you was.

i then contacted citizens advice and written a statement about the conversation the citizens advice will help tremendously as they are trying to build a profile on these thugs (equitas) and then complain to send to the local authorites i felt alone dealing with these parasites.

but if you go back to the local authorites and explain your circumstances they will listen speak to a manager or supervisor and speak to cab.

these bailiffs are not court bailiffs so dont have the same power they cannot break in just make sure you keep all windows shut when youre not in.

hope this will be of some comfort to you.

mike