A guide to Charging Orders & Orders for Sale

[diddydicky]

i would suggest you cut and paste your queery onto a new thread- that way you will get maximum response that tacking it onto an existing thread

 

in the meantime RELAX

 

you are 101% safe from the prospect of an order for sale

 

orders for sale are as rare as rocking horse poo and even if you had equity in your house- given your medical circumstances it would never occurr.

 

further whether you were average joe soap with no money- or richard branson- a judge would not order the sale of your house when there is little or no equity

 

the forced sale of a propery is NOT a punishment- it is a device for a creditor to recover a debt from a recalcitrant debtor

 

forcing the sale of a property when there would be nothing to give to the creditor would be of no benefit to anyone- hence a judge would not order it

 

finally, the creditor would not make the application - since if it were to happen- he would lose his security

 

what the creditor COULD do- is forgo his charging order and then apply for bamkruptcy- but given your circumstances he would not do that either since again he would get diddly squat and it would cost him a lot more money for nothing

 

so go make a cup of tea- and enjoy the rest if your life

Edited February 15, 2011 by diddydicky

[Ganymede]

i would suggest you cut and paste your queery onto a new thread- that way you will get maximum response that tacking it onto an existing thread

 

in the meantime RELAX

 

you are 101% safe from the prospect of an order for sale

 

orders for sale are as rare as rocking horse poo and even if you had equity in your house- given your medical circumstances it would never occurr.

 

further whether you were average joe soap with no money- or richard branson- a judge would not order the sale of your house when there is little or no equity

 

the forced sale of a propery is NOT a punishment- it is a device for a creditor to recover a debt from a recalcitrant debtor

 

forcing the sale of a property when there would be nothing to give to the creditor would be of no benefit to anyone- hence a judge would not order it

 

finally, the creditor would not make the application - since if it were to happen- he would lose his security

 

what the creditor COULD do- is forgo his charging order and then apply for bamkruptcy- but given your circumstances he would not do that either since again he would get diddly squat and it would cost him a lot more money for nothing

 

so go make a cup of tea- and enjoy the rest if your life

 

 

 

While I agree that an OFS is relatively rare (although they are probably more common than you think!) I would not want to say with "101%" certainty that any debtor was ever safe although it is very unlikely given the circumstances you just never know which DJ you will get.

However, like I said I agree that in these circumstances you are probably about as safe as you can be from an OFS.

[cymruambyth]

Is there a time scale for notification of an interin CO?

[Ganymede]

Is there a time scale for notification of an interin CO?

 

 

 

Notification from whom?

 

The Land Registry will notify the owners of the application and are usually fairly quick about it.

[Basil Fawlty]

Can the Interim CO be placed before the judgement, or is it straight after?

 

BF

[cymruambyth]

Notification from whom?

 

The Land Registry will notify the owners of the application and are usually fairly quick about it.

 

Thank you, I have had a threat of one but have an installment order agreed with the court (post judgement )and a letter of agreement with the DCA, so I was wongdering if they could have applied for one before the installment order was agreed. Hope that makes sense; timings thus make it unlikely.

[diddydicky]

Can the Interim CO be placed before the judgement, or is it straight after?

 

BF

 

no- a creditor cannot apply for a charging order without first obtaining a judgement which the debtor has failed to comply with

[Basil Fawlty]

no- a creditor cannot apply for a charging order without first obtaining a judgement which the debtor has failed to comply with

 

Thanks dd, how is it that so many people who are paying by installments after a judgement, still have a CO, even without missing an installment?

