Hfc/Restons default judgement/co - struck out - now new claim!!

[Clynite]

Many thanks CB & FG,

I can see where you are coming from. I'll make the necessary amendments and will update you when I receive the Court Docs;

Best regards

Peter

[SteveH2508]

para 2 - estoppel

 

para 4 - amicably - not amicable

 

para 5 - re-presentation not representation?

 

para 6 - don't use & - use and

[Clynite]

Thanks for that SteveH2508,

I'll make the suggested amendments to the draft in a moment. I rang the Court today, to confirm when I'm likely to receive my Court Directions. I was informed, there is a backlog, and that I should receive them before the end of this week. Can't do much about that. Just as well CB sugested to get the draft defence together!

Thanks again!

[Clynite]

At last! The Court docs have arrived. Because I live in a rural area, the post arrives pm instead of am. Anyway, I will quote the DJ's order verbatim:

 

It is ordered that

 

1. Leave granted to the Defendant to amend his defence by 4pm on 18 November 2009.

 

2. Leave granted to the Defendant to apply by 4pm on 18 November 2009, for an order that the case shall be struck out as an abuse of process.

 

3.Leave granted to the Claimant to file in Court their statement in reply within 14 days of receipt of the Defendants statement.

 

4. Application of the Defendants be listed for a hearing on the 7 January 2010 at 15.00 with a time estimate of 1 hour.

 

Need to dot the I's and cross the T's. If I understand correctly, the support and advice to date would imply, that I submit the draft 'amended defence', as previously posted, before or on next Wednesday. Also, a completed Form N244. ( checked with Court - I have to pay a fee of £75 ) Can anyone help with the N244? Most of the form is straight forward, other than the following:

 

Part A (2) - " intend to apply for an order ( a draft of which is attached ) that"

Do I put in here 'Strike out'?

 

Part A (3) - "because"

Can I put 'please see attached amended defence'?

 

Part B - I (we) wish to rely on: tick one box

a-The attached ( witness statement)(affidavit)

b-My statement of case

c-Evidence in Part C in support of my application

Should I choose a/b or c ?

 

Part C - I (We) wish to rely on the following evidence in support of this application:

Can I put 'please see attached amended defence'?

 

Some other points I'm not clear about are:

Do I submit my amended defence, with a copy, so the court can issue this to the Claimant, or do I send a copy to the Claimant?

 

A Hearing has been arranged for 7 January 2010. Will this be the final Hearing, and is it normal to set aside 1 hour for this?

 

Other members have suggested I apply for costs. Can anyone explain how I do this? Is this request put on the N244 at the same time as the 'Strike out' request? Also, If I did win costs, how would they be paid to me? Given my experience of the Claimant solicitor, I cant imagine them sending me a cheque for an agreed sum. I honestly dont understand the costs situation. Any explanation would be appreciated.

 

I would be most greatful for any advice or help on the above points.

Yours in anticipation.

[citizenB]

At last! The Court docs have arrived. Because I live in a rural area, the post arrives pm instead of am. Anyway, I will quote the DJ's order verbatim:

 

It is ordered that

 

1. Leave granted to the Defendant to amend his defence by 4pm on 18 November 2009.

 

This is almost complete isnt it ?

 

2. Leave granted to the Defendant to apply by 4pm on 18 November 2009, for an order that the case shall be struck out as an abuse of process.

 

Yep, we can sort this out as well. Might need some input from others, will alert those that can help for you.

 

3.Leave granted to the Claimant to file in Court their statement in reply within 14 days of receipt of the Defendants statement.

 

4. Application of the Defendants be listed for a hearing on the 7 January 2010 at 15.00 with a time estimate of 1 hour.

 

Need to dot the I's and cross the T's. If I understand correctly, the support and advice to date would imply, that I submit the draft 'amended defence', as previously posted, before or on next Wednesday. Also, a completed Form N244. ( checked with Court - I have to pay a fee of £75 ) Can anyone help with the N244? Most of the form is straight forward, other than the following:

 

Part A (2) - " intend to apply for an order ( a draft of which is attached ) that"

Do I put in here 'Strike out'?

 

Part A (3) - "because"

Can I put 'please see attached amended defence'? - Yes

 

Part B - I (we) wish to rely on: tick one box

a-The attached ( witness statement)(affidavit)

b-My statement of case

c-Evidence in Part C in support of my application

Should I choose a/b or c ?

