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    • If anybody has any advice here, it would be greatly appreciated, I already suffer with pre-existing disabilities & have struggled with this so far. 
    • so return of goods order etc etc read upload  scan pages to jpg, redact in mspaint. the convert to and merge to one mass PDF  read upload and use the online listed sites for all 3 stages. do you want to keep the car? i will guess this was a manual paper claimform direct from the co.court or was it org sent from salford bulk processing and has just got reaq ssigned?      
    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue –  29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached  2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00. The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month. 3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement, Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us. Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement 9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate 4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:- a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement  number xxxxxx. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     The total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by First class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges 5.  At the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage. Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024  What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg  
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
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Travel insurance refusing to pay out - advice needed please


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Two weeks before my 80 yr old mother-in-law went on holiday with a cruise line she fell and injured her leg. It wasn't a bad injury but there was bruising and bleeding. She attended her gp and the injury was dressed every few days. Two days before the holiday she asked her doctor if it was ok to go on holiday. She was told that the leg was fine and to go ahead and enjoy her holiday.

 

Unfortunately during the holiday she bumped the area again and the bleeding started up again. She sought medical help with the ship's doctor who said that it was infected and gave her antibiotics. After two days he arranged for her transfer to a privaye hospital at the next port of call in Cyprus. This of course despite the fact that her E111 card would have covered her treatment.

 

She was there for 12 days during which time she had antibiotics and intravenous drips and the wound attended to. After around a week it seemed that she was about ready to come home and it was just a matter of waiting for the insurance company to make the arrangements.

 

However two days ago the insurance company refused the claim and my mother-in-law was asked to make arrangements to pay a £12,000 bill to the hospital before she could come home! Naturally she was unable to pay and turned to me for help. After a very harrowing 24 hours with numerous phone calls to First Assist (the company given for emergency help), the cruise line, British Consul and a few others we managed to get her home with eventual help from the cruise line. Meanwhile the insurance company steadfastly refused to meet the claim as they said it was a pre-existing condition despite being asked several times to look at it again. First Assist tried hteir best to get the insurance company to meet the claim - even they said that it was a harsh decision.

 

We have argued with them that the travel insurance was taken out long before the injury and that the doctor told her she was able to travel but they still refuse to budge. Nothing would make them change their mind and they were unmoved when told they were leaving an 80yr old on her own in a Cypriot hospital with no-one to help her.

 

Naturally we want to appeal this decision. Where do we stand?

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Guest Old_andrew2018

Hi Jem16,

who are Your Mother in Laws insurers, and could up load the terms and conditions.

You should appeal against the decision, in the event of a rejection be prepared complain the FOS.

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I think that inititally this is one for the Ombudsman.

 

I don't normally recommend this route but I think that this time ths may be a safe way to go because the situation is rather obscure - to me, at any rate, and it will be interesting to see what the FOS has to say.

 

I suppose that the real question is that if she had asked the insurers before the holiday, should she go or should she ignore the doctor's clearance and cancel and claim on the insurance, what would the insurers have said? My guess, is that they would have refused to have paid out for cancellation because the doctor had cleared her to go.

However, being a normal insurer, they want it both ways and now they want to avoid a much larger bill.

 

I can see that they say that it is a pre-existing condition, but on the other hand it was cleared - and it is evident that you acted prudently, sought advice right to the last minute and very reasonably acted on the advice you ere given.

 

How much is at stake here? How much are you trying to recover?

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Guest Old_andrew2018

I agree with BankFodder I feel that you need to get a final response from the insurers, before the FOS will accept your complaint.

 

I had a problem with a claim on travel insurance, about 18 months ago, the insurers eventually paid out, just before the FOS got involved.

I made it clear that I would be escalating the complaint, and had taken time to look at published case studies.

 

Can I suggest that you look at the FOS web-page Financial Ombudsman Service use the sites search facility looking up the term Travel Insurance,and you will find these case studies, they are useful.

 

Regards

 

Andy

Edited by old_andrew2007
typo
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Hi Jem16,

who are Your Mother in Laws insurers, and could up load the terms and conditions.

