FTA -vs- Capital One

[FightThemAll]

Hi everyone,

 

I have a credit card with Capital One..I have paid SO much money back to them for going over limit in the first instance by less than £100 - this was a year a go and despite the hundreds of pounds I have paid somehow I keep still oweing them an over the limit amount.

 

Despite numerous requests to be put on an arrangement - they have refused, offering my something VERY unaffordable so that they can (and they have) continued to charge huge interest each month, as well as over limit and late payment charges.

 

My credit file looks unbeleiveabley horrible thanks to them and the stress has become too much!

 

Therefore after some research I have:

 

- Sent CCA letter - to which they sent a COPY of the agreement T&Cs

- Sent the dispute letter - account now in default state

 

However, they call everyday 3 or 4 times and today I answered and they claim that they responded to my letter a few days ago and they sent a default notice sent on the same day!!!

 

On the dispute letter it says:

 

" Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data."

 

and

 

" You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint."

 

Is that 14 & 21 working days or normal days?

 

And if that time passes what do I do next??

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[silverfox1961]

The only working days are for the CCA request. Any other day is straight unless you are generous and give them working days.

Doesn't really matter either way because CAP1 will totally ignore you anyway.

[FightThemAll]

Thanks..I would give 14+a few days for postage nothing more. Just to be on the safe side if it went to court. Although, thinking about it, why should I? It's not like they ever do!!

 

So does that mean I should just sit tight until they answer me in writing and not answer any of their calls? Or is there another letter to send, or something else to do?

 

The biggest worry is that they will continue to harass (which they will and are) which is annoying, but more importantly that they will default the account as the lady said they have sent one out along with an imaginary letter a few days ago :s

[silverfox1961]

You could always send them this letter along with the Account in Dispute letter.

Harassment by telephone - Consumer Wiki

THE GOLDEN RULE IS NEVER TO SPEAK TO THEM ON THE PHONE UNLESS YOU CAN RECORD THE CALL.

 

You could start playing with them. Ask them security question. They do it to you so why can't you do it back

[FightThemAll]

Thanks, I might just do that ;-)

[FightThemAll]

As expected....They sent a default notice for overlimit amount, one day before sending the letter rejecting my letter disputing the account on basis of no CCA sent...

 

The default notice

 

 

 

 

Is there anything wrong with this in case I need to argue from a different angle and not on basis of no CCA?

 

 

The letter

 

 

 

Is what they are saying true - about not needing to send signed one, etc etc. Does that mean the account is NOT in default? :?

 

Although, I guess if they are insisting on no sending one it means they cant find it...which is good right?

[FightThemAll]

Do I need to make them bigger?

[silverfox1961]

In my humble opinion, the default notice is invalid.

 

They are saying that you must rectify the default by the date shown.

ERRMM, What date?

 

They should have given you a specific date to rectify, not 28 days from the date of the letter.

 

Report them to the OFT, Trading Standardsand your MP as they have breached the OFT rules by defaulting you while the account is in dispute

[FightThemAll]

Are there any templates for that..Or just a standard complaint?

 

Also, anything with regards to the letter they sent back regarding CCA and account in dispute. The whole point is they are trying to argue that account is NOT in dispute...

[the_shadow]

Taken from Consumer credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983

 

 

3

A specification of:--

(a) the provision of the agreement alleged to have been breached; and

(b) the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement, specifying clearly the matters complained of; and either

© if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date, being a date [not less than

fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which that action is to be taken; or

(d) if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach and

the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which it is to be paid.

 

Says nothing about x number of days, it says DATE. Certainly a point I would argue over.

 

S.

[FightThemAll]

I think what I should do is send them another letter back regarding their rejection of my letter disputing the account and ALSO mention the above...

 

But the question is, is what they are saying in their letter true??

 

"your personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature have been ommited from the copy provided, as permitted under Regulation 3 of Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copy Documents) 1983."

 

Is this true? But everything in the template I sent says they MUST provide me with that by law....

 

So is this CCA enforceable?? If not, then they can continue to try and process the default and it shouldnt be that difficult to get it removed if necessary....?

[FightThemAll]

bump

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

 

what they are saying is true.

What strikes me is that if they had the signed agreement, why wouldn't they send it and save all this bloody hassle and argument.

 

You say you have paid lots in charges so why not do a SAR. When this request is sent, they are supposed to send everything they hold on you, including the "fully executed, signed agreement" If by some miracle they do have your agreement, then you could do a charges reclaim.

 

I'm hoping that our Ms Renshaw now terminates your account. If she does that, you would only be liable for the arrears as the default notice is duff (in my opinion) and only if they have your agreement.

 

Don't forget to report them. They think they are above the law

 

fox

[meerkatsmimm]

Hi FTA,

 

Ive yet to post it up, but CAP1 sent me the same letter in your post 6 (the second letter in your post) in response to my CPR request!

 

They really dont feel that they have to offer us poor folk any answers to any of our questions.

 

I particularly like the sentence:

 

'You clearly have a valid and enforceable agreement with Capital 1'...

 

How will we ever know that if they dont provide us with what we are asking for!!!!!

