I got PCN in Leisure centre car park. No Penalty notice signs

[Acco123498]

Hi I just drafted my appeal letter, could you have a quick look to say if this is suitable. i just kept it short and for the initial appeal

its going special delivery tonight.

and advice on any ammendments would be greatly apreciated

thanks

Jon

 

do i enclose the copy of PCN with it or keep photocopy for myself and send them the original back to council. or will that only wind them up ?

appealPCN.pdf

[Al27]

They'll have copies of everything and the PCN number will be enough for them.

 

Letter looks good to me.

[Acco123498]

right i think im going to print it out and send it on its merry way

[Acco123498]

Sent. I'll let you know what reply I get. thanks have a good weekend

Jon

[Acco123498]

Hi group. thanks for your advice in writing a letter about the PCN i received. Its been a week or so since my letter I sent the council.

 

This morning I had their formal reply in letter. I am just scanning it and will up load it shortly.

 

BRB

[Al27]

Sounds like a rejection then? No surprise with most of these councils. We'll help you to appeal further.

[Acco123498]

Hi , Just finished putting together the PDF of the replyies from torbay council. and the evidence i have etc in one document here.

have a look.

 

Torbay council say they have investigated and that clear sign exists stating that a valid permit must be displayed. Yet, there is none on site in that car park.

 

they also did not reply with a copy of the Off street parking places order.

 

have a look

thanks

Jon

TorbayCouncil_PCN_contest_Reply_fullstory.pdf

[Acco123498]

I just posted this to my old thread. but incase that thread is old & missed ... heres my scans in one PDF concerning the contravention.

 

TB council are claiming that signs do exist in the car park. but I think they just have not investigated.

 

also they ignored my request for a copy of the Off street parking places order.

 

ive blotted out all my personal details in the scan as you can see , also added comments in colour.

 

have a look if you like. hope you could advise the next course of action.

thanks

TorbayCouncil_PCN_contest_Reply_fullstory.pdf

[Al27]

Hi Jon

 

Complete idiots.

 

Wait for the Notice to Owner, appeal again and then to the Adjudicator.

 

Some councils are disgraceful with these appeals.

[freakyleaky]

2 Threads Merged

[Acco123498]

cheers

[Acco123498]

do the council have to provide me with the off street parking places order as per my request. or are they entitled to ignore it ?

[Al27]

They can ignore it, but they'll have to produce it to the Adjudicator if it gets that far. If they don't have one, they'll back down and cancel the PCN.

 

They could well still be looking for it and send it to you in a few weeks though.

[Acco123498]

Hi, Just this morning i received the Notice to Owner NTO . I'll Scan it later and attach the pdf. im not sure what I need to do next

 

still not off road parking order received from the council either.

 

thanks

Jon

[Acco123498]

Hi here is the scan pdf of the Notice to owner i just received this morning. should i use the representations page to state why the contravention did not occur

NTO-030609.pdf

[Acco123498]

Any advice on how to correctly write my representation to the NtO. can i just state that the sign in the members car park does not state that a valid permit must be displayed. also enclose a print out of the picture of the sinage in the car park. Would something like that suffice?

[Al27]

Sorry, missed your post from Friday.

 

NtO looks ok to me unfortunately. Tick 'The contravention did not occur' and submit your appeal again. Include photos etc. again.

 

I assume they still haven't sent you the Off Street Parking Places Order? If not, just mention 'a request was made on xx date for the council to send the Off Street Parking Places Order, but to date nothing has been received.'

[Acco123498]

ok thanks, ill get that sent in. I just hope they cant enforce the fine by some law that says the sign does not have to say you need a permit displayed to park there.

[Al27]

The council HAS to make any restrictions clear.

 

Edit - in fact, stick that in somewhere: "The onus is on the council to make any restrictions clear."

[Acco123498]

I wrote up my Representation document as clear as I could, see in the PDF attached.

 

also pointed out that the Council also wrote to me advicing me that they were satisfied that the sinage in the car park was sufficient.

 

since its stating in a printed letter to me that "... signs ... are CLEAR TO ADVISE drivers that a permit must be displayed." So here they are stating there are signs to advise permits must be displayed! They say they are satisfied that sufficient sinage is in place. Dispite all my photos showing the signs CLEARLY DO NOT state that its permit holders only, or permits must be displayed.

 

I just dont understand why its been rejected. since my representation makes it as clear as i could that the signs dont say that a permit must be displayed. .. and then I have that letter from the council in black and white stating the signs are clear to advise permits must be displayed. (previously uploaded pdf)!!! I even put that extract in my representation. and they still thew it out.

i have 28days from 08/07/2009 to make appeal. but i just dont know what i should do now.

 

Here is the full Representation doc and their Rejection doc uploaded.

 

can you have a look and whats ur thoughts.

thanks

Jon

Representation-document-rejection.pdf

[Acco123498]

I wish i just paid the reduced fee of £25 now. its just been a stress since i got the ticket i can do without this making my depression worse since i got the ticket.. for the sake of a stupid ticket. its just another pressure i cant cope with right now. I wish i could!! I know i parked in the wrong car park, but the signs dont say there is a penalty fine of £70, or that you must display a permit. If they had a sign there saying that, id never of parked there. I was just late at the time for karate club, and seeing that there were no signs for penalties or permits etc so i parked there. Didnt look like that was part of the car park that was patrolled by CCP as there were not permit signs etc. Surly the council must put up a sign stating the penalty charge for off road parking offences.

[Al27]

Calm down and don't worry

 

You certainly went to town on your Representations - good job!

 

The council has rejected your letter because they are hoping you will pay up and go away. Some councils are genuine and others are revolting organisations that are only interested in cashing in.

 

Next stage is adjudication at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal: http://www.trafficpenaltytribunal.gov.uk/site/index.php

 

You can appeal in person or by post. You should have received a form with your rejection.

 

It's simply a matter of submitting your Representations as they are to the TPT.

 

If you have a hearing, it's an informal affair - just you and a guy sat opposite a table. The council may send someone or they may not.

 

Alternatively just do it by post.

 

Bear in mind statistically you have a higher chance of success doing it in person, probably because you can put you points across and talk to the adjudicator.

 

Think it over! You have nothing to lose.

[lamma]

the reasons councils refuse when its obvious that they are in wrong is to get exactly your reaction. they want to wear people down to get them to pay. Good appeal. TSRGD does not apply but signage must be clear. In this case it it isn't. Go to adjudications and expect the council to drop out at the last minute. You should win easily if they don't.

[Guest lipupfatty]

I Think You Have A Good Case

[Acco123498]

just a quick update, i have now received a copy of the off street parking order for the borough of torbay. attached..

Borough_Torbay_OSPO.pdf