 

Not sure whether it should be a or b will check

 

Part C - I (We) wish to rely on the following evidence in support of this application:

Can I put 'please see attached amended defence'? I think so. You will also need to include copies of any documents you will be relying on, if any.

 

Some other points I'm not clear about are:

Do I submit my amended defence, with a copy, so the court can issue this to the Claimant, or do I send a copy to the Claimant?

 

On the N244 there is a box which asks who is to be served with the application you tick "Claimant" You should include 3 complete copies of the N244 and the Defence. One copy will be stamped and sent back to you, one copy will be sent to the Claimant and one copy will be kept by the court. If there is a lot of paperwork then file it neatly and chronologically in a folder.

 

A Hearing has been arranged for 7 January 2010. Will this be the final Hearing, and is it normal to set aside 1 hour for this?

 

Usually between 1 - 2 hours. If the Judge grants your application then yes, it should be the end of it all.

 

Other members have suggested I apply for costs. Can anyone explain how I do this? Is this request put on the N244 at the same time as the 'Strike out' request? Also, If I did win costs, how would they be paid to me? Given my experience of the Claimant solicitor, I cant imagine them sending me a cheque for an agreed sum. I honestly dont understand the costs situation. Any explanation would be appreciated.

 

You will be including a "Draft Order" one item will be that the Claimant do pay the Claimants costs of the claim in the sum of £ XXX.XX within 14 days. Will sort that out a bit later. You will need to work out how much it has cost you to apply for this Strike out, including the fee to submit the application. So keep a note of the time it has taken you to prepare your statement of case/defence. Also the time taken to research any law/ regulations, etc. Plus printing costs, paper. Travel to court to for filing and as you have an estimated time for the hearing you can also include the hour for that, your time to get there and back.

All your time should be billed at £9.25 hour which is the standard Litigant in Person charge. I am sure others will be able to think of other things you need to include if I have missed anything

 

I would be most greatful for any advice or help on the above points.

Yours in anticipation.

 

Hope the above is of some help, meanwhile I will try and find some more knowledgeable help in getting this strike out application sorted for you.

[citizenB]

I am just finding information that will help with the application to strike out.

 

I think that CPR 3.4(2) (b) applies in this instance

 

PART 3 - THE COURT’S CASE MANAGEMENT POWERS - Ministry of Justice

 

The court may strike out a statement of case if it appears to the court-

 

(a) that the statement of case discloses no reasonable grounds for bringing or defending the claim;

(b) that the statement of case is an abuse of the court’s process or is otherwise likely to obstruct the just disposal of the proceedings; or

© that there has been a failure to comply with a rule, practice direction or court order.

 

 

Practice direction 1.5

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION – STRIKING OUT A STATEMENT OF CASE - Ministry of Justice

 

The following article is an interesting read in respect of "abuse of process"

 

Strike out for abuse of process: guidance for making and resisting applications | The Law Gazette

 

 

 

[citizenB]

Just one thought, for the N244 application to strike out.. is Clynite the claimant or the defendant.

[Clynite]

Many thanks for your input and advice CB,

Just to confirm - I am ( Clynite ), the defendant. If Im correct, I have to submit relevant docs by Wednesday 18/11/09. At this stage, they will be 1. My amended defence, 2. N244 application for 'strike out'.

Should I amend my defence to read "abuse of court process under 'CPR 3.4(2) (b)' as suggested? My previous defence, as posted just cites "CPR 3.4".

 

I've read your recommended article ie Practice direction 1.5

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION – STRIKING OUT A STATEMENT OF CASE - Ministry of Justice

 

and ask, if the posted draft 'amended defence' is suitable as is, or do I need to edit/correct it as it stands?

Regards and thanks Peter

Edited November 14, 2009 by Clynite

[Clynite]

I am hoping to hand deliver my 'amended defence' and N244 application for strike out, Monday or Tues, Wednesday the latest. Below is the edited version of my defence. Is this suitable and sufficient in its current form? I would be greatful for any further editorial suggestions.

 

 

"I, xxxx, am a Litigant in Person and make application for a strike out of this application for reinstatement of this claim for the following reasons:

 

1. The Claimant, xxxx, issued a summons in the xxxx County Court on xxxx. The Defendant issued his defence on xxx. The Claimant was ordered to file and serve a response to the Defendants defence by/on xxxx if they wished to continue with the claim. The Claimant failed to comply and the court permitted the Claimant a further three months in which to comply. The Claimant was notified of this on xxxx. Again the Claimant failed to comply and the case was ‘struck out’ on xxxx. That order was evidently, not appealed within the time limits set by the Court and therefore remains the order of the Court in relation to the issue.

