Lexis200 v Lloyds (Gold card acc)

[lexis200]

Hello all:)

 

I'm hoping people will be able to confirm what I think, and possibly give me a nudge as to how to proceed!

 

About 2 years ago (and pre-CAG) I entered a payment plan with Lloyds. Soon after it started, they cocked up with what I was meant to be paying and when, and I got issued with a default notice, shortly followed by a legal proceedings letter from the lovely [problem].

 

Back then, this completely freaked me (it's a bl**dy large debt), and I phoned them to find out what was going on. I was told it was standard procedure and to bin the letters.

 

Well, needless to say, despite not knowing about my rights, I kept the letters.

 

I recently decided to have another look at them, and I think my default notice is pretty much ok apart from one glaring error with the arrears amount, but I know the termination letter is screwed as they issued it before the remedy date on the notice!

 

so, default notice is as follows

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/lloydsdn1.jpg

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/lloydsdn2.jpg

 

and the termination letter...

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/lloydsscmletter.jpg

 

How, if the arrears are £0, can I have not remedied the notice?? I know full well I paid exactly £0 by the date shown - as they asked - so they can't clam I didn't follow their instructions.

 

Add to that the fact that the termination letter was dated a full 7 days before the 'remedy' date, and I think they are in a bit of trouble here??

 

Please someone say yes:)

Edited September 24, 2009 by lexis200
post said dates on default were incorrect when they weren't

[Undercover-Elsa]

yes:)

 

and a gentle bump for more comments...

 

Elsa x

[lexis200]

Thanks Elsa:)

 

...and another little bump

[lexis200]

...and again...can anyone help with how to proceed, as this is such a shoddy DN?

[citizenB]

Lexis, they have terminated before the remedy date.

 

Date of DN 12 October - Remedy date 9th November

Date of DN 02 November.... oops

 

You should be given 14 clear days to remedy the breach which I think they have done. However, I dont think they can Terminate before the remedy date.

 

Someone with more knowledge would have to advise you on that.

 

Yes that Arrears outstanding figure is pretty good. Why, oh why didnt you pay the £0 as soon as you could ?

[lexis200]

I did!

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi Lexis,

 

FWIW I am at the post AQ stage in my vehicle thread and have a dodgy DN.

 

I was advised by a site team member to mention the fact in the allocation questionnaire. It was only sent recently but I feel that they would be ill-advised to waste the courts time pursuing an already doomed claim. I must admit that when I pointed out the dodgy DN I did not make it absolutely clear where the fault lay.

 

GK

[lexis200]

Hi GTP:)

 

I have your thread subbed so I'm watching with interest as it unfolds.

 

When you say you pointed the faults out, but didn't make it crystal clear, do you mean before or after it got litigious?

 

The thing is, I really don't fancy court (aside from the fact I could do with this being cleared up sooner rather than later for personal reasons, it's a big debt so wouldn't be a small claims issue), so anything I can do to possibly avoid it is worth a go in my view:eek:

 

Of course I'm completely aware it may end up there anyway, and I have to say, the thought of them explaining to a Judge how I hadn't complied with the DN when I did exactly what it asked in terms of payment does amuse me:) I'd still rather not go though!

[citizenB]

I did!

 

[Dinkjames]

Lexis, have a read through this. I found it useful as HSBC terminated my agreement before issueing a DN, and I am now going after them under unlawful rescission of contract as soon as I get replies to my Subject Access Request

 

Default Notice Re-Issue

[Spamalot]

Perhaps you should say you sent them an internet bank transfer for the amount of £0 and you assumed your payment was cleared and the debt was paid.....

 

I'm not sure though whether if you mention that these documents are defective at this stage that they may try to backpeddle and send a correct set....it might be worth letting them get to the court stage and getting it struck out on the grounds of defective DN's and unlawful termination....let them hang themselves so to speak..

[Dinkjames]

I'm not sure though whether if you mention that these documents are defective at this stage that they may try to backpeddle and send a correct set

 

Fortunately, they cannot backpeddle and re-instate a terminated agreement without the consent of the debtor, and who in their right mind would agree to re-instatement.

 

Terminated is terminated. End of. If they terminated the account with an invalid DN, then they can only claim the amount on the DN, not the full outstanding balance.

 

In Lexis' case, the outstanding amount was £0 and has been paid, so effectively, the account is settled.