 

She was insure through Co-op travel who tell me that it is Preferential Insurance company that they use.

 

My mother in law are 350 miles apart so i can't get hold of the T&C.

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I suppose that the real question is that if she had asked the insurers before the holiday, should she go or should she ignore the doctor's clearance and cancel and claim on the insurance, what would the insurers have said? My guess, is that they would have refused to have paid out for cancellation because the doctor had cleared her to go.

 

Yes I agree. She had done everything correctly as far as she thought.

 

However, being a normal insurer, they want it both ways and now they want to avoid a much larger bill.

 

Certainly looks that way.

 

How much is at stake here? How much are you trying to recover?

 

I was initially told £12,000 on Thursday night. However on Friday morning it had changed to between £8,000 and £9,000 due to the fluctuation of the Euro! At least that's what the doctor says.

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I agree with BankFodder I feel that you need to get a final response from the insurers, before the FOS will accept your complaint.

 

We certainly will do that. I have been told today that the insurers are doing a full review on the case - probably because I made such a fuss of them abandoning an 80 year old on her own and involved an MSP and a national newspaper.

 

Can I suggest that you look at the FOS web-page Financial Ombudsman Service use the sites search facility looking up the term Travel Insurance,and you will find these case studies, they are useful.

 

Thanks i will do that.

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You haven't said how much you have paid out to get her back?

You said that the orginal asking price was £12k but that you eventually managed to get her back with some help.

 

Are you trying to get the insureres to pay some costs and if so how much?

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You haven't said how much you have paid out to get her back?

 

£600 was paid to the ship's medical team. £350 was paid for a flight home as she was not able to rejoin the crusie ship and therefore missed her flight home. Both were paid by my mother in law herslef using a debit card.

 

You said that the orginal asking price was £12k but that you eventually managed to get her back with some help.

 

The hospital were insisting that my mother in law or myself pay this amount before they would release her from hospital. The cruise line eventually sent their port agent to the hospital and arranged to pay the hopsital. They have clearly stated that they intend to recover the cost from the insurer or my mother in law.

 

So at the moment my mother in law has paid £950 out of her own pocket and faces a potential bill of £12k (or whatever it ended up as)

 

Are you trying to get the insureres to pay some costs and if so how much?

 

We will be trying to get the insurers to pay the complete cost.

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Jem,

 

How long before the cruise did mum book her place? Did she buy the travel insurance at the same time as booking? Or is it it an annually renewable travel policy? Have the travel insurance company actually put the reason for the redpudiation of the claim in writing to you or mum? If so, what reason did they give and what policy term did they say that she had breached. If not, I would ask them to send you a formal letter of repudiation as a matter of urgency.

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I've looked briefly at the insurance document very kindly linked to my Helford.

If this represents the basis of the insurance taken out by you then I would say that you have a good case.

The general health requirement is that there should not be one a number of specified conditions and that if these occur even after the policy is bought you must refer back to the insurer.

This has not happened here.

The general health requirement also requires that there must not be some other significant change in your health and if there is that you must refer back. This would be the requirement which affects you. However, you took the precaution of going to the doctor and even asking the doctor if it was OK to travel. He seems to have been extremely positive about it. Because of this you very reasonably relied upon his judgment that there was not a significant change in your health.

A doctor's judgment about this has greater validity than your own. I think that the doctor's opinion, based on his treatment and familiarity with your injury and with you as a patient for two weeks is quite enough to allow you to assume very reasonably that there was not the significant change in your health which is referred to by the policy and which would then have required notification to the insurer.

 

Later on in the policy it makes it clear that there will be no cover if you travel against a doctor's advice. Clearly you have not done so.

 

Finally, the specific health requirement is that the injury in queston must not have pre-existed.

Obviously there is a question here, but according to your doctor you set off on holiday with a clean bill of health.

The injury in question was caused by a fresh impact and is arguably a new injury and not simply a continuation of an existing problem.

 

Of course it would be useful if the doctor would report that the new injury would have happened anyway - even if she had not sustained the earlier injury.

