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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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orange shop, faulty 4 day old phone question


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hi people,

 

wonder if you can help, 4 days ago i purchased a pay as you go phone from a orange shop in our high street, using my debit card not credit. the phone keeps randomly switching itself off without me pressing anything. I have researched the internet and its seems a common problem with this phone, (firmware? problem) and by the sounds their is no immediate fix. this has now put me off wanting another, but i dont really want a full refund, just another phone of same value or a part refund and replacement phone.

 

i cant get hold of the shop till tuesday but i have noticed on the reciept it says " we do not offer a money back guarnatee policy" this does not effect your legal rights.

 

its a proper orange shop, and even though they dont know about my probelm till i get their on tuesday could they get out of giving a refund or part refund/exchange.

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Hi, ady.

 

Think you might get more response in the Telecoms Forum, I'll move this thread there.

 

EDIT: Thread moved, if you don't get help, I'll move you again :)

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

Any advice I give is honest and in good faith.:)

If in doubt, you should seek the opinion of a Qualified Professional.

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Help keep it up and active, helping people like you.

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Hiya

im my past i worked for a phone shop

if the phone has known faults ie big software issues

 

then any good company especially as big as orange will know the faults and should at least give you credit note

 

dont allow them to send the unit away unless they can guarantee that you will get your phone back and not a refurbished one.

 

if they have the facilites to flash a software update that should sort it

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They wont give you a refund. What they can do (and Orange PLC Compliance dictates) they should do a 28Day Exchange. Which is giving you a brand new phone (same model of course).

 

If they don't have any they can send you to another Orange store who has them, or they can offer to send it to their repair centre Intek.

 

Orange don't do credit notes or anything like that.

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Call me crazy but why would you want to send a phone thats under a week old to a repair centre

 

i worked for a one2one service centre .

my fear is if they go down that route then the chances of them getting their orginal phone back are slim as they usually get swapped for a refurbished unit which has newer software on it

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I get what you mean Pinky, I'm just saying that's one of the options.

 

Orange are notorious for returning items and their policies surrounding them. They don't like doing 28Day Exchanges as it lowers their stock. Orange Retail is mainly just sell sell sell. As if they do do an exchange the Sales person looses their commision and affects the managers performance.

 

Intek rarely do swaps. As the guys there are paid on how many handsets they repair rather than replace (they dont get paid bonuses on replacements).

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hi, whether orange take refunds or not, unfortunatley the goverment laws on consumer rights state the following which in a court would override oranges t&c's. We as consumers have rights!! i am contacting trading standards tuesday will post the outcome, have also emailed a letter of complaint to:-

 

executiveoffice@orange

 

pasted this from businesslink.gov.uk, highlighted the important bits.

 

The Sale of Goods Act

 

The rights of customers: goods

 

If you sell your customers goods that don't conform to contract - that aren't as described, are unfit for their purpose or of unsatisfactory quality - you are legally obliged to resolve the problem if they seek redress.

The Sale of Goods Act states that if customers want to reject faulty goods, they have to do so within a "reasonable time". A legal definition of "reasonable" is not given though - it varies from case to case and could be just a few weeks from the date of purchase.

If a customer rejects faulty goods within this "reasonable" period, they're entitled to ask for their money back. All customers can claim compensation at any time if they choose. If you sell to consumers - not other traders - they can ask for a repair or a replacement immediately (instead of asking for a refund) at any time until six years after purchase.

If you're dealing with a consumer, any repair or replacement you arrange must not cause them too much inconvenience. You may have to pay for other costs such as transportation. However, if a replacement is impossible and the goods cannot be repaired economically, or vice versa, then you can offer a full or partial refund.

In law you have a responsibility to your customer for up to six years from the date of purchase (in Scotland, five years from discovery of the problem). During this period, you are legally obliged to deal with any claim of breach of contract.

Edited by ady347
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It's a PAYG phone - the Sale of Goods Act applies as there is no other contract in place to disrupt its application in this case.

 

Take the phone back, boxed as you received it and tell them that it keeps switching off (make sure it does this when fully charged - as they have been known to turn off when flat!

 

You are returning the handset as 'not fit for purpose' and you require a NEW and boxed replacement. You will not accept a credit note, refurbished handset or anything other than a fresh replacement - if it helps say it is for a gift, and the lack of a working handset from new had greatly embarrassed you.

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tbh they have offered a replacement like for like but after speaking to lg customer services, reading others that have had the same problem, i have lost confident in this model of phone, so i asked for a full refund or a part refund/another phone, they refused a refund of any kind.

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i would not acept a replacement,

you will prob get a refurbished phone,

all they do is reload the orange firmware again.

 

orange are very good at taking a good model of phone, and putting there own soft ware on it.

