Help please?

[babyneedsanewcoat]

Hi, I hope someone can help me.

 

Today I received a Removal Notice from Equita stating as I have failed to pay the outstanding council tax due to Birmingham City Council.

 

Firstly this is the 1st letter I have received and 2nd it doesn't tell me how much I am supposed to owe.

 

I called the bailiff who advised me I owed £255. I told him this was the 1st letter I had received and to be fair he did say he would hold off until Friday to come visit (how generous). Anyway the debit is from an old address from 2007.

 

I called the revenues line for B'ham City Council and was informed that the debt was between 1st Apr 2007-3rd Nov 2007 for £58.87. When I asked when they sent me that bill I was told in Feb 2009. I advised the lady I didn't receive it but could she tell me why it had taken the council 15mths to send it, especially when they knew exactly where I lived as they had continued to send me council tax bills for the current year. She said she couldn't and that I should write to Head Office and she would ask for them to put a hold on the account for 28days.

 

I have done that but I am concerned as the bailiff has said he will be attending mine on Friday. Can anyone give me some advice on what I should do and how can they justify in charging me nearly an extra £200?

 

Any help would be gratefully received.

[pompeyfaith]

Have they sent you a summons to attend court because they cant instuced a bailiff it has to go to court first.

 

PF

[babyneedsanewcoat]

I've had nothing from anyone prior to the letter I received today.

[Dodgy Geezer]

YOUR ADDRESS

LINE 2

LINE 3

POSTCODE

 

 

 

 

NAME OF BAILIFF

 

 

DATE

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: Your Reference

[NAME OF] Council appears to have instructed you to recover Council Tax arrears.

 

This notice directs that you are not being given entry to my home or to levy goods contained within. This notice revokes your entitlement to charge a Walking Possessions fee. Please be advised that if your fees are found to contradict The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 you may be liable for criminal prosecution under the Fraud Act 2006, I will automatically file a Form 4 complaint at your certificating court.

I confirm I am not refusing to pay this debt and I will pay the money direct to the council.

Please provide me with a breakdown of your fees.

 

Yours Faithfully

 

 

YOUR NAME

CC The Council.

 

 

 

They will charge whatever they think they can get away with.

Adjust this letter to suit,and have it ready to hand over if they return.

Do not let them in EVER, do not sign anything EVER. Do not speak to them on the phone, the bailiff that is.

There is nothing they can do except climb back under the stone from whence then came.

 

In the meantime ask the council for a copy of the liability order, and pay that amout, including court fees directly to the council ASAP.

 

 

.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Dodgy Geezer
Add a bit

[Guest Happy Contrails]

Can anyone give me some advice on what I should do and how can they justify in charging me nearly an extra £200?

 

The law prescribing bailiffs fees for collecting unpaid council tax is the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and provides £24.00 for a first visit and £18.00 for a second visit if one is made. No other bailiff's fees can lawfully be charged if a bailiff has not moved your goods in a vehicle and you have not signed any document consenting to a levy or a walking possessions agreement (currently a flat rate of £10).

 

Phone the council, tell them their bailiff has been caught cheating with his fees and commits an offence under Section 2 and 4 of the Fraud Act 2006 and ask they take the council tax debt back into town hall administration. If the council is uncooperative or vexatious then quickly contact the local government ombudsman.

 

Phone the bailiff on his mobile and ask him for the name of the court that issied his bailiffs certificate and quickly end the call. If he refuses to disclose it then phone the Ministry of Justice Public Register of Bailiffs on 020 3334 6355 and ask which court issued his certificate.

 

Send this letter to the bailiff, and one to the council. If you get no positive response then file a Form 4 complaint against the bailiff, and make a complaint addressed to the Local Government Ombudsman against the council.

 

Bailiffs/Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Postcode

 

DATE

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: [YOUR NAME + REF]: Your bailiffs fees.

 

I write following a visit by your bailiff however there appears to an irregularity with his fees and I ask you to provide the following in writing within fourteen (14) days:

 

1) The name and address of the court that issued the certificate for the bailiff in charge

 

2) The amount of i) bailiffs fees, and ii) the original debt

 

3) Truthfully confirm the bailiffs fees comply with legislation

 

If you appear to be unable or unwilling to provide the above, I will automatically commence proceedings on that basis.

 

This letter is delivered by Royal Mail and a certificate of posting has been obtained. It is your responsibility this letter is handed to the relevant person in your organisation.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

YOUR NAME

enc. copy of bailiff's document.

 

Form 4: Download the complaint form to make an official complaint against the bailiff http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf and send the form to the certificating court enclosing supporting evidence such as the bailiffs document showing the bailiffs fees he is trying to charge and any amounts paid.