I think that you should discuss this particuar point with the doctor as soon as possible.

 

I think that you are right to involve the press. Are they following it up?

Also, you should make it clear to the insurers that if you receive any claims from anyone for the money that you will join them as co-defendants to the case and that you will do your best to get lots of publicity for it.

 

In the mean time, write formally to the insurers and tell them that you want to go to the ombudman straightaway.

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Jem,

 

How long before the cruise did mum book her place?

 

Not sure but I believe it was at least 6 weeks perhaps more.

 

Did she buy the travel insurance at the same time as booking?

 

Bought from the travel firm at the same time of booking holiday.

 

Have the travel insurance company actually put the reason for the redpudiation of the claim in writing to you or mum?

 

First Assist (emergency contact company) have told me that a letter has been sent. As my mother in law only arrived back in the UK at 1am this morning I cannot confirm this yet. Plus I live 350 miles away.

 

She has been very severely traumatised by all of this and it is very difficult to get info.

 

If so, what reason did they give and what policy term did they say that she had breached. If not, I would ask them to send you a formal letter of repudiation as a matter of urgency.

 

I have been told by First Assist that it has been rejected on the grounds of it being a pre-existing condition and that she should have informed them before travel.

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Guest Old_andrew2018

Hi

In my case we had sought advice from a general Practitioner, I think that in the case studies there a very similar problems mentioned where the Ombudsman upheld the complaint.

 

regards

 

andy

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I've looked briefly at the insurance document very kindly linked to my Helford.

 

I looked too. I need to get confirmation that this was indeed the insurers as that document does not mention First assist as the emergency contact so I am now confused.

 

 

Later on in the policy it makes it clear that there will be no cover if you travel against a doctor's advice. Clearly you have not done so.

 

Of course it would be useful if the doctor would report that the new injury would have happened anyway - even if she had not sustained the earlier injury.

I think that you should discuss this particuar point with the doctor as soon as possible.

 

I agree. We need to find out what the doctor has written on the notes especially as it was a doctor who was covering the usual doctor who was ill.

 

I think that you are right to involve the press. Are they following it up?

 

They are - the story goes in tomorrow's paper and they have been in contact with all parties. They were getting the run around from First Assist who kept saying that they were only the intermediaries and that it was the underwriters who had made the decision. I have asked repeatedly for contact details of the underwriters and they just kept saying it is us whom you phone but that the letter sent to my mother in law will contain the details of who to write to to appeal.

 

Today the newspaper phoned and told me that First Assist have now said that the matter is being put for review.

 

Also, you should make it clear to the insurers that if you receive any claims from anyone for the money that you will join them as co-defendants to the case and that you will do your best to get lots of publicity for it.

 

I have already made this clear and I have told them that I do not think they would want the story of an 80 year old widow being left to her own devices on her own in a Cypriot hospital.

 

In the mean time, write formally to the insurers and tell them that you want to go to the ombudman straightaway.

 

That will be the next step.

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Hi

In my case we had sought advice from a general Practitioner, I think that in the case studies there a very similar problems mentioned where the Ombudsman upheld the complaint.

 

regards

 

andy

 

Yes I had found one page where they did not think that a change of terms after the policy was taken out was fair or reasonable.

 

when firms vary the terms of an insurance policy - issue 36

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Interesting to note that ALL the policies are administered by UK Underwriting Limited, but the actual Insurer is AXA Insurance UK plc.

 

I have to agree with the comments made here by others that the policy terms leave something to be desired insofar as changing policy terms after a policy is incepted - Unbelievable! But then again, what do I know, only 28 years in the insurance industry, 24 years working for a Company that I couldn't possibly mention (Doh!) (And a Cruise fanatic to boot!)

 

Get that repudiation letter, formal appeal to the insurance company and get their final response letter and then a complaint to the FOS and/or a Letter Before Action and a County Court Claim? (and don't forget lots of adverse publicity)

 

H

 

H

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Interesting to note that ALL the policies are administered by UK Underwriting Limited, but the actual Insurer is AXA Insurance UK plc.

