EGG and Bryan Carter

[willeewonker]

Hi Folks , new to this excellent site and require some help please ...??

 

After reading some threads i think i have good grounds for defence but need some advice as to how to proceed ?

 

I am one of the chosen not so few 160,000 that last year recieved the infamous EGG letter of termination . I think sometime around January 2008 but i don't have said letter . I was upto date with payments ( D/Debits ) and not in arrears with an outstanding balance approx £7k .

 

I cancelled the D/D about 6 months later after realising they'd increased the APR just before sending the letter and that my payment was only servicing the interest

 

In March 09 , Bryan Carter solicitors enter the equation with usual bologne of letters were there now threatening the big stick of court . By chance during the same period during a routine telephone call with another totally separate creditor , they asked about a DEFAULT notice on my credit file .

 

After checking myself EGG have issued a DEFAULT NOTICE in November 2008 . I have had absolutely no communication whatsoever with EGG ( written or verbal ) since cancelling my D/Debit early 2008 .

 

So based on what i've read on this forum i'm seeking help for the following points and how to proceed :

 

1 . The letter terminating the aggreement by EGG

 

2 . The issueing of the Default Notice

 

3 . The implications regarding Bryan Carter and asking him to go

away ( politely )

 

4 . Possibilities with the Data Protection Act and obvious breeches

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated , thanx in anticipation

 

WILLEEWONKER

[42man]

I'd send a CCA request (agreement request) to whoever owns the debt now (have Carters been assigned/own the debt ? or Fredriksson ?), do this ASAP as Carters are quick to litigate....(keep us posted if you get a claim form)

 

Send a SAR (Subject Access Request) to the original creditor....

 

The agreement request costs £1 (send postal orders and send recorded)

 

The SAR will cost £10 (again send postal orders and send recorded)

 

Templates are here - The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

[willeewonker]

Thanks for such a swift reply 42man .

 

With regard to who owns the debt , i'm not sure but in a letter from Carters they do use the phrase " our client " . So do i take it that they have been assigned ???

 

Also purerly based on my readings of this superb site , i'm unsure of whether i need to write to EGG to confirm that i believe the account to be in dispute ( to use to stave off Carter's ) , or am i too late with this type of approach ??

 

Thanx , Willeewonker

[42man]

If they are collecting on behalf of Egg, then send the CCA to Egg directly, it may be that Fredrikson Intl (who are owned by Bryan Carter) are the 'buyers' of your debt or have been assigned it.....

 

I'd get the CCA off ASAP, then they will be in dispute if they don't provide the agreement within 12+2 working days of your request...

 

Also did you see this thread ? - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what.html

[willeewonker]

Just an update , sent off both the CCA and SAR's request today , so will keep posted of any developments ? Although again judging by responses from this site , i wont hold my breath !!!

 

42man as for the thread you posted , again thanx but my aggreement was an online from mid 2005 .

[willeewonker]

Ding Ding , round 2 !!

 

Ok as expected CCA request deadline of 12+2 has now surpassed with NO response from EGG . Could someone advise of next course of action please ??

 

Can i now send the dispute letter to Messrs Carter etc ...?

 

Should i wait for the SAR's deadline to pass before tackling EGG with their action to DEFAULT me without notification and whilst regular payments were maintained with no arrears ....?

 

Any advice would be much appreciated , thanx ???

[42man]

The next letter to send to Egg is this one -

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/571-failiure-to-provide-a-copy-of-the-agreement-within-the-prescribed-timescale

 

Await the 40 day deadline for the SAR, then send a Letter before action, with a copy of your original letter and a copy of the recorded delivery slip...

 

If it was an online agreement then all they would have to send you is the t's and c's, as all they need to show is a tick box showing you agreed to the t's and c's

[willeewonker]

Thanks again 42man for the swift response , will send the suggested letter A.S.A.P .

 

However after reading the letter i noticed this particular wording :

 

" Furthermore, you are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before you/your client enters into a default situation. "

 

So were does this leave me as they have already DEFAULTED the debt in

November 2008 without any notification whatsoever . Obviously my utlimate goal being that EGG remove the DEFAUT notice off my credit file .

 

And finally Bryan Carter have upped their ante a little with a further letter

demanding payment or proceedings to be issued without further notice and an e-mail of Fredrickson's saying the same . Which response would be my best course of action to them ??

 

Sorry for the waffle , just trying to convey everything i think is relevant

 

Willeewonker

[42man]

Send this recorded to Carters...

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I write in response to your letter dated XXXXX

 

Your letter is incorrect and frivolous, you are fully aware of legally valid reasons why no payment has been made on this account, namely that the agreement which underpins this account has not been supplied despite a perfectly valid request and furthermore, it is suggested that notwithstanding the failure to supply a copy, the agreement itself is improperly executed, devoid of all prescribed terms and deficient in respect of detail relating to APR, total charge for credit and statements of rights ,remedies and protections as required by schedules 1,2 and 6 Consumer Credit Agreements Regulations 1983

 

Therefore the agreement as outlined in section 65 (1) Consumer Credit Act must be laid before the court to be granted an enforcement order before any further action can be taken

 

It is my view that the court would not grant such an order due to the deficiencies that I have outlined within the agreement, further more this has already been raised with Egg yet I note they have still assigned the account over to yourselves and the absence of any documents disproving my points itself speaks volumes

 

Therefore, I would indeed welcome the opportunity to place this before the court. furthermore should you proceed with the threats to issue a court claim I will make an immediate application to have it set aside for the grounds outlined above, also I shall refer the judge to this letter when the matter of costs falls due

 

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you

[willeewonker]

42man , you are fastly becoming my hero - thank you . The letter made even me cringe a little with fear !!!

