Overdraft in dispute, defend court claim?

[James31]

...let me just add that I wasn't holding that against you of course! (It might be read that way).

 

Moreso, what you said back in May was good advice and it seemed a probable outcome to me also. I'm just surprised that Robinson way didn't return the account back to the bank, or back off.

[BankFodder]

Because the matter is comprised of charges it will have to be stayed. Have you said in your defence that it is comprised of charges?

 

If you haven't then this should have been said. If it has then the court should stay the claim and if they haven't then you need to go to court, point out again, as you rightly have that the matter is subject of a separate action against the OC and that your present claim should be stayed until the lifting of the stays and until the settlement of your claim for charges against the OC.

I don't expect that you will have any real problems - unless the OFT test case is decided in favour of the banks - which is very unlikely

[James31]

I am due in court on Thursday 12th.

 

I did say in my defence that the alleged debt was comprised wholly of charges and the account is in dispute but to no avail so far. I'm worried that the judge will grant judgement to Robingscum way and leave me to claim back my charges from Abbey at a further date, which I cannot afford to happen.

 

Any last minute advice?

[BankFodder]

Have you done anything about putting in a claim for your charges against the bank?

[James31]

Not a court claim, my only correspondence has been with the bank over the past 2 years, requesting my statements, totting up the charges, requesting, re-requesting, etc, with one offer from them that I rejected. Also, I recently made a hardship claim (2 weeks ago). I've probably written to them 5 or 6 times over the past 2 years.

 

Must I have made a court claim in order to ask for their claim to be stayed on Thursday?

[BankFodder]

No. Not necessary to have started a claim but on the other hand it owuld have been very useful as you could show the judge that the same matter was being litigated elsehwere.

 

Are you able to do an N1 and issue it today against the bank for all of your charges?

 

I still don't understand why the matter hasn't been stayed. I would like very much to see scans of the POC and your defence but if you want to do that, you had better hurry up about it.

 

I think that you should keep in closer contact with the forum. I don't think that you have helped yourself.

 

Let's see the scans and we can advise you on your arguments for Thursday.

 

Have you got all of your bank charges information, statements, spreadsheet and any other calculations ready?

[BankFodder]

Also, I don't see whay you have made a hardship claim now. It is a waste of time. The show is almost over and by the time they made some kind of decision - probably, No - the stays will have been lifted and people will be able to recalim their money.

 

You would have been better off putting in for all of your money through the courts - and this would be your best route now

[James31]

Thanks for your help, once again. I made the hardship claim on the strength of Martin Lewis harping on about it on the TV a couple of weeks ago.

 

The POC, I think it was May that I was originally issued with that. I filled in my defence and recieved a questionnaire to fill out. The only details I ever wrote on either form surrounded the account being in dispute, how much by, the fact that I'd rejected a previous offer of settlement from Abbey and so far as I was concerned it was still in dispute with Abbey due to the alledged debt being comprised wholly of charges.

 

A few weeks after that I had a letter from the court saying that if the claimant (R Way) did not file their questionnaire by a certain date, the case would be struck out. A couple of months passed with nothing, so I assumed RWay hadn't persued it and I disposed of the original claim form.

 

Then, nothing until last month when the letter specifying a date for the hearing arrived.

 

So, all I have is my spreadsheet of charges and interest which I have sent to Abbey many, many times (always appended to my letters). I didn't keep a copy of my defence, although there were definately no surprises in there; I followed your previous advice on what to say to the letter. I have a couple of recent letters from Abbey saying they are looking into my complaint, but nothing else.

 

Will the judge not think it is a bit fishy that I have started a claim only today if I go on MoneyClaim right now?

 

To be honest about why I have been lazy about this, after I rejected the settlement offer of 2.5k from Abbey, they went quiet on me and stopped replying. For a period of time until RWay were sold the account, I was waiting to hear the result of the test case. In the back of my mind, I had come to the conclusion that my overdraft was 9k, I had 10k ish of charges (12k with interest), the two kind of balance themselves out. I thought perhaps my account would go into a "not worth pursuing bin". Been a bit silly really.

