Unenforceability Cases on hold until further notice

[WelshMam2009]

Theres no recipient apparent on the letter... a bit odd...who was he writing to?

 

Note it's not dated...has to involve MBNA...

 

This letter is being sent to all parties in all CCA cases which have so far been commenced in Cheshire

Edited May 7, 2009 by citizenB
title amended on merged post

[WelshMam2009]

Quote:

 

Agreed, should be within the sig doc, however, creditors continue to cite sec 189."

 

 

 

Sorry, just catching up on these posts, but can someone explain what argument MBNA are using in respect of s189?

 

As far as I can tell this is just a list of definitions??

Also, in respect of prescribed terms and the case that B_R_W quoted, Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299"[11]

 

can anyone tell me if prescribed terms are allowed to refer to clauses that are not contained within the four corners??

 

Many thanks

[WelshMam2009]

What it should mean is that, if you get taken to court by a finance company or DCA and challenge the enforceabiilty of the agreement, the case should be stayed until the outcome of the 'test case'. We should certainly be asking for that in Defences, AQs, etc.

 

 

But only for cases due to heard in Chester???

[WelshMam2009]

"The ruling means that over-indebted borrowers will have to carrying on repaying loans until a judgement is made."

 

It's only horsey Daniella and her company Ultimate Law who have made that statement, as far as I can tell.

[WelshMam2009]

Oops I did have a bit of a go at that sanctimonious pratt Robert from London... sure others must have too LOL

 

Yeah, I wrote something about it taking the banks since 1974 to become "clued up" about the Consumer Credit Act!!

[WelshMam2009]

If a lender files a claim for a debt that falls under the CCA, it should mean that a carefully worded defence will result in the claim being immediately stayed.

 

I didn't think the stay was binding on other courts, outside of Chester.

[WelshMam2009]

The letter from Derek R Halbert from Cheshire County Court says that 'the proposal is to select the test cases and then stay all others until the test cases have established the requisite principals'

It then says that representations are invited from all parties in all CCA cases which have commenced in Cheshire but nowhere does it specify that only cases in Cheshire will be stayed.

Elsewhere in the letter it mentions that a number of claims being submitted nationally and an estimate of 100,000 claims being mentioned which sounds a lot for Cheshire alone.

My interpretation is that whilst the test cases will come from those in Cheshire any stay will apply to all cases nationally

 

Suits me fine if it is applied nationally Tricky, just wasn't 100% sure!!

 

Perhaps if anyone outside of this location has their case stayed then they could post on here so that we would have some sort of confirmation.

[WelshMam2009]

The majority of people on here will be disputing their agreements direct and challenging the creditors to take them to court if they want to pursue the debt rather than the other way around. That's my opinion anyway!

 

I was also thinking along the same lines and hoping that perhaps this would delay any potential cases brought against me as I would be challenging on the grounds of unenforceability.

[WelshMam2009]

We're panicking folks - there has been a press release issued by this woman lawyer and the media have picked it up...

 

It may be the case that any test cases will result in appeals but then there is a lot at stake. It doesn't mean that the ultimate result will be a bad one

 

Agreed...I'm hoping that it might be a good result for all of us!!

 

Quotes from the BBC article...

 

Judges in England and Wales are considering putting on hold up to 100,000 claims for the cancellation of credit card and other consumer debts.

A spokesman for the Judicial Communications Office explained that the aim was to find a way of dealing with a very large number of claims.

"It is about the management of these cases in the most efficient manner," he said.

 

"It is apparent that there are a number of claims to be commenced nationally in which the main claim will be for a declaration of the invalidity of a credit agreement for non-compliance with the Consumer Credit Act (CCA)," Judge Halbert said.

 

"Estimates vary but up to 100,000 claims may be involved.

 

""The consensus is that the appropriate course is to refer a few carefully selected cases to the Commercial Court in London on a test basis... and then stay all others until the test cases have established the requisite principles," he added.

 

No deadline has been set for any decision on a test case, which will be decided by Lord Justice Moore-Bick, the deputy head of civil justice.

[WelshMam2009]

Lets say I have an interest in the financial services industry. I have had my eye on the financial claims management industry since it started about 12 months ago. The quote above is from a company I deal with. I thought their take on it may be helpful to the discussion. I have removed names to protect the innocent (?!) as it were.

 

Out of sheer curiosity, are you able to post up the Walker judgement referred to??

[WelshMam2009]

Yes, welshman that would be perhaps make matters clearer.

 

AC...I'm really starting to develop a complex with all this gender re-assignment taking place!!

[WelshMam2009]

LOL!

Sorry WelshMam:)

 

Looks like Bobby has gone;

for now?

 

No probs AC...

 

Yeah Bobby, typical man, never there when you need him!! lol

 

Seriously though, I would love to read that judgement as it may give us some clues as to which aspects might need clarification.

 

Perhaps PT or one of the others may have access to a copy...

[WelshMam2009]

Case law just doesn't get squashed just like that. I think the directions could well be a positive step for people who are attempting to wipe their debts; this should stop rogue judges finding in favour of the lenders due to a lack of understanding over the CCA.

 

But moreso should stop lenders and Dcas trying to manipulate the Consumer Credit Act when it suits them in evading their responsibilities to comply.

 

 

**EDITED** in respect of Ms Lipszyc, I have to question her motives in slanting her article/press release in the way she did. All of this hype as emanated predominantly from one source and has necessitated subsequent clarification from others.