 

In my case, HSBC terminated the agreement before issuing an invalid DN. Since the termination I have paid them more than 3 times what was specified on the DN, so I will be seeking a refund from them for overpayment, plus I am going after them for bank charges on the credit card.

 

Please note that the above is only my opinion, and I have yet to test it in court, but I fully intend to.

[citizenB]

let them hang themselves so to speak..

 

And if you are short of a bit of rope, Lexis.. you will have to lose the mittens:rolleyes:

[citizenB]

Fortunately, they cannot backpeddle and re-instate a terminated agreement without the consent of the debtor, and who in their right mind would agree to re-instatement.

 

Terminated is terminated. End of. If they terminated the account with an invalid DN, then they can only claim the amount on the DN, not the full outstanding balance.

 

In Lexis' case, the outstanding amount was £0 and has been paid, so effectively, the account is settled.

 

In my case, HSBC terminated the agreement before issuing an invalid DN. Since the termination I have paid them more than 3 times what was specified on the DN, so I will be seeking a refund from them for overpayment, plus I am going after them for bank charges on the credit card.

 

Please note that the above is only my opinion, and I have yet to test it in court, but I fully intend to.

 

I will be watching your progress with interest, DJ:D

[lexis200]

Hey spamalot:)

 

They'd have a hard time backpeddling as [problem] (their in-house legal puppets) were the ones who sent a letter stating very clearly that it has been terminated and legal proceedings are being instigated (this was a couple of years ago so I'm not too concerned about that:))

 

As it stands at the moment, I am on a payment plan with them, and have been for a couple of years. Aside from a couple of niggles with it (caused by their incompentence I might add), it's all been ok and I've not heard a dicky bird from them aside from the usual 6 monthly 'are you still pennyless' letters.

 

I need to pick up my SAR from the local branch to see what they have in the way of agreements (I have two accounts, and don't think they defaulted me on the other, despite going down the exact same route with it)

 

If the agreements are dodgy I could stop paying, but as I said these are large amounts - five figures for both (OH had an extremely well paid job so we were fine with them, then he lost it due to having to look after me when I was ill. Feel I have to point that out as otherwise it looks like I'm a mental shopaholic...). I really don't fancy chancing court with that, especially as it would be a rather more formal affair than small claims, and that one scares the pants off me.

 

I'm just a bit chicken at the moment - the enormity of the debts for these cards has definitely got to me, and I'm finding myself thinking I'd be better to just let sleeping dogs lie and carry on paying the payment plan until I'm 260(ish). This of course is madness (at least for this account), so I need to do something, I just don't know whether to bide my time and let them do something court-y (not my fave idea), or whether it's worth pointing out the rubbish they have, that they've got no chance of wriggling out of it, and why don't we call it quits/come to an arrangement?

 

I feel I should have your I am in: info as my mantra:rolleyes:

[lexis200]

Bloo*y hell, you type out a short novel and there's a spate of posts inbetween:)

 

I'm with CitizenB Dinkjames - I've got your threads up and am about to have a look-see:)

 

And if you are short of a bit of rope, Lexis.. you will have to lose the mittens

 

But how will I find my way home?

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi,

 

I have subbed to Dinkjames thread too.

 

Lexis, In my case they terminated the account early so I can have them for rescission BUT when I pointed out the error I asked them for information on how they had calculated the charges as the arrears they requested are not in multiples of months. My logic being that the arrears figure may well be correct (how I don't know) so they may consider 'we have him here' when they have missed the low, slow googlie bowled from the off side. (Please do not ask me to explain the cricket analogy as I do not understand it either lol)

 

WRT to court it looks as though with my different CCs etc I may spend sufficient time in my local county court as to be invited to the staffs Christmas Party.

 

GK

 

CB many thanks for the rep.

[citizenB]

And if you are short of a bit of rope, Lexis.. you will have to lose the mittens:rolleyes:

 

 

But how will I find my way home?

 

SatNav

 

 

 

 

WRT to court it looks as though with my different CCs etc I may spend sufficient time in my local county court as to be invited to the staffs Christmas Party.

 

GK

 

CB many thanks for the rep.

 

Oh dear, Lexis will be most upset if she doesnt get invited to a xmas party:p

 

Well deserved, GK

[Spamalot]

Hi Lexis..