 

2. Since the cause of action in this claim is identical to their previous claim and the earlier proceedings were dealt with by a Court then the doctrine of estoppel known as res judicata applies and this action should be deemed an abuse of Court process as that described by Sir James Wigram V.-C. in Henderson v Henderson (1843) 3 Hare 100 at 114: "In trying this question I believe I state the rule of the Court correctly when I say that, where a given matter becomes the subject of litigation in, and of adjudication by, a court of competent jurisdiction, the Court requires the parties to that litigation to bring forward their whole case, and will not (except under special circumstances) permit the same parties to open the same subject of litigation in respect of matter which might have been brought forward as part of the subject in contest, but which was not brought forward, only because they have, from negligence, inadvertence, or even accident, omitted part of their case. The plea of res judicata applies, except in special cases, not only to points upon which the Court was actually required by the parties to form an opinion and pronounce a judgment, but to every point which properly belonged to the subject of litigation, and which the parties, exercising reasonable diligence, might have brought forward at the time."

 

3. The cause of action now relied upon merged with the order striking out the claim which was not appealed and remains the decision of the Court on the set of facts forming the second claim

 

 

4. The Claimant has implied ( letter supplied to the Court ) that I have requested a stay of proceedings in order to resolve the matter amicably. I refute this, and have put the Claimant to strict proof of this claim. They have failed to supply me with this evidence.

 

5. The Claimant has admitted in writing that this is a re-presentation of the same claim made previously.

 

6. The Claimant was given the opportunity to assess the validity of my previous defence and was offered two opportunities to progress with the previous claim. They did not take those opportunities. The Claimant is being vexatious and anachronistic in the issuing of this application and I therefore request that the Court strikes out this order as an abuse of process under CPR3.4. The Claimant has no reasonable prospect of success and I request that the court denies the Claimant permission to reinstate this claim.

 

Also, should I attach a copy of the letter I sent Restons, requesting 'strict proof' of their claim, I requested a stay of proceedings? They have failed to answer my request.

Regards Peter

[foolishgirl]

Hi Clynite

 

On CB's advice, I've just read through your thread properly for the first time - phew, you've really been put through the mill by this lot of arrogant bees haven't you?

 

Your defence looks fine to me as it stands. It's appears that the DJ just wants you to put the final nail in the coffin so he has the authority to bury this one. So moving on to the N244 applic, suggest you put in (3):

 

(1) An order (a draft of which is attached) that the claim be struck out pursuant to Rule 3.4(2)(b) PD of the Civil Procedure Rules

 

(2) That if this claim is struck out, the court considers the making of an Extended Civil Restraint Order against the claimant pursuant to Rule 3.11(3(1)3 PD of the Civil Procedure Rules

 

for the following reasons:

 

(1) This claim is an abuse of court rules & procedures, the original claim that mirrors this one having been struck out by xxxx on xxxx (see attached amended defence)

 

(2) The claimant has issued two claims that are totally without merit & the defendant does not wish to endure further harassment by the repetition of a similar future claim being served on him by the same claimant.

 

In Section 10 you need to tick witness statement. I'll come back to that one later.

 

In the meantime draft order:

 

IN THE ******* County Court Claim No:

 

 

 

BETWEEN:

 

 

xxxxxx

 

Claimant

and

 

xxxxxx

 

Defendant

 

DRAFT ORDER

 

UPON reading the Defendants Application Notice dated xxxx, attached defence and witness statement

 

 

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT:

 

 

• This claim is struck out forthwith
  

 

• The Claimant do pay the Defendant’s costs of the application, in the sum of £xxxx by no later than xxxx or at an amount to be assessed by the court.
  

 

I assume you are OK with the rest of the form - if not shout...

 

I'll have a think about the content of the WS.

[Clynite]

Hi foolishgirl,

Thanks for looking in and offering your advice. Thanks to CB also:)

I'm away now to compose the Draft Order, as suggested by yourself.

I'm also going to update my N244 as per your advice.

I'l await your recommendations on the WS.

