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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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Anatomy of a Default Notice


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Even if the date of the letter was accepted as a working day for postal service it would still be four days short if 1st class & six days 2nd class.

 

A court assumes it was sent 2nd class unless the creditor can prove otherwise, but in this case even if they swore on the Bible/Koran/Tanakh or Lord of the Rings that it was posted 1st class it would still be defective. ;)

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Date of Posting, 29th December 2008

30th Dec = +1 - in transit

31st Dec = +2 - Date of Service

1st Jan = 1st Clear Day

If it had been posted first class the working days for service would be 30th & 31st for you to receive it on the 1st, but as that was New Years Day there was no postal service it's a Bank Holiday, so you couldn't have received it until at least the 2nd. Now add 14 days for remedy = 16th.
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I was a bit previous above, 'cos I just cannot get

my head around another DN... to be absolutely sure....

 

The letter is dated Monday, 29th December 2008,

the remeday date is given as BEFORE January 12th.

 

On the face of it, Date of Service would appear to be

Wednesday, 31st, the first Clear Day being New Years

Day, 1st January 2009.

 

Is this correct, if not, would some patient cagger

please explain.

 

Getting there slowly, MANY THANKS,

 

charlie

 

PS: My user name should have been "gettingthereslowly" :confused:

 

I don't think you need to worry about date of service etc at all - they left 14 days dead in the first place, and then because of the lovely wording on DN's you had to pay before the 12th, which left you 13 days to pay even if they hand delivered it to you on the 29th!

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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My prize framed one is dated Christmas Eve (a wednesday). Even if Royal Mail 1st Class couldn't have arrived till New Yrs Eve 31st. Date for remedy..3rd Jan. Bless them! Best Christmas present ever.

This may well go to court. Do you think there would be any possibility of getting a CFA in place for this type of case, DD?

 

well i would have thought so

 

CFA lawyers are businesses

 

clear cut cases i would imagine would be of great appeal to them!!

 

important that you point out the failing to them in writing i think and also send them a copy of the judges comments in BOS v Robert Mitchell

where he told BOS that having continued with the action - in the face of having been made aware of simple and irrefutable points of law by the defendant they were very close to abuse of the court and were made to pay costs on an indemnity basis

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Cerberus....

 

This is the root of my confusion.... you say in your post above....

 

'No matter how you look at it, it is defective. If it was posted 1st class they have to allow 2 working days for service so you couldn't have possibly received it before 2nd Jan (New Years day is not a working day), as the Date of Posting is Monday, 29th Dec why are you not classing Wed 31st as a working day? add the 14 days to remedy and it should be 16th, they said remedy before 12th which in effect means by the 11th which means it's 5 days short. If it was posted 2nd class it would be 7 days short'.

 

Date of Posting, 29th December 2008

30th Dec = +1 - in transit

31st Dec = +2 - Date of Service

1st Jan = 1st Clear Day

 

Thanks muchly,

charlie

 

 

if the DN was posted on the 29th then it was deemed to have been served on the 31st (wednesday) if posted first class

 

the 14 clear days start from the day after service- which is the 1st January and the fact of this being a bank Holiday is of no consequence- the 14 days do not excuse weekends and bank holidays

 

therefore by 1st class postage in this instance you would have until 14 january 2009 in which to remedy the alleged default

 

if is was posted 2nd class on the 29th then you would have been deemed served on Tuesday 6th January 2009 and would have had until 20th January to remedey the alleged default

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If it had been posted first class the working days for service would be 30th & 31st for you to receive it on the 1st, but as that was New Years Day there was no postal service it's a Bank Holiday, so you couldn't have received it until at least the 2nd. Now add 14 days for remedy = 16th.

 

 

i think you are not quite correct here

 

the DN is deemed to have been served ON the second working day after posting

 

NOT AFTER the second working day after posting

 

a DN posted on a Monday by First class willl be deemed served on the Wednesday

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well i would have thought so

 

CFA lawyers are businesses

 

clear cut cases i would imagine would be of great appeal to them!!

 

important that you point out the failing to them in writing i think and also send them a copy of the judges comments in BOS v Robert Mitchell

where he told BOS that having continued with the action - in the face of having been made aware of simple and irrefutable points of law by the defendant they were very close to abuse of the court and were made to pay costs on an indemnity basis

 

Thanks for the reply DD :)

Good point about the quote.

