old first national bank loan with old CCJ, now with Link

[buggaluggs]

Can anyone advise me please.

 

My husband and I are on a DMP and in the last two weeks I have received letters about a debt that I took in 1999 with my ex partner.

 

It was for a kitchen and was taken out through first national.

 

We defaulted on the loan, split up and moved on.

 

I wrote to the DCA stating that the debt was staute barred and they have repied with a copy of the judgement obtained in my absence in june 2000.

 

I was not aware of this CCJ and I have honestly never seen it on my credit file.

 

So, I now have an outstanding CCJ from 9 years ago that they are only now pursuing.

 

The amount owed seems to vary considerably.

 

One letter states £4500 approx.

 

The letter i received today with a copy of the judgement,

states that the total amount they can legally recover is £37.500

which is the debt of £4500 plus interest from 10 years.

 

but if i pay in full within 21 days they have kindly dropped it to £9500.

 

CCCS cannot help me and the company they passed me onto say that I am liable,

CCJS last forever and I will have to pay.

 

They just advised that I wrote to them asking for the exact amount owed and query the interest charges.

 

When I said to the debt advisor today that I thought once a CCJ had been obtained then no more interest is added,

he said that companies can go back to courts and ask them to grant something that allows them to continue charging interest.

 

I am in total shock.

 

I was 19 when I took the debt out with my stupid ex.

 

He should also be liable I would have thought but again according to the debt advisor, if they cannot find him then I am liable for the full amount.

 

I have come on here in the hope that someone can tell me something different.

 

Even though it has taken them 9 years I cannot imagine that they will now drop this and will pursue the full £37k which obviously I havnt got.

 

The debt advisor also told me that even if they tak it back to court and I write a statement etc the judge wouldnt be interested in us as individuals and our circumstances, they would just grant whatever the creditors wanted within reason.

 

I thought us consumers had some protection but it seems not.

 

Help

[r&b]

have u done any document requests yet?

credit agreement/SAR for example.

 

if not, thats ur starting point,

together with a request to the relevant court

(enclose £5 for 10 sheets ask if it extends to more to use the backs)

for copies of the claim form plus any documents attached.

 

if u want to get this sorted u need to build a case for setting aside the judgment

which means going back to the point of the original claim.

 

there can be cost implications with this route

however, so u need to see how strong ur case is to make up your mind whether to pursue.

 

it will undoubtedly end in u going to court too, so bear that in mind.

 

i think these things come under joint and several (if i rememebr correctly)

so if u sort the debt the other party is automatically off the hook too and vice versa.

i stand to be corrected on that tho.

 

id be interested to see just what interest they have included in the £37k

which will be on the Particulars Of Claim on the original claim form unless they have applied since.

they will require a valid enforceable Credit Agreement on which to base that.

 

best bet is to get off the requests if u havent dun so already and see what comes back,

if anything and assess the situation from there.

 

check out the cag library for template letters and send anth recd del

(with£1 for CA rqst and £10 for SAR) and dont sign anth.

 

keep all correspondence incl envelopes either recvd or sent from now on.

 

added: there is actually a case of a 13yr old debt being set aside

so have a gd look round the site there are several that may help.

Edited May 26, 2009 by r&b
added

[buggaluggs]

i havnt requestd docs yet but I will do that now thanx.

 

The judgement was set for just below £4500k in june 2000, the remainder £32500k has been added in interest since the date of judgement.

 

All it says on the statement is 'interest' and 'charges'

 

What do you mean by getting the judgement set aside?

 

Would we be able to get free legal help with this if we meet the financial criterie do you think?

 

If we cannot get financial help and cannot afford it ourselves then where does that leave us?

[I've got no money]

Can you post a copy of the CCJ - remove anything from it that identifies you. Is it a County Court Judgment or is it a High Court Judgment

 

There are two ways of obtaining information - the first is to contact the county court and to obtain a copy of the original claim form - there might be a copy of the original agreement with that.

 

The other thing as r & b suggests is a data protection act Subject Access Request.

 

As far as setting aside the judgment is concerned - if you can establish that you have a defence to the original claim then you can apply to set the judgment aside, on an N244. The starting point is to find if you have a defence or not.

 

Can you post copies of any relevant documents that you have

[r&b]

i havnt requestd docs yet but I will do that now thanx.

 

The judgement was set for just below £4500k in june 2000, the remainder £32500k has been added in interest since the date of judgement.