 

In the interest of fairness, Ms Lipszyc is quoted below, although I'm confident you will have already read it...make your own mind up!!

 

Daniella Lipszyc, a solicitor at Ultimate Law, a law firm, said: "The ruling by His Honour Judge Halbert is a landmark decision that will have massive implications on cases involving the enforceability of credit agreements.

“After a number of early wins, many claims management companies have jumped on the band wagon, promising desperate consumers that they can write off credit card balances.

"In reality, cases have simply ground to a halt as banks and lenders up their game and become more clued up on the Consumer Credit Act and subsidiary legislation. It’s now extremely inappropriate and misleading for any company to promise to write off balances in light of this judicial move.”

Edited May 10, 2009 by car2403
Contravenes site rules, referring to moderation previous

[WelshMam2009]

Please see my above post why I feel that it should not have been posted.

If I kept it to myself, the guys address would still be up here for all to see , and maybe even could have led to CAG being sued, I don't know. But at the moment, I am not having a go, just replying to posters.

 

In fairness, the Judge himself stated that the judgement was only confidential until formally handed down on 8 April 2009 and we are well past that date.

 

The judgement can be obtained from the court and, as an appeal, will no doubt be available online in the near future. As far as I can tell, it is in the public domain and I see no lawful reason for anyone to sue.

[WelshMam2009]

Those who have been cagbotted,were not singled out specifically,some inappropriate links were removed and possibly quotes in posts containing those links.

I was actually Cagbotted myself twice during the process !!

 

Me too..and my bum is still aching!! lol

 

I only wish that being Cagbotted was the only thing I had to worry about!!

 

Actually, I thought Chris did a good job of de-tangling the threads even though, being a woman, I am naturally beyond reproach and being a man (as I presume Chris is) then he was obviously wrong!!

 

Now, lets get back to business...being off line has really affected me!!

[WelshMam2009]

Hi AllNot sure if this is the right place to ask advice, help or which poison to take.Briefly,Got myself in a nightmare by investing in a property venture which has resulted in blowing a lot of money.I have been pushed into an IVA because of what I do for a living Bankruptcy would be a big problem.The terms of the IVA are a noightmare and due to the creditor demand quite frankly have agreed to something I am finding impossible to fund.Did'nt know about unenforceable agreements til recently. 85% of the debt I have is in CCA's prior to 2007. Cards and loans.Can I check their enforceability whilst in the Iva. Picked up the mane of Tostrun from another thread, they won't assist whilts I'm iN the IVA. Any suggestions would be welcomed, i'm talking 21 agreements.Thanks for your helpHenderson

 

Best to start your own thread Henderson and that way you can keep all the replies together!!

[WelshMam2009]

also i have heard this lady causing all the stirring in the press is being sued for libel by a number of claims companies.

 

excellent news.

 

is it true she was fired by a claims company?

 

hmmm, interesting for her to then go and stir up crap.

 

I think you need to be careful what you say about her...she is a solicitor after all and you shouldn't specifically speculate as to her character or ability.

[WelshMam2009]

i also asked a question, and did not specualte as to her charachter and ability.

 

It is easy to deduce who you were referring to and your question couldn't have been answered if this was not the case!

 

It might be better just to link to the sources that you've "heard from" so that others can read for themselves.

[WelshMam2009]

Thanks for that where should I start another thread?

 

Legal issues...same as this thread...

[WelshMam2009]

Hi Guys - we urgently need a copy of Halberts recent judgment - it was posted on this thread but it got removed can anybody send either me a link or copy or send one to broken arrow

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/144119-hfo-court-claim.html

 

There's an appeal on Tuesday next week that he needs it for.

 

Cheers

 

I've got a copy if he pm's me his email address

[WelshMam2009]

 

 

That's interesting. They don't have a CCA to enforce. That is my case.

 

Have they supplied you with a document containing prescribed terms and a signature instead??

[WelshMam2009]

Only repeating what we already know, but there now in black and white all the same.

 

Media Releases: Consumer Credit Act cases at Chester County Court

 

I like the bit at the bottom best, Fermi...

 

Notes to Editors

This document is intended to help explain the position regarding these cases due to previous misreporting.

[WelshMam2009]

The only relevant case I can see listed for tomorrow in the Commercial Court is Mcguffick v The Royal Bank of Scotland Plc which is a continuation from today.

 

Of course the test case may have been heard in it's entirety today, in which case the above is a red herring!!

 

However, the case I named is with Mr Justice Flaux and yet I thought the test cases were going to be heard by Lord Justice Moore-Bick??

 

Please accept my apologies if this is all totally wrong... but I'm no lawyer...just a quick fingered Googler!!

[WelshMam2009]

I guess, that we will all have to be patient now until 30th September,

as per PT's advice.

 

I still can't see any relevant cases listed for the Commercial Court on 30th September...link here if anyone wants to check;

 

Court Hearings - Commercial and Admiralty Court

[WelshMam2009]

Mr Justice Andrew Smith!

 

The 'Bank Charges' Judge

 

Sounds promising!!

 

Saw nothing listed for him today. This is for tomorrow and does not appear consumer credit related but is to do with bribery and contract rescission from what I can gather from the Times archives...

 

FIRST AVENUE HOUSE

COURT 80

Before MR JUSTICE ANDREW SMITH

Thursday 01 October 2009

At 10:30

For Trial

Part Heard

2005-534 Fiona Trust & Holding Corporation & 20 Ors v Yuri Privalov & 17 Ors

Part Heard

Same v Same