Many thanks - couldn't do it without you:)

Clynite

[Clynite]

Just a quick update. I'm nearly there, I've updated the N244 ( the one I had was a different format to the generic one, so I downloaded a generic one from CB's link ) based on FG's advice, the amended defence is complete and the draft order also. Just the WS to do, if FG so advises. Please excuse my naivety, but I didn't know what a draft order was, let alone being able to produce one, phew! Just to re-cap; I will be submitting:

An Amended Defence, N244 Application, Draft order and possible a WS.

and I should provide the Court with a total of three copies- one for the court, one for the claimant and one will be returned to me.

Thanks for your support:)

[foolishgirl]

Hi Clynite

 

Not had much time today (got papers of my own to prepare for this week) but the WS will just really be a stronger version of your defence putting everything in the first person. However you need to submit it with the app. as although the DJ is aware of & has asked for an amended defence, that's not part of your application for the strike out. I know it sounds crazy, bear with it. I'll try & post up something tomorrow.

 

Don't forget to get your costs together too but that doesn't go in until you get your strike out.

[Clynite]

Hello FG

Thanks for your help. Im having trouble getting my head around the WS - first person aspect/content etc, is it possible for me to somehow duplicate my amended defence statement or state please see attached amended defence statement, or something similar. Sorry to be a pain. Also, you suggest claiming costs on the draft order, do I put a final cost figure here, or do I have to provide a breakdown of expenses etc. I have to submit everything by 4.00 pm Wednesday.

Thanks Clynite.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Clynite

[Clynite]

Can anyone provide a link to an example/template of a wasted costs order request. ie how to set it out and example of claim items etc

Thanks Clynite

[supasnooper]

WASTED COSTS THREADS

 

Have a look at the pdf's that Surfaceagentx20 has attached at the bottom of the post on a letter for wasted costs -

 

Surfaceagentx20 wasted costs

also

 

Liabilty for Costs CPR 38.6

Sharpman v Nationwide credit card services ***WON WITH WASTED COSTS***

 

Welcome/Cohens - case withdrawn ***WOO-HOO ***

 

have a look at this post by IGNM on costs as well -

 

IGNM post on costs

[foolishgirl]

Hello FG

Thanks for your help. Im having trouble getting my head around the WS - first person aspect/content etc, is it possible for me to somehow duplicate my amended defence statement or state please see attached amended defence statement, or something similar. Sorry to be a pain. Also, you suggest claiming costs on the draft order, do I put a final cost figure here, or do I have to provide a breakdown of expenses etc. I have to submit everything by 4.00 pm Wednesday.

Thanks Clynite.

 

Sorry clynite, will try & get back later today re. help with your WS.

 

Don't worry too much about the wasted costs this week, you can submit when you have won.

[Clynite]

Thanks for the links supersnooper, I'l check them out later.

 

Thanks also FG, I didn't realise I could claim the wasted costs, after a win! I was worried that I had to get them in now, with the other documentation. That's one worry off my mind now. It's because of the costs request on the Draft order, that has confused me. If I understand correctly, I'l be applying for the cost of the N244 application on the draft order? Hoping you can offer some guidance on the WS if you get the chance.

Regards

[citizenB]

Peter, Yes, the costs you put on the Draft order are basically a good estimate.

 

As regards your WS. Copy your WS into a separate document and expand on it. Put everything in date order from when it happened. Post up your draft later on and we can have a look and tidy it up for you.

 

Your case is fairly unique and all WS are different in any case, so "templates" are not in abundance.

 

HTH

[foolishgirl]

1. Re. your defence Clynite, IMO it needs the first para altering to:

'I, xxxx, am a Litigant in Person and make the following defence to reinstatement of this claim by xxxx for the following reasons:'

 

2. Re. your WS Clynite, I've included notes supplied by pt that you might find helpful & in the following post suggestions for your WS. I don't know all the facts, dates etc. so please amend to suit you.

 

3. Don't forget to end both your defence & WS with statement of truth or they may not be admitted by the court.

 

4. Each Exhibit has to be numbered & a seperate sheet of paper attached thus:

 

Defendant

 

Number: [1st] [2nd]

Exhibits: [“DEF1”]

Date:

IN THE XXX COUNTY COURT

Claim No:

 

 

 

BETWEEN

[________]

Claimant

and

[________]

Defendant

 

EXHIBIT “DEF1”

This is the exhibit marked “DEF1” referred to in the witness statement of Clynite dated

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Guidance Notes on Witness Statements

 

The general rule is that any fact which needs to be proved by the evidence of witnesses is to be proved at trial by their oral evidence given in public and, at any other hearing, by their evidence in writing.