 

All it says on the statement is 'interest' and 'charges'

 

What do you mean by getting the judgement set aside?

 

Would we be able to get free legal help with this if we meet the financial criterie do you think?

 

If we cannot get financial help and cannot afford it ourselves then where does that leave us?

 

in trying to set aside a judgment we are trying to return to the point before judgment was made..ie the point of claim, BUT u have to have very gd reasons to get that far, hence the need for documentation on which to base the argument.

this is a useful site, this link will explain:

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 12 How To Set Aside A Judgment In The County Court

 

the reason im interested in the interest they charge is that often, they try and impose an interest chge that they are not allowed. doesnt mean its set in stone but u see it a lot on here.

u will have to look into the free legal advice bit urself, i cant comment on that im afraid.

if u spend some time going thru the site u will find pretty much everything u need. it takes time and patience but the help is here, whether thats gd news or bad, which at the moment we dont know.

i would get the requests off (send the CA and SAR in the same envelope if u like, saves postage) and once u start to get some replies u will be in a better situation to assess where u are. by that point i wud imagine u will have had plenty of help on here too.

 

added: IGNM is the man for the job here. u shud listen to his advice in my opinion

Edited May 26, 2009 by r&b
added

[buggaluggs]

thanks for advice so far, I have done my letters using the templates found on here and will post first thing.

 

I havnt seen the CCJ on my credit file so does it still need to be 'set aside'??

 

I thought it was more worrying that they will attempt to re-open the debt in the court and try for the full 37K as opposed to the £4500 on the first letter I received from them.

 

The original judgement is a county court not high court, can you explain what is meant by a defence to the original claim?? on what grounds could that work?

[I've got no money]

thanks for advice so far, I have done my letters using the templates found on here and will post first thing.

 

I havnt seen the CCJ on my credit file so does it still need to be 'set aside'??

 

Just because its' not recorded with the Credit Reference Agencies does not stop it being a CCJ

 

I thought it was more worrying that they will attempt to re-open the debt in the court and try for the full 37K as opposed to the £4500 on the first letter I received from them.

 

The starting point is to clarify whether you actually owe anything

 

The original judgement is a county court not high court, can you explain what is meant by a defence to the original claim?? on what grounds could that work?

 

You don't usually get interest on county court judgments - there are a range of possible defences without seeing the documents I don't know if any of them are likely to work

[buggaluggs]

thanks.

 

i have attached the letters i have and i will post others when i receive them, i could only scan 5 out of the six pages.

 

what happens after the 40days if they do not comply with CA/SAR request?

 

incidentally, is it 40 working or just 40 days? and is that from the date sent or received?

 

ok, whilst scanning the docs, i notice something i missed before.

 

There are 2 account numbers, instant silver are the ones I first heard from and I wrote to them telling them the debt was statute barred quoting the account number from their letter to me(i now know its not statute barred due to ccj)

 

the two letters i received today (attached)

 

another one from instant silver, again quoting the same account number stating i owe £4288.05

 

the one from asset link is replying to my letter to instant silver (the companies are the same i think) enclosing a copy of the judgement obtained. however, the account numbers on their reply are different and there is now two of them!!

 

so, 2 account numbers in total, i am now even more confused.

 

it also looks like £15 in payments were made in 2005, they didnt come from me, so i suspect they may have been in correspondence withe the ex

 

on the SAR request, should I quote all 3 account number?? and will it stil just cost me the £1 or £3 (for all 3)

[havinastella]

I think you'll find that even if they obtained a CCJ, they still have to show exceptional circumstances to collect this after 6 years and ONLY after they have asked a Judge for permission.

 

Don't worry about the £37000 odd interest thats all rubbish and a scare tactic to make you pay the most you can.

 

I'm sure the CCJ is stat barred though!

 

Jogs

[havinastella]

County Court Judgement

 

If the creditor has previously taken you to court and you have received a County Court Judgement, you will be unable to use the Limitations Act 1980 to dispute the debt. If the judgement is over 6 years old the creditor may need the permission of the Court to enforce the debt.

[I've got no money]

I'd write and point out that the CCJ is for £4275.80 tell them its' the first that you've heard of the claim and ask for a copy of the both the original summons and also for a copy of the agreement that they say allows them to claim interest.

[buggaluggs]

I'd write and point out that the CCJ is for £4275.80 tell them its' the first that you've heard of the claim and ask for a copy of the both the original summons and also for a copy of the agreement that they say allows them to claim interest.

 

will the cca/sar request cover the original summons and agreement?