Methinks I will have to start playing with Lloyds too soon. I had CC which I was paying under arrangement. They say the account is closed and now they have removed my arrangement and expect minimum monthly payments and have started slapping on the interest again....I shall watch your thread like a hawk and start typing my SAR to Lloyds in a mo.

[lexis200]

Rasafrassin lloyds bank (I love Muttley:D)

 

Just been down for the SECOND time to pick up my SAR. The first time they didn't have it so I had to go without it. No wait, their mistake, they did have it but just couldn't spend 5 frickin' minutes looking for it.

 

Went today and the frau jobsworth wouldn't give it to me because - get this - my passport is out of date!! I'm sorry, the thing with my signature and my bloody picture on it doesn't prove I'm me unless it's in date???? FFS! I took an instant dislike to the woman anyway, and this didn't make it any better.

 

I argued the toss about this with her, but she wasn't having any of it, and when I asked who I could complain to about it she said 'whoever you like'!!! What the hell sort of customer service is that?

 

I stood in there telling her I would give my dob, address, full name, number of accounts with them, years with them, security code etc etc, but as that wasn't specifically written on the form it wasn't good enough.

 

I could have taken this if she had been in the least polite, but she was just plain rude.

 

After all this I phone up the DSAR team who tell me I can go down, give a specimen signature which they can check against their filed copy, and then they can destroy it. Now what was so hard about her telling me that?

 

I was going to argue the point, but seeing as they do actually have my signature I felt it was a bit pointless:rolleyes:

 

Just needed to rant as that really wound me up. Bloody jobsworths. One yesterday wouldn't let my registered disabled friend walk through a gap in a security fence in order to cut off a large chunk of walking that she was physically unable to do (despite there being other pedestrians there) as it was his job to 'keep people out' (we'd been to a kids festival and just needed to get back to where we'd come from). Then went on to tell her if she was disabled she shouldn't be walking there in the first place!

 

Off to be a taxi now....

[citizenB]

Hmm, well now, they had best not be messing me around like that. They are the best part of 3 weeks over due. They have cashed the Postal Order, set their Pet rotweiler, **** on to me with a claim form.

 

I will be putting in a claim form for a DJ to order them to provide the paperwork over the next couple of days.

[lexis200]

Well, went back this afternoon with no id and no letter. Told them the SAR team had said I could sign in front of them, they could match it to the sig on file (Doh!) and then destroy it.

 

When I went in jobsworth wasn't there, and I spoke to another lady. She didn't know if that was possible, so guess what - did she tell me there was nothing she could do and that I'd have to sort it out? No, she leant over and asked the bloke at the next counter (who was there earlier so could have been asked if there was anything they could do then). He said it should be fine.

 

She was taking my acc. no and sig to compare, then another chap came and took over. He said as there was no photo ID he'd need to ask some security questions, and would that be ok? I told him that was exactly what I'd tried to do in the morning.

 

Anyway, turns out he was the manager, so I had a word with him and told him I was hugely unimpressed with anyone who could answer 'who can I complain to about this' with 'whoever you want to', and that it seemed this could have been sorted out in two minutes in the morning had she felt the inclination to help in the slightest.

 

I didn't ask for anything in writing, but I did tell him I thought she should be told about my complaint - I would never have spoken to a customer like that when I ran my own company; once they'd left/put the phone down of course you can say what you like, but to their face you stay polite.

 

Oh, and the SAR really didn't help - no details of DNs or really any letters at all. A complete waste of time really:(

[lexis200]

How on earth did I work out that there wasn't enough time allowed when they gave 4 weeks on the DN???

 

Must have been having a blonde moment;)

 

Do they have to state an actual clause you've broken on a DN? Mine just say 'it says on your statements you must pay' etc. Not sure if that's another string, but in any case the termination before remedy date is a bit of a killer.

 

Oddly there is no reference to that letter in the SAR. Or the letter from [problem]...

[lexis200]

Terms from the asset gold cca I received - agreement to follow

 

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s328/lizzybug78/lloydsassetgoldterms.jpg

[citizenB]

How on earth did I work out that there wasn't enough time allowed when they gave 4 weeks on the DN???

 

 

Lexis, it is irrelevant whether they gave you a month or a week next christmas.

 

**** demanded the full balance BEFORE the remedy date of 9th November was up. Their letter was dated 2nd November 2007.

 

I thought they had to put the clause you had broken as well as an explanation of that clause. But mine just says, you have broken the payment clause ?