CPR r.32 and CPR PD 32 set out the formal requirements for written evidence, including witness statements. These are summarised below.

Format of the witness statement

The top right hand corner of the first page should contain:

·The party on whose behalf the statement is made;

·The initials and surname of the witness;

·The number of the statement in relation to that witness, e.g. 1st, 2nd, etc.

·The identifying initials and number of each exhibit referred to in the statement. For example, if it is the witness’s first statement and it refers to three exhibits, these should be referred to as “ABC1” to “ABC3”. In a subsequent witness statement in the same proceedings, further exhibits would start at “ABC4”;

·The date the statement was made.

The witness statement should be headed with the title of the proceedings.

The witness statement should:

·Be produced on good quality A4 paper with a 3.5cm margin;

·Be fully legible and should normally be typed on one side of the paper only;

·Be bound securely in a manner which would not hamper filing;

·Have consecutively numbered pages;

·Be divided into numbered paragraphs;

·Have all numbers, including dates, expressed in figures; and

·Give the reference to any document or documents mentioned either in the margin or in bold text in the body of the statement, for example [at page14 “ABC1”]

It is usually convenient for a witness statement to follow the chronological sequence of the events or matters dealt with. Each paragraph of a witness statement should as far as possible be confined to a distinct portion of the subject.

Content of the witness statement

·The witness statement must, if practicable, be in the witness’s own words and should be expressed in the first person;

·The first paragraph generally sets out the “who, what and why” of the statement maker:

oWho the witness is – name, residential address (or business address if he is making the statement in a business or professional capacity, together with the position held and the name of his firm or employer)

oWhat the witness’s connection with the proceedings is

oWhy the witness is making the statement;

·Witness statements should deal with facts known to the witness. To demonstrate that this is the case, words such as: “Save where I indicate to the contrary, the matters set out in this witness statement are known to me personally.” Where a fact is not within the direct knowledge of the witness, it can be included but should be preceded by, for example “I am informed by [ ] and believe that ...”.It is important to state the source of any matters or information or belief;

·Witness statements in support of or in opposition to an interim application should contain only facts relevant to that application;

·Witness statements of lay witnesses should not contain legal argument. If it is necessary to refer to the legal position, a phrase such as “I am informed by my solicitor and believe that ...” maybe used;

·Witness statements must contain a statement that the witness believes the facts in it are true;

·Witness statements should be signed and dated.

Please see outline precedent witness statement below.

Exhibits

Documents referred to in a witness statement should be produced to and verified by the witness and remain separate from the witness statement.

Copies of individual letters should be collected together and exhibited in a bundle or bundles. They should be arranged in chronological order with the earliest at the top.

Each exhibit should have a front page attached identifying its exhibit number and details of the statement to which it is exhibited.

The top right hand corner of the exhibit sheet should contain:

·The party on whose behalf the statement is made;

·The initials and surname of the witness;

·The number of the statement in relation to that witness, e.g. 1st, 2nd, etc.

·The identifying initials and number of each exhibit referred to in the statement. For example, if it is the witness’s first statement and it refers to three exhibits, these should be referred to as “ABC1” to “ABC3”. In a subsequent witness statement in the same proceedings, further exhibits would start at “ABC4”;

·The date the statement was made.

The exhibit sheet should be headed with the title of the proceedings. A centre-heading should state the exhibit number.

[Clynite]

Thanks for that CB,

Dont know if this is of any value, or if what is needed. But hopefully someone could offer guidance or direction:confused: I could add more from my amended statement if that was necessary. Any ommissions/ additions advice would be most welcome. I have to deliver tomorrow at court.

Thanks in advance

WitnessSt.doc

Edited November 20, 2009 by Clynite
Incorrect document

[foolishgirl]

Witness statement suggestions. If you think of anything else relevant, add it. Just remember that this is in support of your applic for a strike out, it's not your defence so keep it as far as possible to reasons as to why they have abused the court process & should therefore be struck out.

(with thanks to pt again for judgment refs )

 

 

In the xxxxxxxx County Court

Claim No:

 

 

Between

xxxxx

and

 

 

xxxxxx

 

 

Witness Statement

1. I, Clynite, , am the defendant in this action and make the following witness statement in support of my application to have the claim made by xxxxx for reinstatement of this case struck out as an abuse of court process.

