MBNA or DCA Advice

[blueotter]

Can anybody give me some advice here please.

As anybody who has had any dealings with this shower can understand MBNA are without a doubt one of the most inefficent shambles of an organisation i have ever come across.

 

At present i am trying to get a payment plan started with them but they've thrown obstacles in my way at every turn and we're at a bit if a stalemate. All the while they've been racking up interest charges on my accounts of over a hundred pounds a month.

They've just sent me this

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2z82adu&s=5

 

Am i better off letting them just write it off and have it all passed to a dca or is that just asking for trouble ?

 

thank you

[the_shadow]

Firstly... come and join the party...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/204839-band-together-against-them.html#post2232118

 

 

 

S.

[the_shadow]

 

Am i better off letting them just write it off and have it all passed to a dca or is that just asking for trouble ?

 

thank you

 

Ok some questions...

 

When did you apply for the cards, was the application online or on paper. Have you CCA'd them? Are there unfair/illegal charges you can claim back?

 

Have you supplied everything they say is required for a reduced payment plan? What are they saying they still need.

 

S.

[blueotter]

I've had one of them for about 12 years and the other about 4 years,typical mbna stuff,the interest rate of over 30% has just crippled me. I've probably paid them at least 5x what i originally borrowed,maybe more.

I've not cca'd them yet although bearing in mind the time i've had them the cards i doubt very much whether they'd have any documents bar a generic application form.

I've given them everything they've requested,they actually agreed to a plan a while back over the phone and a week later when i'd rung them somebody else said they hadn't agreed !!

If anybody has had any dealings with mbna they'll know how diffuclt they can be,they won't communicate by letter unless they want something and instead prefer to pressurise people over the phone with the explicit intention of wringing enough money as they possibly can.

I'm at breaking point with this and have just had enough,3 months of a total waste of communication and all the while applying charges and interest.

[the_shadow]

I've had one of them for about 12 years and the other about 4 years,typical mbna stuff,the interest rate of over 30% has just crippled me. I've probably paid them at least 5x what i originally borrowed,maybe more.

I've not cca'd them yet although bearing in mind the time i've had them the cards i doubt very much whether they'd have any documents bar a generic application form.

I've given them everything they've requested,they actually agreed to a plan a while back over the phone and a week later when i'd rung them somebody else said they hadn't agreed !!

If anybody has had any dealings with mbna they'll know how diffuclt they can be,they won't communicate by letter unless they want something and instead prefer to pressurise people over the phone with the explicit intention of wringing enough money as they possibly can.

I'm at breaking point with this and have just had enough,3 months of a total waste of communication and all the while applying charges and interest.

 

They'll probably have the 4 year old application or at least a microfiche copy of it.

 

If you've sent everything requested by them and not had sufficient response I'd send a formal complaint letter and copy in your local MP and the OFT.

 

They have to respond to your complaint within 8 weeks.. if they dont go straight to the FOS on the fact MBNA are being unreasonable.

 

S.

[blueotter]

Some advice required please from you knowledgable folk on here.

 

I fired off a cca request to this bunch about 3 weeks ago,true to form they've ignored it but seem to be showing a lot of concern as i've had about 6 letters from them,very similar to the one at the top of the page telling me that my account is about to be written off as a bad debt,i'll be liable for the full amount and it will be registered as a default with credit reference agencies.

 

They want me to ring them so we can discuss some options,one of them is a full and final settlement so the question is shall i talk to them whilst not acknowledging any debt to them and tell them that the account as far as i'm concerned is in dispute but i'm willing to discuss a f+f settlement ?

 

Or am i leaving myself wide open to trouble ? I'm tempted to ring them but would like to know what people on here think please.

[Bazooka Boo]

DO NOT RING, under any circumstances, they will only tie you up in knots, offer you a one time offer if you 'take it now' IMHO unless you are able to record your calls, get everything in writing, that will be your only defence.

 

Boo;)

[dpick]

As Boo say's do not phone them or answer their phone calls they will tell you anything to get a payment off you. Any agreement made on the phone will be denied. Just keep saying you will communicate by letter only. I have had we are a telephone based company and you must talk to us on the phone, another we are an American company and English law does not apply only American law etc. If you can record the call then record one and send it by e-mail to the Customer advocate office(that is what it was called when I was stuffing them) that stopped all calls to me from MBNA.

 

dpick

[vint1954]

Some advice required please from you knowledgable folk on here.

 

I fired off a cca request to this bunch about 3 weeks ago,true to form they've ignored it but seem to be showing a lot of concern as i've had about 6 letters from them,very similar to the one at the top of the page telling me that my account is about to be written off as a bad debt,i'll be liable for the full amount and it will be registered as a default with credit reference agencies.

