MBNA CCA issue .... I don't trust them !

[diddydicky]

Thanks peeps.

 

They shall get nothing if they call again. It does feel good knowing I have the upper hand ... at this point

 

i wonder if someone on the site could put the thumb with the flame coming out of it with the smilies (the old br gas ad) for people to demonstrate that they have taken control!!

[theHotHead]

Hello all.

 

In the last month I've had about 5 calls from Aegis and Global Vantage asking me to make payments, I refused to speak to any of them.

 

I just got an email from MBNA saying:

 

"Despite the reminders on your statement and our attempts to resolve this matter, we have not received a payment. You should be aware that prompt payment avoids late charges and negative information being registered against you with the Credit Card Reference Agencies. A good credit record is vital if you plan further borrowings in the future such as a mortgage or a personal loan.

 

Please call us on 08000 280689 to discuss this matter. Our specialists are available Monday to Thursday 8am to 9pm, Friday 8am to 7pm and Saturday 9am to 3pm."

 

Should I ignore it ? As far a I am concerned the account is officially In Dispute, MBNA have not written to me about it, my In Dispute letter stated that I would only respond to written correspondence. I'm just looking for some guidance as to what I should do next. Also, at what point can I threaten them with harassment because of the phonecalls from the collection companies ??

 

Thanks.

[diddydicky]

Hello all.

 

In the last month I've had about 5 calls from Aegis and Global Vantage asking me to make payments, I refused to speak to any of them.

 

I just got an email from MBNA saying:

 

"Despite the reminders on your statement and our attempts to resolve this matter, we have not received a payment. You should be aware that prompt payment avoids late charges and negative information being registered against you with the Credit Card Reference Agencies. A good credit record is vital if you plan further borrowings in the future such as a mortgage or a personal loan.

 

Please call us on 08000 280689 to discuss this matter. Our specialists are available Monday to Thursday 8am to 9pm, Friday 8am to 7pm and Saturday 9am to 3pm."

 

Should I ignore it ? As far a I am concerned the account is officially In Dispute, MBNA have not written to me about it, my In Dispute letter stated that I would only respond to written correspondence. I'm just looking for some guidance as to what I should do next. Also, at what point can I threaten them with harassment because of the phonecalls from the collection companies ??

 

Thanks.

 

i would just ignore them for a little while

if they send several more then you can write to them

[theHotHead]

DiddyDicky - or anyone else in the know, if I have put the account In Dispute and I have a signed receipt for the delivery of that notice to MBNA, why should I respond to any email from MBNA whatsoever ??

 

The notice says that since the account is In Dispute I will only respond to written correspondence. If the relevant department have not passed on my in Dispute notice then surely that is an internal affair for MBNA, right ?!

 

I'm just curious to know why I should actually even respond to an email from them in any case. I've informed the collection agencies of the situation so if they are not communicating this back to MBNA as well then, I think I have done all I should do, or do I have it wrong ??

 

I'm not being shirty here, I just want to know how strong my current position is with regard to my rights having put the account In Dispute.

 

Thanks all.

[diddydicky]

DiddyDicky - or anyone else in the know, if I have put the account In Dispute and I have a signed receipt for the delivery of that notice to MBNA, why should I respond to any email from MBNA whatsoever ??

 

The notice says that since the account is In Dispute I will only respond to written correspondence. If the relevant department have not passed on my in Dispute notice then surely that is an internal affair for MBNA, right ?!

 

I'm just curious to know why I should actually even respond to an email from them in any case. I've informed the collection agencies of the situation so if they are not communicating this back to MBNA as well then, I think I have done all I should do, or do I have it wrong ??

 

I'm not being shirty here, I just want to know how strong my current position is with regard to my rights having put the account In Dispute.

 

Thanks all.

 

if you have made it clear you wil only respond in writing thats fine

 

personally i dont give them my e mail addy because during court proceedings they tend to serve notices by e mail at the eleventh hour

 

i always delete e mails unread (as they can record if you have read them)

 

hope that helps

[theHotHead]

At the end of the In Dispute letter I sent it says:

 

" I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully"

So it does say in writing but I must admit the letter doesn't hammer home the point that I will only respond to them in writing only.

 

Is it worth me writing to them and repeating that I will only respond to them in writing ? Sorry for asking seemingly trivial questions, I just don't want to make any mistakes.

 

Thanks.

[diddydicky]

At the end of the In Dispute letter I sent it says:

 

" I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

Yours faithfully"

So it does say in writing but I must admit the letter doesn't hammer home the point that I will only respond to them in writing only.

 

Is it worth me writing to them and repeating that I will only respond to them in writing ? Sorry for asking seemingly trivial questions, I just don't want to make any mistakes.

 

Thanks.