1. The Claimant, xxxx, issued a summons in the xxxx County Court on xxxx to which I replied in defence on xxx. My defence was based on

(a) xxxxx

(b) xxxxx

etc. etc.

If you have a copy of the defence, enclose it marked Exhibit A (see above for correct numbering system)

Then put in here: (see Exhibit A)

2. The Claimant did not respond to that defence within the permitted time frame & was ordered to file and serve a response by/on xxxx if they wished to continue with the claim. The Claimant still failed to comply and the court generously extended to the Claimant a further three months in which to comply. The Claimant was notified of this on xxxx. Again the Claimant failed to comply and the case was ‘struck out’ by order of the court on xxxx & the claimants informed of such. To my knowledge, that order was not appealed within the time limits set by the Court and therefore remains the order of the Court in relation to the issue.

3. The original claim submitted by the Claimant on xxxx was for a sum of xxxx. This included unlawful charges (& whatever else) in the sum of £xxxx.

4. On xxxx the claimant submitted a further claim for £xxx (see Exhibit B) Attach copy of POC for this claim. The sum claimed was for the exact amount of the sum of the original claim but with a deduction now made representing the charges etc. that had been added unlawfully to the sum claimed on xxxx.

5. I aver that this latest claim relies on no new evidence being presented by the Claimant as is exactly the same in substance as the one submitted on xxxxx & struck out on xxxx. Furthermore the claimant agrees with me as stated in their correspondence of xxxx (attached Exhibit C)

6. Since the issues raised in the earlier claim are identical to the issues raised in this later claim, the doctrine of estoppel known as res judicata applies & there is an absolute bar on the later proceedings unless fraud or collusion is alleged (Arnold v National Westminster Bank plc [1991] 2 AC 93). Where an issue decided in a previous claim between the parties is central to a second claim between the same parties, the whole second claim will be struck out (Kennecott Utah Copper Corporation v Minet Ltd [2002] EWHC 1622 (Comm), [2003] PNLR 18)

7. Furthermore, a party to litigation is required to bring forward his whole case at the time of the first claim. I aver that to seek to bring further action against me at this time is an abuse of court process as that described by Sir James Wigram V.-C. in Henderson v Henderson (1843) 3 Hare 100 at 114: "In trying this question I believe I state the rule of the Court correctly when I say that, where a given matter becomes the subject of litigation in, and of adjudication by, a court of competent jurisdiction, the Court requires the parties to that litigation to bring forward their whole case, and will not (except under special circumstances) permit the same parties to open the same subject of litigation in respect of matter which might have been brought forward as part of the subject in contest, but which was not brought forward, only because they have, from negligence, inadvertence, or even accident, omitted part of their case. The plea of res judicata applies, except in special cases, not only to points upon which the Court was actually required by the parties to form an opinion and pronounce a judgment, but to every point which properly belonged to the subject of litigation, and which the parties, exercising reasonable diligence, might have brought forward at the time."

 

8. In consideration of the above facts I request that permission for reinstating this claim is refused & that it is struck out as an abuse of process under CPR3.4.

9. I aver that the Claimant’s application for reinstatement of claim was brought on frivolous pretext causing undue distress to myself & wasting the Court’s time & resources. In order that a similar action should not be commenced in the future, I ask that if the court agrees to strike out this claim, it also gives consideration to the issue of an Extended Civil Restraint Order against the claimant pursuant to Rule 3.11(3(1)3 PD of the Civil Procedure Rules.

Statement of Truth

 

 

I xxxxxxxxxxx, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

Signed .....................

Date

[Clynite]

Many many thanks FG, I was beginning to panic, thinking I'm loosing the plot let alone direction. I will use your suggested WS format and edit accordingly. Im away now to do just that. PS should I estimate costs to complete the draft order? Dont know how much to estimate, difficult to put a figure or should I just go for the application fee? I'l be so happy to get closure on this issue.

Thanks for your time and effort it is sincerely appreciated.

PS thanks pt for judgement refs also.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Clynite
forget to thank pt for support

[foolishgirl]

PS should I estimate costs to complete the draft order? Dont know how much to estimate, difficult to put a figure or should I just go for the application fee?

 

The directions just ask for the application fee i.e £75.00 is what you will be awarded. Anything else can go into a wasted costs order applic. later. but suggest you don't mention this just yet

[Clynite]

Ok thanks FG, still busy typing and copying:) Have taken on board everything you've suggested. Thanks again for everything. speak to you soon.