CCA agreement time up with Lloyds; what next?

[cerberusalert]

Send this SAR http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca

[lexis200]

That's the one I was looking for! Now why couldn't I find it:confused:

 

Bookmarking that page now though, thanks:)

[cerberusalert]

Have you bookmarked this one too? The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

[rubinho]

It's still not over!

 

I've not been the best at keeping on top of things and Lloyds have not been very speedy at getting back to me. Anyway, I sent them a SAR (the one linked above) to them and they responded to me last week (within the statutory 40 days).

 

The file of stuff they sent includes:

 

• A cover letter.
  
• A script of info on phonecalls and actions on the account "Memoline translation". Presumably this is a printout from their account records software. It includes notes from 2005 when the card was an Accucard and 2006 onwards when it was Lloyds.
  
• Copies of the letters I have sent them requesting the CCA and the SAR etc.
  
• A full set of printed statements (Accucard and Lloyds) from when the account was opened until September 2009.
  

The covering letter states that:

 

"...I am still awaiting further information from our Card Services Department. This will be sent out in due course, if anything is received. Please accept my apologies for the delay."

 

The packet does not include signed CCAs or application. Moreover, in the notes from the Memoline Translation an action in response to my section 78 request says:

 

"Super response sent to card holder, no copy application execute agreement only." (my emphasis)

 

This note was just prior to the time they sent the photocopies of the Lloyds TSB application form and T&Cs (June 2009).

 

I hope this note means that they do not have a copy of the application and would render the credit agreement non-enforceable in a court. What's the advice for a next step to get this closed off. I've been on this since March and I just need a final push to get it sorted. Please help!

 

Thanks all!

[cerberusalert]

I hope this note means that they do not have a copy of the application and would render the credit agreement non-enforceable in a court.

it certainly looks like it, but best wait and see what else they send.

[rubinho]

it certainly looks like it, but best wait and see what else they send.

 

How long should I wait? They've had their 40 days to respond to the SAR. I don't want to wait indefinitely for something that may never show up. I'm really unhappy they've not complied fully with the Data Protection Act request and it feels like a delaying tactic to me.

[rubinho]

HELP!!

 

Whilst patiently waiting for Lloyds to fully comply with the section 78, completely respond to my SAR and putting up with the constant harassment from their collections centre (up to 3 calls a day between 7am and 10pm) they've gone and issued me with a default!

 

I desperately need to get this wrapped up as they're in the process of ruining me as I attempt to do the right thing.

 

Please will somebody help me with a next step?

[cerberusalert]

Write to them and list everything you still require from them. Make a complaint to the ICO https://www.ico.gov.uk/Global/contact_us.aspx about their failure to comply with your legal request.

 

Can you scan the DN, remove identifying details & post it up?

[rubinho]

Thanks for your reply. I don't have a scanner so I took a photo with a camera phone and redacted the personal information. Apologies for the poor quality.

 

Their letter was dated November 20th. I have been working abroad since November 19th so I have only this weekend opened this letter.

 

 

I have started drafting a letter which I will post up shortly.

[rubinho]

This is the response I intend to send Lloyds TSB:

 

I write to you in response to your letter dated November 20th. My reply has been delayed somewhat due to me working abroad between November 19th and December 12th. It is regretful that you have decided to issue a Default Notice against me. As stated in my letter of June 12th you have still not fully complied with my request of Febuary 16th under s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for the true copy of the credit agreement relating to my account. I reject your claim to have complied in your letter dated June 27th as you have not supplied Accucard documentation, only Lloyds TSB. Just because you state that it is a Final Response, does not make it so. If you were to search your records fully you will find that no signed credit agreement or application exists between Lloyds TSB and me. In addition you still have not fully complied with my Subject Access Request under the Data Protection Act of September 2nd 2009. The forty day time limit for legal compliance to a request was up quite some time ago. I have given you some grace as you claim in your incomplete response that “[you are] still awaiting further information from [your] Card Services Department”. Mrs Chris Kennelly has made no further attempt to send more information relating to my account. I will not consider this issue resolved until:

 

 

• Lloyds TSB respond with a true copy of the executed agreement with Accucard.
  
• Lloyds TSB comply fully to my SAR of September 2nd including the original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time the account was opened.
  

 

Furthermore, I wish to make it clear that I will not deal with any matter regarding this account by telephone. Your constant harassment by your collections staff, who have no useful information about the true status of my account, is unlawful. Your Default Notice is also in breach of lawful proceedings whilst my account is in dispute. A creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies:-

 

 

 

• You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
  
• You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
  
• You may not pass the account to a third party.
  
• You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
  
• You may not issue a default notice related to the account.
  

 

I have no choice but to report the lack of a complete response to my SAR within the proscribed time limit to the Information Commissioner’s Office. I will also report your actions relating to my request under section 77/78 of the CCA 1974 to the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

Thank you for your continued efforts to resolve my complaint.