 

BF

[diddydicky]

i dont know the details of individual circumstances but as a GENERAL RULE a creditor cannot apply for a CO unless a forthwith order is unpaid or a debtor fails to make the payments ordered

 

there are always exceptions

 

some debtors agree to a consent order whereby they accept a CO in return for the creditor agreeing to the repayments offered

 

in other cases, where for example there is a large debt (say £10,000) and the debtor is offering token payments, due to his circumstances- of say £20 per month - which means it would take 41 years to repay the debt........the creditor is usually able to ask the court to "secure" the debt in this way and which (IMO anyway) would not be unreasonable

 

if the creditor does not do this- the debtor could in a few years time sell the house and spend the proceeds- move into rented accomodation and stick two fingers up at the creditor- hence why in such circumstances the court would almost always grant the order

[Basil Fawlty]

i dont know the details of individual circumstances but as a GENERAL RULE a creditor cannot apply for a CO unless a forthwith order is unpaid or a debtor fails to make the payments ordered

 

there are always exceptions

 

some debtors agree to a consent order whereby they accept a CO in return for the creditor agreeing to the repayments offered

 

in other cases, where for example there is a large debt (say £10,000) and the debtor is offering token payments, due to his circumstances- of say £20 per month - which means it would take 41 years to repay the debt........the creditor is usually able to ask the court to "secure" the debt in this way and which (IMO anyway) would not be unreasonable

 

if the creditor does not do this- the debtor could in a few years time sell the house and spend the proceeds- move into rented accomodation and stick two fingers up at the creditor- hence why in such circumstances the court would almost always grant the order

 

Thanks dd, I suppose the ''forthwith order'' makes the difference, as if its a large amount most people wont be able to pay it and by the time installments have been applied for the CO has been granted.

When a judgement is granted, is it usually to be paid forthwith, or can it be in affordable installments right from the start, therefore giving the debtor the chance of not missing an installment and not having a CO applied? Can the debtor ask for installments straight after the judgement, in other words?

 

BF

[diddydicky]

you should always (IMO) go to court prepared to lose and have your I & E and offers of payment already to hand (4 copies) so that you can apply to have the repayments added to the CCJ

 

technically a creditor can apply for a co against a forthwith order the next day although it would be more usual to allow the debtor 28 days to pay

 

you can apply for a stay to prevent the creditor from taking further action - at the same time as applying for a re determination order if the creditor does not accept your repayment proposals

[Basil Fawlty]

you should always (IMO) go to court prepared to lose and have your I & E and offers of payment already to hand (4 copies) so that you can apply to have the repayments added to the CCJ

 

technically a creditor can apply for a co against a forthwith order the next day although it would be more usual to allow the debtor 28 days to pay

 

you can apply for a stay to prevent the creditor from taking further action - at the same time as applying for a re determination order if the creditor does not accept your repayment proposals

 

So really its down to the mood of the judge as to whether or not its a forthwith order? Good advice by the way dd, to be prepared with payment plans and an I and E if you lose the judgement.

 

BF

[diddydicky]

well the normal assumption is that ALL ccj's are "forthwith" orders

 

by which i mean if one loises one is then expected to pay - forthwith- game over

 

so an application to pay by instalments is an application that is made to "vary" the forthwith order- usually obviously on the grounds that you cannot afford to pay forthwith

 

nothing to do with the "mood" of the judge

 

always use the CCCS or Payplan formula's are these are readily accepted as the norm in court

 

do some research on the "trigger figures"- which are the amounts, above which the creditor might challenge the amounts you are claiming as expenses

[Basil Fawlty]

well the normal assumption is that ALL ccj's are "forthwith" orders

 

by which i mean if one loises one is then expected to pay - forthwith- game over

 

so an application to pay by instalments is an application that is made to "vary" the forthwith order- usually obviously on the grounds that you cannot afford to pay forthwith

 

nothing to do with the "mood" of the judge

 

always use the CCCS or Payplan formula's are these are readily accepted as the norm in court

 

do some research on the "trigger figures"- which are the amounts, above which the creditor might challenge the amounts you are claiming as expenses

 

 

I didnt realise that a forthwith was the normal assumption, I was under the impression it was down to the judge, so I've certainly learnt something today thanks dd.

Thanks for all your help today, but can I ask your opinion on one more thing, and I wont bother you again dd, lol?

 

If you hold a number of credit cards, say 5 for example, and you go to court for the first one and you lose.....you show your I and E and you pay by installments. What would happen if the other 4 go against you too? Would the installments be changed after every judgement so that you could pay towards all of them?

 

BF

[sequenci]

well the normal assumption is that ALL ccj's are "forthwith" orders

 

Surely there can be a judgment granted on determination rather than 'forthwith' using the determination of means guidelines?