 

well it doesnt matter which way you put it- they will ignore you anyway- its more to make sure that your paperwork stacks up in court if it gets that far

[theHotHead]

I just received a letter signed by Martin Supple (Head of Customer Assistance), a reminder to make a payment and a suggestion that I set up a direct debit.

 

I also received a notice of Sums In Arrears.

 

I received an email stating dispite numerous requests for me to contact MBNA I have not done so.

 

I am about to send them a short letter reiterating that the account was put In Dispute by myself and reminding them to send me my CCA. It will be a re jig of my in dispute letter. I will put in caps that I will only respond to written correspondence, no phone calls or emails.

[diddydicky]

i would also suggest you set up filters on your e mail account to return mbna e mails unopened

[Capricorn1601]

I'll second that.

 

I take it as yet no cca has arrived? Not even a bad one? Can you remember when you took the card out and was it affiliated with any company ie Virgin/Homebase etc.

[theHotHead]

Hi peeps.

 

No, I haven't received my CCA back yet in any way shape or form.

 

I got a call from my someone in my family to say that MBNA called me last week.

 

The card was not affiliated, the card is still in my wallet, it has no other logos or names on it apart from MBNA Europe.

[theHotHead]

Good morning all.

 

I got a letter in the post from MBNA containing:

 

a) copy of executed agreement

b) up to date T&Cs

c) a copy of most recent statement.

 

The executed agreement is this (with personal stuff removed), a single sheet of A4 with a scanned document on either side:

 

 

On the other side of the page:

 

 

I have no idea what to make of this so, your thoughts please, thanks.

 

EDIT - the images are not showing up, I placed them on Flickr and made them public. Is there a better way for me to do this ??

 

I got a call from MBNA this morning "advising me" that soon I would be 3 payments in arrears and they would be notifying the credit reference agencies.

[theHotHead]

CCA on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

Link to CCA above.

 

CCA2 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

Link to reverse of sheet they sent above.

[theHotHead]

Apologies for bumping this back up but can someone tell me what they think about my CCA sent to me by MBNA please.

 

The links in my previous post should work. Cheers.

[silverfox1961]

hi,

While I can't be absolutely sure, can you say what the dates are on the bottom right of image CCA2. Does it say 12/03 or 12/05.

 

I do believe that the terms they have sent you don't match the CCA in image "CCA" as you signed that in 2001. I think they are trying it on.

 

Hold fire for more comments.

 

fox

[latipac girl]

Hi,

 

I have an MBNA credit card and i sent the usual letter back in April with a postal order for £1. I did not put my signature to anything. They did not respond and i have been bombarded with phone calls and telling me i am in arrears. Now its September they have rung me and said that the postal order is not the right thing to do and i must send a cheque as it is government policy. They said i am £1000 in arrears because they have not encashed the postal order. I said it was therefore their fault because i had sent them the right money. They have insisted on a cheque and wonder if this is so they can get my signature. I offered to get a friend to send a cheque and they were not happy with that either. Sounds very fishy to me. Has anyone else been faced with this problem and is it wrong to send a postal order?

 

Any advice would be very grateful as they will be ringing back.

 

latipac girl

[Capricorn1601]

the words lying **** bags should just about answwer the question

[Capricorn1601]

Just to add. I sent mine in february,they didnt respond then when I put the account in dispute they claimed they hadnt received the postal order. I just replied that it was attached to the letter and provided them with the tracking number. It all went very quiet for a long time, with the exception of the sending me demands for the usual payment. They send a dodgy CCA eventually, but I still haven't paid.

 

Dont believe them, a postal order is the equivalent of cash, hence one of the reasons we send them, as they cant claim extra time to cash them in as they would a cheque. It is classed as legal tender, and there is no government legislation or otherwise to say it must be by cheque. They are in default. Full stop. Do not discuss anything with them over the phone. They will try to trick you into doing or saying something. You must get everything in writing so they are accountable. Refuse to speak to them next time they ring. Do not answer the security questions.

[latipac girl]

Hi,

 

Thank you for that I feel much better now. I will wait for the phone call and tell them politely to go away and see what happens next.

 

Laitpac girl

[exchange]

Some people cannot let a phone go unanswered. You should not even answer the phone to them, it's your phone and you decide who you speak to! Log the time they call. Use the website whocallsme to check the number if you're not sure it's them, but please don't answer the phone!!

[slobbo09]

Happenin all,

 

Just looking through your thread, pretty new to this so bare with me. I am also about to take on Virgin (MBNA) through unenforceability, try too anyway. Virgin sent me my credit agreement about 10 days after i sent a CCA. No signsature, no assigned interest as it states it varies, but im not 100% on what grounds to unenforce the debt. Have you lot used a template letter at this point?

Capricorn how do i navigate to your thread? Would be good to get on board with people at similar stages.