 

or should i request them separately

[Spamalot]

By looking at the Judgement they would only have been able to add interest if the amount was £5000 or more etc. (small print bottom right)

So unless they went back to the court and requested it I don't see how they can add it!

[buggaluggs]

By looking at the Judgement they would only have been able to add interest if the amount was £5000 or more etc. (small print bottom right)

So unless they went back to the court and requested it I don't see how they can add it!

 

while messing around with photobucket i thought maybe they are letting me know just how much interest i would have to pay if they did go back to the court now, but surely a court wouldnt authorise that would they.

 

it also says if the debt attracts contractual or statutory interest for late payment they may be entitled to more interestm but surely not another £32k

[Spamalot]

while messing around with photobucket i thought maybe they are letting me know just how much interest i would have to pay if they did go back to the court now, but surely a court wouldnt authorise that would they.

 

it also says if the debt attracts contractual or statutory interest for late payment they may be entitled to more interestm but surely not another £32k

 

It would depend on the credit agreement you entered into. That is why it is important to get a copy of the document you signed to begin with!

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 18 Interest Charges On A Consumer Credit Judgment

 

Have a read of this it might be of help

[buggaluggs]

It would depend on the credit agreement you entered into. That is why it is important to get a copy of the document you signed to begin with!

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 18 Interest Charges On A Consumer Credit Judgment

 

Have a read of this it might be of help

 

if i receive confirmation that interest can be added after judgement, will i be able to challenge it as being unfair? or would i just have to pay it?

 

37k on top of what i already owe is likely to make me bankcrupt and lose everything

[Spamalot]

My personal advice would be as R&B and IGNM have said. Send off for all the information you can get by SAR, or at least for copy of CA and take it from there. Until you know what you are dealing with it's difficult to say which route to take. As soon as you get a copy of the agreement you can see where you stand as to whether it was regulated etc. and or if it is enforceable. The SAR would be the best one to use so that you can get copies of defaults etc. It's surprising what turns up sometimes!

 

My quest to begin with, was about interest on a CCJ and it's now turned into a whole new ball game.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/192275-ccj-interest-debt.html

 

Don't panic, you will get lots of support along the way and good luck.

[buggaluggs]

when sending my cca/sar request should i put a letter in asking for prrof that they were allowed to add interest after judgment or does the cca/sar request cover this (if there is one of course)

 

should i also query why there is two account numbers?

[Spamalot]

Hiya,

If you send a SAR it is requesting ALL the Data they hold on you and should include everything you need to know. Just adapt it to suit you specifcally. By seeing the credit agreement you should be able to find out whether they were entitled to interest after judgement or not.

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

 

You may already have a copy of this but it here's another one.

[r&b]

County Court Judgement

 

If the creditor has previously taken you to court and you have received a County Court Judgement, you will be unable to use the Limitations Act 1980 to dispute the debt. If the judgement is over 6 years old the creditor may need the permission of the Court to enforce the debt.

 

this seems to have slipped thru... surely this has some bearing and shud be used to take the pressure off? i know it says MAY but any ideas for a letter perhaps? would buggs be able to write/apply to the court for this? should buy time for some disclosure at least.

 

[I've got no money]

will the cca/sar request cover the original summons and agreement?

 

or should i request them separately

 

Technically they don't have to respond to a CCA request as there is a ccj and the SAR takes up to 40 days.

 

I would do the SAR anyway but if you write separately as well you might get them more quickly

[buggaluggs]

Technically they don't have to respond to a CCA request as there is a ccj and the SAR takes up to 40 days.

 

I would do the SAR anyway but if you write separately as well you might get them more quickly

 

so if they dont respond where does that leave me? how can i take it further without knowing all the facts

[I've got no money]

Ultimately you'll get the information through the SAR - if they refuse point blank to respond then you'll have to consider applying to the court but at this point I wouldn't start to panic just yet - take it stage by stage

[buggaluggs]

i have recived a response to my cca/sar today.

 

i have been sent a copy of the agreement and a separate agreement for the ppi (hence two account numbers)

 

a copy of the judgement obtained, not sure if that is for both accounts or just one.

 

a print of all interest charged, but doesnt break it down,

 

a transcript of what looks like their efforts to tracemy ex partner and then most recently me.

 

nothing whatsover mentioning the after judgement interest

 

what shall i do now?

[I've got no money]

Post all the docs on here - and we'll see if we think you can get it set aside

 

You need to remove anything that identifies you