[hallowitch]

e- mail the council you want to know

date the liability order was granted how much it was for

date it went to bailiffs

conformation of your phone call that there will be no bailiffs action on this debt remind them that you have had no visits from the bailiff only one letter so as of the date of this e-mail there should no bailiffs charges get them to confirm the date of the debt also

 

get it all in writing

[bailiffbasher69]

Hi and welcome you are not alone i to am dealing with equita for a birmingham council tax debt you may find my thread usefull I think its on page 2 from the main forum page i wonder can you give me a clue as to the bailiffs name please

[babyneedsanewcoat]

Thanks to everyone for their help. I have mailed the council asking for clarity on the above plus confirmation. Hopefully this will be resolved ASALP.

 

Cheers.

[bailiffbasher69]

it wont be that simple trust me

[Guest Happy Contrails]

It probably wont, the OP will need to file a claim in the county court. Fees apply but the OP is claiming prescribed benefit then complete a Form EX160 fee remission.

 

In the Particulars of Claim:

 

On [DATE] I was charged by a bailiff acting for the defendant the sum of £[AMOUNT] unpaid council tax plus fees of [£AMOUNT] and those fees are inconsistent with the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992. I have tried to seek a reasonable resolve with the defendant who is unwilling to settle the matter and their contractor has closed the case. I ask the defendant pay me the sum of £[AMOUNT] and statutory interest 8% from the date the money become due under Section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 plus costs allowed by the court.

 

It can be filed online. Sign up to Money Claim online https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco/login_pass_yes01.jsp

[babyneedsanewcoat]

Hi, it's me again. I sent two mails to Birmingham City Council and had a standard we will contact you but 4 weeks later, I have heard nothing. This morning I found a Bailiff Removal letter in my letterbox. Address, our ref and date handwritten stating Payment due in full - 24hrs. It then states they have attended to remove my good for the non payment of the council tax etc etc.

 

Can someone give me some more advice on what to do. It again doesnt say how much is owed, so should I call them and ask what they are expecting now?

 

Any help would be really appreciated.

 

Thanks.

[babyneedsanewcoat]

I have added the link so you can see what happened so far

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/203906-help-please.html

 

I have finally got a response from Bimingham City Council after 6 weeks, 4 emails and a threat of legal action. The letter is the usual stuff this is why you owe us x amount etc but 1 thing struck me - word for word I will type what they wrote regarding Equita Bailiffs.

 

With regard to the £255.00 payment notice presented by Equita Bailiffs, I have spoken to an officer there, who has confirmed that £42.50 has been charged for the following:

 

£24.50 for the first visit by the bailiff

£18.00 for the second visit.

 

The remainder would be for potential costs incurred by the bailiff during the recovery action. These fees are not illegal. Legislation only states that Enforcement Fees have to be reasonable and agreed between the Local Authority and the bailiffs.

 

Considering up to the date I sent these emails I had received 1 letter (which started this ball rolling) and today where I have had 1 visit are all these fees reallly correct?

 

If someone in the know could check for me please so I can proceed further I would be very grateful.

 

**Babyneedsanewcoat**

[bailiffbasher69]

Hi im in birmingham to we should talk ill pm you my phone number if thats ok

[hallowitch]

The remainder would be for potential costs incurred by the bailiff during the recovery action

so what there saying is i might get a levy and if i get a levy i might get a van fee so just in case i do i will add the costs

what a load xxxxxxxx that is

have you sent letter -email to the bailiff company asking for a breakdown of there charges

[freakyleaky]

Advice Via Pm Is Not Recommended. Any Inaccurate Advice Cannot Be Challenged Or Corrected.

Phoning Somone You Don't Know And Divulging Sensitive Information Is Dangerous And Not Recommend.

 

Please Keep All Advice To The Open Forums.

[hallowitch]

Legislation only states that Enforcement Fees have to be reasonable and agreed between the Local Authority and the bailiffs.

 

and thats a load of xxxxxxxx bailiffs fees for collecting council tax are not agreed between the bailiff and local authority

 

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION AND

ENFORCEMENT) REGULATIONS 1992 (SI 1992/613 AS

AMENDED BY SI 1993/773, SI 1998/295, SI 2003/2211, SI 2006/3395 AND SI 2007/501

(SCHEDULE 5)

NOTICE OF

CHARGES CONNECTED WITH DISTRESS

1. The sum in respect of charges connected with the distress which may be aggregated under

regulation 45(2) shall be set out in the following Table-

(1)

Matters connected with distress

(2)

Charges

A For making a visit to premises with a view

to levying distress (where no levy is

made) –

i) where the visit is the first or only such

visit £24.50

ii) where the visit is the second such

visit:£18

 

2.—(1) In heads A and B of the Table to paragraph 1, "the relevant amount" with respect to a visit or a levy means—

• (a) where the sum due at the time of the visit or of the levy (as the case may be) does not exceed £100, £12.50,
  

• (b) where the sum due at the time of the visit or of the levy (as the case may be) exceeds that amount, 12½ per cent. on the first £100 of the sum due, 4 per cent. on the next £400, 2½ per cent. on the next £1,500, 1 per cent. on the next £8,000 and ¼ per cent. on any additional sum;
  
• (2) Where a charge has arisen under head B with respect to an amount, no further charge may be aggregated under heads A or B in respect of that amount.
  

and the sum due at any time for these purposes means so much of the amount in respect of which the liability order concerned was made as is outstanding at the time

 

get in touch with your M P and send them the letter you have received from the council

if the council don't know the correct legislation what chance have the people of Birmingham got

 

in fact i would take this to the papers

[babyneedsanewcoat]

I did send a letter to the bailiff, got the certificate of posting dated 09/07/09.