 

I am *totally* dreading going into court, I can't concentrate on anything today. Only been once before when a loan went bad. Came out of that with a judgement round my neck, followed by a charge on my house.

 

Over the past 2 years I've been trouble free, but I don't have 9k for RWay, nothing like it.

[BankFodder]

Sorry, but you were wrong to follow Martin's advice. The hardship scheme was bankrupt and was completely out of date from a few weeks back with the final OFT test case judgment looming on the horizon.

 

You say that you have been lazy - well I don't know, you have probably acted like anyone else but these problems don't go away.

 

What has been difficult, as an advisor is that we have always replied very promptly to your posts and have attempted to offer first class help for free and to put you in control of the situation. However, you keep on disappearing. For instance, just on this ocassion you were last on on the 10th October and didn't come back until today when it is almost too late.

 

It makes is very empty for us to bother to help out and it makes me feel that it is we who have to make the running for you and to invest enthusiasm as well as time and effort. We have thousands of others who do get involved in theri cases and who are equally needing and deserving of help. Maybe if you paid for help, you would take it more seriously.

 

I suggest that you prepare an N1 - not moneyclaim, get your schedule of charges, go down to the court and file the claim.

Don't worry about the judge becoming suspicious. That is childish.

 

You should be preparing your claim now and you should file with with the court this afternoon.

 

On Thursday, you should point out again that the subject of RW's claim bank charges, that you have tried to bring this to the attention of the court and you do so again. You have to tell the court that charges are unlawful under the UCTTR because they are excessive and that you are in the process of reclaiming them from the bank and that RW were foolish to buy a debt which was clearly comprised of a disputed sum and that they have been informed.

 

Als o, you should get your defence. Why are you not keeping this kind of thing? Go to the court and get a copy today. They will have all of the papers there.

 

When you take control of this you will start to feel far more confident.

[Mightyacorn]

Subbing on this as I too am about to be taken to court by Robinson Way over a current account with Lloyds TSB, again over Bank Charges. Iwrote to Lloyds TSB in April, 2007 and June, 2008 after a SAR enquiry, at that time I was paying a nominal amount through a debt management agency. Lloyds TSB refused to discuss my claim for Bank charges, and after lack of finances left me unable to pay. they defaulted me, using BLS first then Sechiara, Mitchell and Clarke, both of whom returned it to Lloyds, I sent them a LBA in April, received their final response in May, complained to FOS in June, and recieved a "we await the outcome of Court Proceedings" from FOS later that month. Then nothing until last Friday, when letter received from RW 'Formal Demand for Payment' threatening court action.

 

Outstanding amount £915.38

Claim for Bank Charges £1165.00 plus interest of circa £400 total in excess of £1500.

[BankFodder]

Subbing on this as I too am about to be taken to court by Robinson Way over a current account with Lloyds TSB, again over Bank Charges. Iwrote to Lloyds TSB in April, 2007 and June, 2008 after a SAR enquiry, at that time I was paying a nominal amount through a debt management agency. Lloyds TSB refused to discuss my claim for Bank charges, and after lack of finances left me unable to pay. they defaulted me, using BLS first then Sechiara, Mitchell and Clarke, both of whom returned it to Lloyds, I sent them a LBA in April, received their final response in May, complained to FOS in June, and recieved a "we await the outcome of Court Proceedings" from FOS later that month. Then nothing until last Friday, when letter received from RW 'Formal Demand for Payment' threatening court action.

 

Outstanding amount £915.38

Claim for Bank Charges £1165.00 plus interest of circa £400 total in excess of £1500.

Start a separate thread for this please and post the link here.

 

I thnk that you should start your court claim immediately

[Mightyacorn]

My thread-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/231627-mightyacorn-lloyds-tsb-robinson.html#post2567155

[James31]

Bank Fodder,

 

I do value your time and am very appreciative of all of the great help you have offered so far. I'm just not that great at this kind of thing, but it's time for a concerted effort now. I will try.

 

Today at the hearing, I saw the Witness Statement from the claimant for the first time (I never had a copy in the post, but got the feeling the judge thought I was lying about this).