 

Its all amazing stuff, what would a judge think to their avoidance of legal requests?

 

Subbing and all the best with your fight with them.

 

meerkat x

[FightThemAll]

Silverfox...Thanks for the comments, but thats a little confusing. In the standard CCA templates we send, consumer mention this and that regulation which says they must supply true SIGNED copy - but then how can it possible for them to be able to NOT send a true and signed copy by some other regulation or subsection?!?!? Its contradictory!

 

My plan of action was to CCA and if agreement unenforceable take my time and pay back what I owe at my very long leisure...If it didnt work, then Subject Access Request and claim the charges that way...

 

So they HAVE fully complied with CCA and therefore agreement is enforceable and I have to go through a different route??

[FightThemAll]

Don't forget to report them. They think they are above the law

 

How can I report them if they have complied?

 

Should I Subject Access Request, or possibly CPR route - maybe both?

[silverfox1961]

There is a saying on the forum, "Slowly,slowly, catchee monkey"

 

As daft as it is, the OC is allowed to send the CCA with the details omitted. I think the law wasn't thought out quite right when it was drafted.

 

If you decide to cpr them, only do so if you are going to follow through with court action if they fail to deliver. I was going to but my finances fell a little short when needed( my fight was with Lowells)

 

SAR is the best bet as they have to send everything they have (supposedly) and if they send you exactly the same as they have already sent you then it will be fair to assume they don't have a valid copy of your agreement.

 

You have a valid complaint as they have defaulted you while the account is in dispute.

[beachcomber60]

My SAR didnt produce a valid agreement or any agreement, under cca request they supplied the same rubbish as most c1 caggers have.

 

Dodgy DN followed by 'termination'.

 

Debitas threaten legal action which 'opened the door' for a full cpr 31.16 request which was ignored & followed by account returning to capone.

 

Currently following the same route with capquest.

 

Opinion is if they had an enforceable cca they'd take legal action.

 

Beachy

[FightThemAll]

Ok, so I will send S.A.R tomorrow, along with complaints to OFT and Trading Standards...

 

All I can find are these letters to Banking Code Standards Board & ICO about defaulting a disputed account. Are these the ones, or something else I should be sending to OFT and Trading Standards?

 

Also, they my complaint will be about the THREAT of defaulting the account as this has not actually been applied yet..Correct?

[FightThemAll]

Update:

 

S.A.R has been sent and I have put CRAs on notice. However, I have still not complained to anyone yet, please see previous post

[silverfox1961]

Morning,

The issuing of a default notice whether or not they follow through with it is cause for complaint as they shouldn't be doing so while the account is in dispute. I know they disagree with you about it as they say they have complied but as you've found out, what they say and what they mean are two different things.

 

You can complain online to the OFT,the ICO, the FOS and Cap1's local trading standards. You could also contact your MP (if they have time between claiming their expenses) and the MP for cap1's constituency (although he won't be able to deal with you directly(you're not a constituent))

 

fox

[the_shadow]

Morning,

The issuing of a default notice whether or not they follow through with it is cause for complaint as they shouldn't be doing so while the account is in dispute. I know they disagree with you about it as they say they have complied but as you've found out, what they say and what they mean are two different things.

 

You can complain online to the OFT,the ICO, the FOS and Cap1's local trading standards. You could also contact your MP (if they have time between claiming their expenses) and the MP for cap1's constituency (although he won't be able to deal with you directly(you're not a constituent))

 

fox

 

Just to add there arent really any template letters for these complaints as each case is different or has different aspects. Organizations tend to ignore template letters the same as we do when we get sent them.

 

S.

[FightThemAll]

Received response to SAR today. Very confusing as usual...

 

What is getting even more confusing is they send a default notice, then a termination notice, then a letter from DCA saying account closed, then a letter from Cap1 for default sums...Its really very messy

 

I will send them a prelim request for payment hopefully this week coming..BUT will this affect my claim of invalid CCA and therefore no agreement?!

 

How can i claim money back if I am disputing the agreements validity...??

[Turnaround]

Hi

 

I have been helping my OH with Cap 1 for some time now, and on going through her files came across this blank (unsigned) original Cap1 agreement that originates from 2004 and thought it might be of some use.

 

I have removed the name, address and barcodes only.

 

If you compare the blank signature box with yours and others on this site, I would suggest that you could see a difference in the lines contained within that box. You might also conclude, as others have how different that signature box appears from the original.

 

Furthermore, previous caggers have rightly noted the distinct lack of prescribed terms, this is because this is an application for credit and not a Credit Agreement. This word application is mentioned on three occasions within the text, twice in the first para and once in the third.

 

And the infamous section 23 does not appear overleaf .

 

Hope this helps

 

Kind regards……….

 

 

[FightThemAll]

This is getting out of hand. A few days without responding to this DCA and they have arranged a doorstep visit to my home!!! Complaining to whoever it may be is not the answer, there has to be something else I can do! Please help, this is all getting a bit much now....It seemed so clear cut to begin with, no CCA so I can ignore until it is produced, but they are getting away with this harassment and it is not fair