[babyneedsanewcoat]

Sorry Hallowitch, I don't fully understand the post, could you spell it out in basic terms for me please?

[hallowitch]

they are obviously not going to reply to this letter

i would send them an e-mail asking why you have not not had a reply to your letter dated xxx and ask them for breakdown of there charges tell them if you receive no reply you will file a form 4 complaint to the court

 

and i would seriously consider going to the papers with this i cannot believe the council are sending out letters like that

[andie_303]

they cannot charge you upfront for potential fees - and I think Hallowitch is trying to show with the post above that fees are not approved by baliffs and coucils they are set down in law - so whoever wrote you that letter is either completely mistaken or lying and hope you don't realise!

[hallowitch]

the collection of council tax arrears are legislated by

THE COUNCIL TAX (ADMINISTRATION AND ENFORCEMENT) REGULATIONS 1992 AMENDED

this legislation is is set by the government NOT the local council

 

and goes like this

 

A For making a visit to premises with a view

to levying distress (where no levy is

made) –£24.50--- in other words the bailiff came to your home and you were not in he left a letter to say he had been and to contact him

 

where the visit is the second such visit:£18--- you did not contact him so he had to come back to your house you were not in so he left another letter to say he had been

 

there can now be no other charges added to your account for visits

 

the next thing the bailiff would have to do is get a walking possession agreement (W P A ) to levy goods this must be left at your home at the time of the levy listing the goods on the w p a

to get a wpa the bailiff would have to gain entry to your property or levy on goods outside your home a car or garden furniture e c t

the charges for this are also set out by government law

 

 

.—(1) In heads A and B of the Table to paragraph 1, "the relevant amount" with respect to a visit or a levy means—

• (a) where the sum due at the time of the visit or of the levy (as the case may be) does not exceed £100, £12.50,
  

• (b) where the sum due at the time of the visit or of the levy (as the case may be) exceeds that amount, 12½ per cent. on the first £100 of the sum due, 4 per cent. on the next £400, 2½ per cent. on the next £1,500, 1 per cent. on the next £8,000 and ¼ per cent. on any additional sum;
  
• (2) Where a charge has arisen under head B with respect to an amount, no further charge may be aggregated under heads A or B in respect of that amount
  

don't panic if you don't understand this just ask again what bit you don't understand

Edited July 27, 2009 by hallowitch

[hallowitch]

word for word I will type what they wrote regarding Equita Bailiffs.

 

With regard to the £255.00 payment notice presented by Equita Bailiffs, I have spoken to an officer there, who has confirmed that £42.50 has been charged for the following:

 

£24.50 for the first visit by the bailiff

£18.00 for the second visit.

 

The remainder would be for potential costs incurred by the bailiff during the recovery action. These fees are not illegal. Legislation only states that Enforcement Fees have to be reasonable and agreed between the Local Authority and the bailiffs.

 

I am totally disgusted with this reply from the council

[tomtubby]

The council will be aware that their bailiffs ( who are acting as their agents) are able to charge £24.50 for "attending to levy" where no levy was amde. In other words that nobody was at home. If a second such visit was amde then a further charge of £18.00 may be applied.

 

It would appear that Equita are charging you an "attending to remove fee" which they are claling an "enforcment fee".

 

HOWEVER.....for an "attending to remove fee" to be legally applied the bailiff MUST have PREVIOSULY levied upon goods. There is CLEAR CUT case law on this which Equita are fully aware of. If you need to remond them...the case is re: Evans v South Ribble District Council.

 

In this case, Justice Simon Brown made the point VERY CLEAR indeed that Distress consist of 3 stages:

 

The entry into the property...

 

The levying of the goods...

 

The removal of the goods...

 

Finally, please remember that the local authority are WHOLLY RESPONSIBLE for not only the actions of their bailiffs but the fees that their bailiffs are charging to their council tax payers.

[babyneedsanewcoat]

So what you are saying is he could only charge the £42.50 had he visited me twice (which hasn't happened), all the rest of the fees are illegal or wrong? The council should know this as well, so they are hoping I won't know and just agree to them? The letter also states I should contact the bailiff to make arrangements to pay as the council have effectively washed their hands of it.

 

Should I write again to the council and if so what should I put in the letter?

[babyneedsanewcoat]

I have just looked up on the website http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/CertificatedBailiffs/searchPublic.do?search=equita&d-1341904-p=6

 

to see if the bailiff who has my account is on there and he isn't. Does that mean he is not allowed to be chasing this?