 

The outcome was that the judge has given me 21 days to submit a "proper defence". It must include which charges I am disputing, why and on what basis, along with a list of the charges and any other related documentation. What I had written previously, online, as my defence, wasn't good enough, he said.

 

He thought about whether or not this was a "bank charge" case. Abbey had informed RW that the account was no longer in dispute, by e-mail, recently, following my defence. How they can say that is beyond me seeing as I have been writing to them over the course of 3 years. He could see that as far as I was concerned, the account was in dispute, but didn't seem sure as to whether Abbey was at fault or if RW should be treated as a bank and my re-claim should be directed at them. He even mentioned Abbey coming to court to sit alongside RW and myself.

 

The witness statement says: "I have seen the defence filed by the defendant and cannot accept that it stands as a defence to the claim as it fails to disclose any cause of action or reasonable defence. All the defendant seeks to say is that he has a claim against the original creditor for repayment of bank charges, which has to be seen as an open admission of liability.

 

He does not seek to deny that the monies are due, in the premises the claim is admitted. The claimant contacted the original creditor Abbey who confirm that the case has been concluded."

 

"In the circumstances, I do not believe that the defence discloses any reasonable grounds for defending the claim as the defendant does not deny he is indebted to the claimant and therefore has to accept his liability. His defence is alleging that a claim is ongoing but this is not the case as this has been confirmed by Abbey that it has been concluded."

 

Now, I can't understand why Abbey would have said this. Granted, I never issued an N1 but I have certainly never accepted any liability. Remember, I even rejected their 2.5k gesture of good will.

 

The judge said that following submission of my "proper" defence, there will be a new hearing and things will be taken from there.

 

Today, the solicitor acting on behalf of RW had a print out of some of my bank statements, but only going back to 2007. Whilst I was there I thought it was a list of charges, but it wasn't, it was showing all transactions.

 

I couldn't get an N1 together in time the other day because I was working but I will do so now. I might need a bit of help with what to write on it though, if that's possible, in light of the judges comments.

[BankFodder]

OK. We'll try and look at this tomorrow.

 

I think that we may have to start from scratch.

 

You still haven't shown us the POC or the defence.

 

I think that you will need to start a claim against Abbey as well but I think that we will have to understand the entire story.

[James31]

Ok, thank you very much.

 

When I came out of the room with the judge today, the lights were off and everyone had gone home! I will get in touch tomorrow for a copy of my defence and POC. From memory, neither were full of any new detail that's not been posted here.

 

I'll also give a brief up to date summary of the sums involved.

[BankFodder]

I think that you should go to the court to get these documents. They are essential even if you do think that they are just like the others.

You will need to formulate a proper reply to the claim.

I will not be able to help you until you obtain these documents.

Be certain that if you don't comply with the judge's order, that judgment will be given against you and then your troubles will really begin.

Also, it must be done in good time - meaning now and not in 20 days time.

 

You will aso need to begin a claim against Abbey.

Please will you start a new thread on the Abbey forum and outline your position there.

I envisage that this claim will be issued by next Friday at the latest which is the day after the Supreme Court judgment.

 

When you have started your Abbey thread, post the link to it here so that I will know where it is.

Please also email me - not pm - on admin(at)consumeractiongroup.co.uk so that I can can contact you directly. You should let me have a phone number.

 

I'd like to make it clear that if you want to deal with this, you will have to take it seriously and not keep on dropping out. I don't want to feel as if it is me who has to make the runnning here. You were in a great posiiton a year or so ago and you have let it get out of control. It means more work for all of us - and I don't get paid or take any benefit.

[BankFodder]

When you go to the court, you will need copies of everything - witness statements etc. get everything you can

[James31]

BankFodder,

 

I have my original thread here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/48109-james31-abbey.html

 

Ok to use that one and update it or shall I create a new one?

 

I've been to the court this lunch time and collected a copy of the POC, my defence and the full witness statement. I am about to e-mail these to you.

[BankFodder]

Great.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing it and getting going

[BankFodder]

That Abbey thread is too long.

 

Would you mind starting another and laying it all out for us. It will be much easier to progress from there.

[James31]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/232256-james31-abbey-v2.html#post2574234