Cheers everyone, nice work

[theHotHead]

Hi Slobbo - Capricorn's thread is here:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/185758-mbna.html

 

I would suggest you both (Latipac Girl and Slobbo) start your own thread as I did, that way each thread doesn't get hijacked and end up going off on different tangents, the posters on here reply to your questions quickly and I've had lots of great advice so far, made me feel very comfortable during this process.

 

Silverfox, if it is a date it is 12/00.

 

I have no idea if what they sent me constitutes an enforceable agreement. The 2 scanned thin slips of info don't seem to contain the layout or information that I have seen in other examples and the T&Cs shown are and I quote "... some of the provisions contained in Conditions 1 and 2 of the MBNA Credit Card Terms & Conditions. The other conditions referred to in these paragraphs and the applicable definitions can be found in those Terms & Conditions".

 

I'll check other enforceable and unenforceable examples, but from memory what they sent me seems to be missing key information, can anyone else confirm this ???

Edited September 8, 2009 by theHotHead

[theHotHead]

Here is a link to enforceable and unenforceable agreements:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html

 

I've just gone through it and found the following:

 

1) Creditor's signature is missing from either page

2) Terms and Conditions are on another page (may be the reverse of the application form - not sure if that makes a difference though)

3) There is no credit limit - there is a reference to it in the T&Cs but all it says is "We will from time to time choose the credit limit and notify you of this". It doesn't say they will choose it and let me know, it says from time to time it will change.

4) Condition 4 part b points to an exception for the payments in conditions 2.4, 3.5 and 3.6 - but none of these conditions are present so the form is not easily legible.

 

User pt2537 stated on one of his/her posts regarding an example that has the exact same clauses missing "oh also, since its in relation to a prescribed term, they could be in trouble here too" - What does that mean ??

 

As far as I see, from the examples given on this site, there are a few reasons why this agreement is not properly executed. Not sure if it makes it unenforceable though because on one of the examples given that was not properly executed because the terms and signature of the debtor were on opposite sides of the form (amongst other things apparently), the poster states "this agreement is only enforceabld by court order under s65 of the CCA 1974. It complies with the requirements of s127(3)"

 

Can anyone tell me what that means please ?? I'll see if I can find what they mean myself when I get a chance ... off to work now.

 

Thanks all.

[haggis1984]

Here is a link to enforceable and unenforceable agreements:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html

 

I've just gone through it and found the following:

 

1) Creditor's signature is missing from either page

2) Terms and Conditions are on another page (may be the reverse of the application form - not sure if that makes a difference though)

3) There is no credit limit - there is a reference to it in the T&Cs but all it says is "We will from time to time choose the credit limit and notify you of this". It doesn't say they will choose it and let me know, it says from time to time it will change.

4) Condition 4 part b points to an exception for the payments in conditions 2.4, 3.5 and 3.6 - but none of these conditions are present so the form is not easily legible.

 

User pt2537 stated on one of his/her posts regarding an example that has the exact same clauses missing "oh also, since its in relation to a prescribed term, they could be in trouble here too" - What does that mean ??

 

As far as I see, from the examples given on this site, there are a few reasons why this agreement is not properly executed. Not sure if it makes it unenforceable though because on one of the examples given that was not properly executed because the terms and signature of the debtor were on opposite sides of the form (amongst other things apparently), the poster states "this agreement is only enforceabld by court order under s65 of the CCA 1974. It complies with the requirements of s127(3)"

 

Can anyone tell me what that means please ?? I'll see if I can find what they mean myself when I get a chance ... off to work now.

 

Thanks all.

 

Mu understanding is that a credit agreement can comply with s127(3) - a CCA request - without having the debtors signature on it. Howver, to obtain a judegment in court the creditor would need to provide a signed agreement. Basically a CA request can be satisfied with an unenforceable agreement.

 

This is why people are encouraging the use of the cpr rules and/or subject access request to flush out the actual signed agreement to see if its enforceable.

 

Im pretty new to this so so hopefully someone will correct if im wrong

[theHotHead]

Hello all. I tried reading up on s65 and s127(3) and I got nowhere fast lol.

 

Where I think I am at the moment, I received what MBNA deem to be my CCA, whether it is enforceable or not I guess they have now complied with my request - even if the account is now In Dispute. As far as they are concerned, is that the end of the matter ??

 

The reason I ask is, I thought that something in the courts had to take place for the matter to go to the next stage, once the account is In Dispute.

 

So, I have some documents which do not seem to be correct. Do I need to submit a SAR to further determine exactly what details/docs MBNA have on me, the last thing I would want is for them to magic an enforceable agreement at the last minute ?

 

AS far as they are concerned I bet they think they have complied and will continue to charge me. As far as I am concerned what they sent me is not properly executed and so potentially unenforecable.

 

What do I do now ? Thanks.