 

Not following you here. All what policies?

 

I have to agree with the comments made here by others that the policy terms leave something to be desired insofar as changing policy terms after a policy is incepted - Unbelievable! But then again, what do I know, only 28 years in the insurance industry, 24 years working for a Company that I couldn't possibly mention (Doh!) (And a Cruise fanatic to boot!)

 

I have to say this is my main issue. Why would the injury be classed as pre-existing when it wasn't there when the policy was taken out?

 

Get that repudiation letter, formal appeal to the insurance company and get their final response letter and then a complaint to the FOS and/or a Letter Before Action and a County Court Claim? (and don't forget lots of adverse publicity)

 

Will all the correspondance need to come from my mother in law? I doubt she is able to do it.

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Guest Old_andrew2018

IMHO you will be able to act for your MIL, all you need is her written consent, it will also stop her being harassed by the insurers.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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I posted the link above to the Preferential Insurance website, if you click on any of the policy document links, you will see that the actual insurance policies are administered by UK Underwriting Limited, but the actual Insurer is AXA Insurance UK plc.

 

Prefential Insurance appears to be an Underwriting Agency who are 'fronting' another insurance company's policies. Sounds strange, but surprisingly common.

 

H

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IMHO you will be able to act for your MIL, all you need is her written consent, it will also stop her being harassed by the insurers.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Thanks. It may be better to handle it this way as she is getting confused with all of this.

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I posted the link above to the Preferential Insurance website, if you click on any of the policy document links, you will see that the actual insurance policies are administered by UK Underwriting Limited, but the actual Insurer is AXA Insurance UK plc.

 

Prefential Insurance appears to be an Underwriting Agency who are 'fronting' another insurance company's policies. Sounds strange, but surprisingly common.

 

H

 

OK I see now.

 

I'm still trying to get to the bottom of who the actual insurer is. Preferential don't mention First Assist as their emergency contact.

 

When I was dealing with First Assist they kep telling me that they were only the intermediaries who would help in a medical emergency and that they liaise with the underwriters. However when I asked who the underwriters were they said First Assist Insurance. I asked for a telephone number to contact them and they said it was the number I was phoning.

 

I have asked my mil to get the policy which she says she doesn't have - she is staying with a friend to recover from her ordeal. I have asked the friend to go to her house with her today, find the policy, photocopy it and send me it.

 

I have checked First Assist Insurance's website but can't seem to get the policy details.

 

Unfortunately my mil seems very confused but I suppose it's no wonder after what she has been through.

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This isn't going to be an easy one to answer.

 

Your MIL had an accident before the holiday and then checked with the doctor that it was safe to travel, however whilst on holiday she has an accident that causes a pre-existing condition to flare up, OR the pre-existing condition causes further complications to the second accident.

 

I would suggest that you speak with your Dr (or other medical expert) and ascertain what contribution the pre-existing condition played in the treatment required, if they say none at all then you have a valid claim, if however they say it exasperated the treatment by xx% then the insurers would have a valid argument that they shouldn't pay that xx%.

 

I appreciate it's not going to be easy getting a Dr to guesstimate how much if any the pre-existing condition contributed to the treatment received but it would be a good starting point.

 

Mossy

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This isn't going to be an easy one to answer.

 

Your MIL had an accident before the holiday and then checked with the doctor that it was safe to travel, however whilst on holiday she has an accident that causes a pre-existing condition to flare up, OR the pre-existing condition causes further complications to the second accident.

 

No not quite. There was no pre-existing condition. It was the leg injury that happened two weeks before the holiday which flared up again after the doctor told her it was healing and to go on holiday. They called this a pre-existing condition.

 

 

Anyway as of 10 minutes ago we now have a result. Customer Relations of First Assist just phoned me to confirm that they will be meeting the claim in full! :D

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Guest Old_andrew2018

Well Jem thats great news I am really pleased, its a pity your Mother in Law had all this stress.

I do wonder how many would have given up, congratulations

 

Andy

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