 

any returned phone goes to the orange ware house at chipping warden in oxfordshire, it hen goes back out as a replacement phone, its a con, people thinking they are getting new phones when they are returned ones

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If the goods are faulty within a reasonable time then you are entitled to a refund. Orange classify 'a reasonable time' as 28 days. Ideally, they'd like to exchange the goods for a non-faulty phone of the same model for you and keep the 'sale'. However, if you do not wish to take an exchange then you are more than entitled to ask for a full refund. Orange can and do refund.

 

If over 28 days old then the issue gets a bit more tricky trying to prove that the phone went faulty within that initial period. However, if it is still within the 28 days and there's no doubt that it is faulty equipment then this should be a straight-forward refund if you request it. The Sale Of Goods act clearly covers this area and Orange have no such Ts&Cs which contravene this. If you have already visited the shop and not had any satisfaction i would imagine that this is more down to a knowledge-gap in this area by the member of staff rather than any Orange policy standing in the way.

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thanks for all your help, forgot to say in my above post, the shop was open today!!! i have had the phone 6 days when the fault was reported, tomorrow will be 7 days, i am going back to the shop to see the manager (who was off) the supervisor told me no refund or part refund against another phone, only a like for like swap, and that the manager will only tell me the same thing as him (cos hes been their years!, and knows all the terms and conditions) i will post the outcome, i am also talking to trading standards in the morning and repeat what they say to the manager.

when i was their today i phoned orange (150 number) who told me i was entitled to a refund, and asked to speak to the supervisor i passed him the phone and they told him to give me a refund. he said no becuase they are orange retail and the refunds policy is different to orange direct?

 

i told him that i didnt want to return it coz i didnt like it (which i do) i said it is because it is faulty and after being faulty within a few days put me off having another, i also told him that in a court of law the sale of goods act would override any of oranges own terms and conditions.

 

i went home then back to the shop and i showed him a copy of the 1982 sale of goods act that i got from the net which he read but he still wouldnt accept it.

Edited by ady347
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You have no right to insist on a different replacement or a credit, only a like for like swap of which it must be new. What the shop offers have to be in ADDITION to your Statuatory Rights, not in place of them. Return to the shop with an INDEPENDENT witness (not a family member) to see the manager, and introduce them as such.

 

Should they refuse to accept the phone back you need this witnessed, and your next step is to raise a Small laims Action for the full cost of the handset, plus the court fees in raising the action. It may be useful to pre-prepare a letter to give to the manager, stating that if you do not recieve a refund within 14 days, you will institute a SC action for the full cost, as they have refused to act fairly under the provisions of SoGA.

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"You have no right to insist on a different replacement or a credit, only a like for like swap of which it must be new".

 

my statutory rights which i got from the gov website states i am entitled to my money back. their not refusing to take the phone back, they are offering a swap for another of the exact same. listed below is the actual rights doesnt this mean that i can have a refund.

 

The Sale of Goods Act states that if customers want to reject faulty goods, they have to do so within a "reasonable time". A legal definition of "reasonable" is not given though - it varies from case to case and could be just a few weeks from the date of purchase.

If a customer rejects faulty goods within this "reasonable" period, they're entitled to ask for their money back

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'Reasonable' is never defined. However, because it is a mobile it is slightly different than if you had purchased a radio (as an example).

 

You have alluded to the fact that the problem is firmware-based and known, in which case there would not be an issue - NFFP attaches. However, it would appear the shop does not accept this, and by so doing, unless you can prove to their satisfaction that the item is indeed faulty, you are stuck.

 

In this situation, you could be seen simply as a customer attempting to change their mind because they do not like their purchase, and get something else. Because of this they will (usually) arrange for an exchange on a lick for like basis, anything else will be a slog - and if you cannot prove in the store that the handset displays the fault you say it does, then they are entitled to dig their corporate heels in and reject your claim for a refund.

 

I'm assuming the switch off scenario is random? (In that you cannot execute a set sequence of events that will cause the handset to fail?) A shop is hardly going to stare at the phone for days until it eventually crashes, as sods law dictates that probably will not happen.

 

The other issue is the SIM card, which is an additional (and different) ball game. It also has an intrinsic value over and above that of the handset. If you purchased (say) a £10 top up as part of the deal, then any usage or costs incurrent by using the handset for calls etc will not be refunded as the amounts billed were 'consumed' by the user.

 

It's not the slam dunk the Gov site leads you to believe - especially when, if you have any difficulty in proving your claim, the retailer can easily reject your assertion.

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yeah the fault happends 3 or 4 times a day, but has done for 2 days in a row now, not bothered about the sim tbh, just looking for a refund on the phone.

thanks for your help will post the outcome tomorrow.

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ok, went into shop today, apparantly in between my last visit and today they emailed the returns department, who told them they have to give me a refund, as soon as i walked in today i didnt have to say anything they just said "we can issue you a refund" which they did rather reluctantly and rudely.

 

so im happy!:D

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Great news! Now, why couldn't they have done this in te first place - saved your blood pressure, and given you such a positive vibe you wouldn;t buy a phone from anyone else?

 

[Heads off to a darkened room]

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