 

They want me to ring them so we can discuss some options,one of them is a full and final settlement so the question is shall i talk to them whilst not acknowledging any debt to them and tell them that the account as far as i'm concerned is in dispute but i'm willing to discuss a f+f settlement ?

 

Or am i leaving myself wide open to trouble ? I'm tempted to ring them but would like to know what people on here think please.

 

As advised, do not ring them.

 

Fill in the red xxx and send this off to them.

MBNA Europe Bank Limited

P.O. Box 1004

Chester Business Park

Wrexham Road

Chester

CH4 9WW

xxxxxx 2009.

Dear Sir or Madam,

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Further to my request under the above act, your attention is drawn to the fact that this account is subject to a serious dispute. On xxxxxxx, by recorded delivery, I requested that you supply me a copy of the executed credit agreement covering this account pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974 section 78, a copy of this request is enclosed. To date you have failed to comply with my request. Without production of the said agreement I am unable to assess if I am indeed liable for any alleged debt to you, nor does it give me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’ as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As you have failed to supply the documents requested, this account entered dispute on xxxxxxxxxxx

 

For the avoidance of any doubt I have included section 78(1) and 78(6) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, which states…

 

78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement

(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing ( 12 working days + 2 ) to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information to which it is practicable for him to refer,—

(a) the state of the account, and

(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor, and

© the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the debtor to the creditor.

(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly as no agreement has been supplied on request, you have not complied with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and I now draw your attention to section 78 subsection 6 which states If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

 

Clearly this is a situation as described in S.78(6) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and the debt is unenforceable at this time. In addition, I draw your attention to section 127 (3) Consumer Credit Act 1974 which states

 

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

 

This is backed by case law from the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (House of Lords) the highest court in the land. Your attention is drawn to the authority of the House of Lords in Wilson-v- FCT [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) which confirms that where a document does not contain the required terms under the consumer credit act 1974 the agreement cannot be enforced.

 

To clarify S.61(1) states

 

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

 

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

 

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Therefore based upon the Consumer Credit Act 1974 this debt as it stands is unenforceable and should this proceed to litigation, a court is precluded from making an enforcement order under section 127(3) unless a true copy of the signed agreement is produced..

 

At the point where this account entered into the default situation as described in s78 (6) CCA 1974 no other charges are allowed to be added until such time as you become compliant with my request. As you are still not in compliance with my request I insist that the following takes place with immediate effect.

 

All entries which refer to missed payments be removed from my credit file

All collection activities cease with immediate effect until you comply with my request from xxxxxxxxxxxxx or such time as a court makes an enforcement order.

In addition, I draw your attention to the Office of Fair Trading’s guidance on Debt Collection

 

The OFT guidance which was issued July 2003 (updated December 2006) relating to debt collections and what the OFT considers unfair, I have enclosed an excerpt from page 5 of the guidance which states

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

h. Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

What I Require.

 

I require that you send me a true signed copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

 

I require that you comply with my request within 7 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the requested documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74 or clarification that such agreement doesn’t exist. I am advised that should you persist in pursuing this debt ignoring the above information you will be in breach of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40 as well

 

No other correspondence will be accepted

 

Should you attempt litigation it will be vigorously defended and the failure to supply documentation under the CCA 1974 is a complete defence to any legal action and your actions will be vexatious and unlawful

 

I trust this out lines the situation

Yours faithfully

[blueotter]

Thank you for this,i'll get it out tomorrow as i presume it'll need recorded delivery treatment.

[blueotter]

Had another phone call from them this morning wanting to discuss my options.I said i'm still awaiting a reply to numerous letters and my cca request.

mbna " Oh i don't have that on record sir "

me "well you do now and mbna have signed for it as well "

mbna "Oh i don't have that on record sir,Anyway we need to discuss your options"

me "Er no,you need to find my letters and reply to them,thank you,goodbye"

 

 

and so it goes on and on and on and on

[Bazooka Boo]

Had another phone call from them this morning wanting to discuss my options.I said i'm still awaiting a reply to numerous letters and my cca request.

mbna " Oh i don't have that on record sir "

me "well you do now and mbna have signed for it as well "

mbna "Oh i don't have that on record sir,Anyway we need to discuss your options"

me "Er no,you need to find my letters and reply to them,thank you,goodbye"

 

Far too polite!

Bring it on!!!!!!

[blueotter]

I sent off a letter to mbna on the 17th July putting my accounts in dispute and had a phone call from them yesterday wanting to discuss a payment plan ! Once again i asked why there haven't been an replies to my letters and once again i didn't receive an answer.