I've already accepted the termination, in the midst of a longer letter as there's unfair relationship/irresponsible lending issues here too, although the agreement is OK.

It's such an outstandingly poor DN I'd love this to become a test case! They could hardly claim de minimus here. It's a large debt too so you'd think they'd be more careful.

Elsa x

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Am I missing something with this DN?

 

29th Dec 08 to 12th Jan 09 is 14 days flat isn't it? No days allowed for service at all, and must pay before the remedy date. Even if it was a standard two weeks with no bank holidays etc it would not be valid, so why is so much importance being given to whether or not it was served on x date and whether x date was a bank holiday?

 

It seems that all the extra info is just muddying the point that it can't be valid whatever the date it was delivered. :confused:

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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simply because whilst in this case the DN is defective at any rate

 

it would be quite wrong for caggers - especially those still trying to get their heads around how they work.........to be under a false impression as to the "deemed date of service" of a DN

 

remember people are learning from these threads as well as those directly involved!- and want to be able to work out how their own DN's are relevant

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Hi Elsa & All,

 

This info is very useful. I have a query of my own. My flat was repossessed in September 2008. I had 2 outstanding credit card debts. On my credit file I am shown as defaulting on one agreement in March 2009 and the other in July 2009. I didn't tell either credit card company that I was moving (I was officially homeless - staying in a hotel but no fixed address) so would not have received a Default Notice from either credit card comapany.

 

My question is, were they entitled to show my credit file as defaulted when I never received a Default Notice and therefore didn't have the opportunity to remidy the situation?

 

Thanks,

 

Skint

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I get that, but from what I could see no-one mentioned at any point that the default was wrong whatever the service date was - I'd say that is important info as it would alleviate doubt on the part of the poster and would then allow them to get their heads around the intricacies of service etc with a clear head.

 

It also illustrates to people learning from the threads that if they receive a DN with those properties it will never be valid.

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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Hi Elsa & All,

 

This info is very useful. I have a query of my own. My flat was repossessed in September 2008. I had 2 outstanding credit card debts. On my credit file I am shown as defaulting on one agreement in March 2009 and the other in July 2009. I didn't tell either credit card company that I was moving (I was officially homeless - staying in a hotel but no fixed address) so would not have received a Default Notice from either credit card comapany.

 

My question is, were they entitled to show my credit file as defaulted when I never received a Default Notice and therefore didn't have the opportunity to remidy the situation?

 

Thanks,

 

Skint

 

Unfortunately the reason you didn't get a DN was probably because you'd not informed them of a change of address so I don't think this would have much mileage as an argument.

 

I do hope your situation has improved, it must have been dreadfully stressful.

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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yep they did- i think crebusalert made it clear that the DN itself was defective in any event

 

Yes he did, but still in relation to posting dates and working days...

 

No matter how you look at it, it is defective. If it was posted 1st class they have to allow 2 working days for service so you couldn't have possibly received it before 2nd Jan (New Years day is not a working day), add the 14 days to remedy and it should be 16th, they said remedy before 12th which in effect means by the 11th which means it's 5 days short. If it was posted 2nd class it would be 7 days short.

Time flies like an arrow...

Fruit flies like a banana.

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To me, the 'ordinary course of post' means that letters are dropped in the nearest post box on leaving the office for the day at 5pm and usually delivered anytime from 8.30 am to midday.

When I worked for a very large company, yonks ago the post was collected by Royal Mail in the late afternoon from the post room - around 5pm, I recall.

Edited by charlie*
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lets get this straight......

 

 

if it is posted on the 29th first class- it is deemed served ON the second working day after posting

 

posted 29th (monday) 1st working day 30th (tuesday) 2nd working day 31st (Wednesday) -therefore it is served on the 31st (this being the second working day after posting

 

it does not matter what time of day it was posted - if the claimant swears that it was posted on 29th and it was dated that day- then that is what the court will accept (unless you can prove otherwise)

 

forget all talk of "in transit"

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  • 2 weeks later...
if the claimant swears that it was posted on 29th and it was dated that day- then that is what the court will accept (unless you can prove otherwise)

 

They may swear that it was posted that day, backed up by their computer records, but without proof of posting how can a court determine whether it was posted 1st or 2nd class?

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If they have a witness statement saying it was posted 1st a court would accept that. However most companies now send letter 2nd class (or worse) the only OC I'm personally aware of that send letters 1st are Capone.

 

Generally each company uses the same postal service for all mail.

 

Pumpytums

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