[diddydicky]

I presume you are assuming that all court cases are involved with credit agreements

 

the judge has no way of knowing pre judgement- whether the defendant defended on principle and has the money- or if the defendant is skint!

 

(IMO) therefore by definition a judgement is deemed forthwith (the loser lost and must now pay)

 

it would be up to the loser then surely to make an application that he was skint and could not afford to settle the judgement forthwith and plead for time to pay

 

a court case is about one person claiming something is owed to him and the other defending

 

at the end of the trial the decision is either for the claimant or the defendant

 

the loser is then expected to pay. I

 

the court system allows for the fact that a person may genuinely dispute a matter and not that they have no money to pay- which is why the court system allows that if the judgement is settled within 28 days then no record of the judgement is entered in the court registry files.

 

i stand to be corrected but that has always been my understanding

[sequenci]

the judge has no way of knowing pre judgement- whether the defendant defended on principle and has the money- or if the defendant is skint!

 

I think this might be where I'm getting my wires crossed. Some folks will file an admission via the n9a form - which requires a statment of the 'defendants' means, rather than trying to defend their claim.

 

I'm guessing that you're talking more about cases where a defence has been raised, and so if they lose then it would be a 'forthwith' unless the defendant can request an instalment order to be granted?

[phatram]

Got my hearing soon and what concerns me is the amount of costs (another con) and whether interest can be added. It was not asked for in the Judgement by consent. But then again they were supposed to be asking me to pay a lower figure and never did. It completely slipped my mind at that moment in time .

[diddydicky]

I think this might be where I'm getting my wires crossed. Some folks will file an admission via the n9a form - which requires a statment of the 'defendants' means, rather than trying to defend their claim.

 

I'm guessing that you're talking more about cases where a defence has been raised, and so if they lose then it would be a 'forthwith' unless the defendant can request an instalment order to be granted?

 

yep

[Basil Fawlty]

I think this might be where I'm getting my wires crossed. Some folks will file an admission via the n9a form - which requires a statment of the 'defendants' means, rather than trying to defend their claim.

 

I'm guessing that you're talking more about cases where a defence has been raised, and so if they lose then it would be a 'forthwith' unless the defendant can request an instalment order to be granted?

 

If you were paying the creditor a small amount every month, and they still took you to court, would the n9a form be the one to fill in to show how much you can afford, and would this stop the court hearing going ahead?

 

BF

[sequenci]

If you were paying the creditor a small amount every month, and they still took you to court, would the n9a form be the one to fill in to show how much you can afford, and would this stop the court hearing going ahead?

 

BF

 

If you were paying a small amount and then the creditor took you to court, it would be the n9a form you would complete if you wanted to admit the debt and make an offer to pay in instalments.

[Ganymede]

If you were paying the creditor a small amount every month, and they still took you to court, would the n9a form be the one to fill in to show how much you can afford, and would this stop the court hearing going ahead?

 

BF

 

 

Yes that is the form you would send to show how much you can afford to pay but no it would not stop the court hearing, in fact you would have a CCJ registered against you for the full amount but you could be ordered to pay by installments. However, just because you complete the N9A it does not mean that the judge will grant an installment order.

[phatram]

Does anyone have a template for a letter arguing that the property is in joint names of myself and my husband, but the CO is in his sole name? Or can anyone advise me as to how I should word such a letter? Also, it is my wages that pay the mortgage each month, not my husbands part-time wage. Can anybody help please?

 

Mrs P

Edited February 19, 2011 by phatram

[cymruambyth]

I'm back ...... CCJ awarded, installments agreed with DCA (who also advised that they would be taking further enforcement action). Court application made and installment order in place; all payments made on time. CCJ is for just under £10,000, payments £40 pcm.

Letter from court to say case vacated and a new date given; phone court to say it's an interim CO application and that I probably shouldn't have been told by court and should receive papers from the DCA. Nothing had been received.

I will defend, is Mercantile v Ellis relevant even if installment order is new but complied with? Also property jointly owned, just my debt and other creditors etc.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thank you

[sequenci]

Was the instalment arrangement agreed prior to their application for the interim charge?