[cerberusalert]

Was this posted 1st or second class?

 

It was dated the 20th which was a Friday & could not have got into the postal system before Mon 23rd, they have to allow 14 days to remedy. Service is seen as 2 days first class, 4 days second class.

[rubinho]

I'm afraid I don't know what postal service it was sent by as I filed the letter directly and didn't keep the envelope.

[cerberusalert]

Either way it's defective. If it was posted 1st class it would be one day short & if posted 2nd class which is more likely as they tend to use TNT business post, it would be 3 days short. Once they terminate the a/c it will be unlawful rescission of contract.

[rubinho]

Is it 14 days or 14 working days the time they must give to respond? Is this in a section of the CCA?

 

EDIT: Section 87 of the CCA states 7 days to respond to the breach.

 

Do you recommend I send the letter I drafted and simply wait for them to terminate the account and take me to court?

[cerberusalert]

This is the actual case ref;

 

1. Interpretation Act 1978, Section 7

 

This states:-

 

Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

 

2. Practice Direction

Service of Documents - First and Second Class Mail.

 

With effect from 16 April 1985 the Practice Direction issued on 30 July 1968 is hereby revoked and the following is substituted therefore.

1. Under S7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 service by post is deemed to have been effected, unless the contrary has been proved, at the time when the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

2. To avoid uncertainty as to the date of service it will be taken (subject to proof to the contrary) that delivery in the ordinary course of post was effected:-

(a) in the case of first class mail, on the second working day after posting;

(b) in the case of second class mail, on the fourth working day after posting.

"Working days" are Monday to Friday, excluding any bank holiday.

3. Affidavits of service shall state whether the document was dispatched by first or second class mail. If this information is omitted it will be assumed that second class mail was used.

4. This direction is subject to the special provisions of RSC Order 10, rule 1(3) relating to the service of originating process.

 

8th March 1985

J R BICKFORD SMITH Senior Master

Queen's Bench Division

[cerberusalert]

It's 14 calender days.

 

Section 87 of the CCA states 7 days to respond to the breach.

This was changed to 14 days.

[cerberusalert]

You've already sent the 'In Dispute' letter, so there's not much point in getting involved in a game of postal ping-pong with them.

[rubinho]

EDIT: didn't see your responses on p.3 before I wrote this! Sorry.

Edited December 13, 2009 by rubinho

[cerberusalert]

(2) A date specified under subsection (1) must not be less than seven days after the date of service of the default notice, and the creditor or owner shall not take action such as is mentioned in section 87(1) before the date so specified or (if no requirement is made under subsection ( 1)) before those seven days have elapsed.

This was changed to 14 days on 19th Dec 2006.

Amendment

 

Para 3: in sub-paras ©, (d) words "not less than fourteen days" in square brackets substituted by SI 2006/3094, regs 2, 3.

 

Date in force: 19 December 2006: see SI 2006/3094, reg 1.

[rubinho]

You've already sent the 'In Dispute' letter, so there's not much point in getting involved in a game of postal ping-pong with them.

 

That's what I thought which is why I've not been paying and not been writing back to them. They're continually calling me though which is tiresome (although I have blocked their number with a blacklist app for my phone) and I can't seem to make progress. Does this have to be done in their timescales?

 

I think I'll send the letter as then at least I'll have responded to them. I'll remind them that the time limit in their DN was wrong too.

[cerberusalert]

Don't mention the defective default notice before the a/c is terminated otherwise they can remedy the situation by issuing you with a compliant one.

[rubinho]

Don't mention the defective default notice before the a/c is terminated otherwise they can remedy the situation by issuing you with a compliant one.

 

Good plan!

[rubinho]

In preparation for court action as described in http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/111211-defaults-background-removal-methods.html I complained to the Information Comissioner's Office and the Financial Ombudsman Service.

 

In typical "official body" impotent style the ICO have my complaint "on record" and the FOS wrote back simply saying that they have considered my case and have come to the conclusion "Lloyds TSB is not required to compensate Mr X".

 

Lloyds TSB continue to call me and I get letters from their DCAs but strangely less regularly than I used to. Before I go through with the above small claims court action is there anything else I can try?

[Guest]

with re to loyds phone calls, you could try writing to the data controller/compliance manager (where you sent the dsar) requesting that they remove all of your tel numbers from ALL of their records including their inhouse dcas.

[rubinho]

Ford, good tip. They've only got a mobile number for me and I use some software on my Nokia called MobiGenie (it's a free app I downloaded somewhere) with a number blacklist which automatically rejects their calls without the phone ringing. I can see them still trying as the numbers appear in the recently called list every once in a while. This doesn't bother me too much and I like to know how often they try at least.