My refusal to discuss anything on the telephone left her quite distraught and she did say they would now be defaulted althoug hi could buy myself some time if i paid £140.

 

What should i do now ?any ideas please

[Bazooka Boo]

AAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:

 

They can't default a disputed account!

 

You must stop talking to them on the phone, it makes me so angry:p

And I'm only reading about it!

 

Report them to the OFT

[email protected]

 

Financial Ombudsman Service

 

Home page | Ofcom for their continued harassment by phone.

 

Consumer Direct who will pass it directly to your and their local Trading Standards dept.

 

Consumer Direct

 

Boo:wink:

[blueotter]

thanks.i'll take your advice.

They're just driving me up the wall as they ignore everything i say or send to them.

[Undercover-Elsa]

They will whilever they think they can rattle you on the phone.

If you're with BT or Talk Talk, probably others too, you can take out a Choose to Refuse option for about £3 a month whereby you can ban the last caller or input a list of banned numbers.

They're probably getting upset because they don't have the agreement, so will be trying even harder to scare you into paying.

It's totally up to you but after the 12 +2 days with no agreement produced you can legally withhold payment.

You just need to hold fast!

Have you sent them the telephone harrassment letter?

I am writing in relation to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Elsa x

[blueotter]

Hi elsa,thanks for the reply,i've not done a telephone harassment letter,i'll send it but i doubt they'll pay any attention.It's a stressful enough time as it is without the hounds continually chasing me,the calls do get more frequent towards the end of the month but i put that down to bonus chasing.

[dpick]

Hi this is one of the ways I got back at the call monkies.

 

Print a copy of the Account in dispute (POST 9 ON THIS THREAD) and keep it near the phone. When MBNA/DCA phones just start reading it to the end of the letter, do not listen to anything they say. You will be surprised how many of the monkies will just put the phone down or if they are still on the phone when you have finished reading then say don't you understand English and then you hangup.

 

dpick

[sleepingdog]

Hi blueotter ,I too had dealings with MBNA and used to scared to answer the phone due to the continued pressure they applied. I almost lost my home as I paid them rather than the mortgage due to their threats. Since I found this site I found out that all their threats were just that (threats) and no more. Yes they did pass it onto DCA but by that time I had begun to understand debt more ,they have now sold debt to a nasty DCA who tried the same threats. You will like me begin to understand how powerless these parasites are and may even begin to enjoy the calls as I now do. Take the advice of caggers and you will start to take back control of your life and in turn it will be MNBA who will begin to dislike communicating with you.Good luck in your dealings with MNBA ,remember that you have power over MNBA not them.

sleepingdog

[Bazooka Boo]

And I can strongly recommend TrueCall!

trueCall - your nuisance call blocker it is the puppies privates of phone devices:D

 

Boo;)

[blueotter]

thank you for the advice,got a statement today from them,another £200 in interest for the month,that's £1200 in 6 months since i said i couldn't pay anymore.

i really need to find out what i can do about this interest ,its ridiculous to keep piling it on.

[Bazooka Boo]

The Consumer Forums - Bank charges templates (consumer)

[blueotter]

thank you for this,i'm going to try and find out what other people are doing as well with this bank,they're a disgrace,all other banks froze the interest payments or reduced them to something manageable,mbna are charging 30% on my balance which grows by £200 a month,i've not used the card for a few years and due to interest charges i've seen the balance almost double.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Blueotter,

Stick at it, you're doing great. They're desperately trying to keep you in this position forever more..you are a money cow to them at the moment if they can keep you running scared and making payments, whilst they can still rack up £££££££££'s in interest every month so that your soul is theirs forever more.

If it was me, I'd say bring on the default notices and termination..I haven't dealt with MBNA but in all my circumstances once they've terminated they've stopped adding interest, so at least you have a finite figure to deal with, then you can dig further and either go for the charges if they find the agreements, or legally refuse to pay if they don't find them.

Any F&F they offered you now would be unrealistic,unaffordable and not worth the effort. Remember they only get around 16p in the £, if that,if they sell the debt (plus tax reduction) and remember how much of this is unfair charges and exorbitant interest.

That will strengthen your resolve

Stay cool,further down the line once they've realised you mean business and know your rights, it'll get easier. Search on MBNA and see how others are handling them, as you say.

Elsa x

[blueotter]

Thank you for your kind words,people like myself ,indeed all of us can take a lot of strength and support from caggers on here.

Its a dark difficult time and the advice on here make sit more bearable.

 

I wish they'd just go ahead and terminate like they've been threatening to do for months now,at least that will stop the interest.

 

I've decided to stop making token payments,after all what's the point in it now ?