[willeewonker]

Quick update ....

 

No reply to CCA request , so sent the advised " Account in dispute " letter . However since posting said letter last week , EGG have now replied with the CCA .

 

Does there reply now invalidate my " Account in dispute " action , or as it was outside the prescribed timescales allowed , has " that horse already bolted " so to speak ???

 

Still awaiting the SAR and will post again soon as it's time scales are also very nearly upon us ....

 

Any further comments or advice would be much apprecciated , thanx ????

[smouk]

The CCA will 'settle' the dispute if it is valid. Can you post it up?

[Blondmusic]

Use Photobucket to post the CCA up so one of our site experts can tell you if it is enforceable or not. Photobucket is free to use here is the link.

 

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

 

You will need a scanner in order to scan the document into your computer and you can use the Paint program to edit out your personal details.

[willeewonker]

And for our next installment ......

 

with regards to posting up the CCA , not sure there is any issue there . They've sent me straight forward printed copies from my online application . Based on feedback from these forums , there's little to be gained from that fight although the T & C's is dubious to say the least .

 

I've been sent the " New , super improved , consumer forum " busting version , which were obviously not the original from when i applied . But any comments on this would be welcomed ???

 

As for my SAR request , that has now arrived ( and only a little late ) . However although every screen dumped statement with duplicated T & C's ( new version ) are there , in conjunction with printed tran scripts of data changes , logged telephone calls etc ... there are NO copy's of any Default Notice's or indeed letters of Termination .

 

So could someone please advise now as to my next course of action ???

 

Thanx again in anticipation ........ Willeewonker

[gazbo34]

Subbing

[willeewonker]

Ok people , another letter from Messrs Carter enclosing a duplicate copy of EGG's CCA arrived today .

 

Carter's now suggesting that now they've complied with my requests , they now give me 10 days to respond with payment .

 

So can anyone please post possible respones ?? Also as you can see from thread still hoping for advice as to SAR reply from EGG given no DEFAULT or TERMINATION evidence was sent ???

 

Thanks Willeewonker ..........

[norm1aj]

Guys

my nephew is in court next thursday on a similar matter (egg) to this thread. its a case hearing by the judge in Norwich. Its been ongoing now since they sued him in January and all the docs are on the table as it were.one pretty tatty looking copy of the original pre 2005 CCA.

judge threatened carters to come jup with cca etc in February and it appeared in april.offers have been made for a full and final but Carters have refused , best deal is 60 p/pound, so its go for broke time for the boy.

will keep you posted.

x

[willeewonker]

OK people , is there anyone that can offer any pearls of wisdom ??

I am in need of a reebuff from their latest assualt as mentioned in my previous post .....

 

Any advice would be most welcome ....???

[gazbo34]

Hey norm1aj, got my fingers crossed for your nephew. Dont forget to let us know how he gets on

[norm1aj]

newflash: rxd from Carters today an immaculate copy of the terms and conditions of the loan??!! This was thrown at them in June (where are T&C etc etc)

Phoned court as I smelled a rat, and the hearing is now delayed due to BC "being tardy" (judges words) in providing what was requested 3+ months ago. Cheeky bugger sent it to us 2 days after the court got it!

 

xx

[willeewonker]

Bumped !!!!!!

 

As i'm hoping the guru's of this site have been away on holidays etc ... and not been kidnapped by the banking establishments or worse .....

( they will use any and all dirty tactics available )

 

Can someone please advise on my next course of action ???

[toymaker1]

OK people , is there anyone that can offer any pearls of wisdom ??

I am in need of a reebuff from their latest assualt as mentioned in my previous post .....

 

Any advice would be most welcome ....???

 

Base upon what I understand from reading your posts, you could send a letter along the following lines to Bryan Carter & Co. Solicitors (if it is them): You could alter it to fit your exact situation.

 

Dear Bryan Carter & Co Solicitors.

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxxx.

 

As the solicitors acting for Fredrickson International in respect of my credit card agreement with Egg, you will be aware that the credit card agreement between Egg and myself is governed by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, therefore I would be grateful if you would indicate to me the relevant section of the Act which provided Egg with legal entitlement to terminate my Egg agreement with effect from 6th March 2008.

 

Also, I would be grateful if you would indicate to me the relevant section of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which provides Egg with legal entitlement to have a term in the Egg Card Agreement, specifically term 20.2, which states that Egg can end my agreement at any time.

 

In the course of acting in this matter on behalf of your client, Fredrickson International, you will have become aware that the debt claimed by your client is disputed by me.

 

My reasons for disputing the debt, as both you and your client are fully aware, arise from the fact that Egg terminated my Egg agreement in a manner which does not comply with the provisions of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As you know, paragraph 2.8 k. of the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance of July 2003, updated in December 2006, makes it clear that collection activity must cease whilst investigating a disputed debt. I look forward to the results of your investigation.

 

In the event that the dispute between Bryan Carter & Co Solicitors and Fredrickson International and Egg Banking plc and myself is put before a court for adjudication, I will draw the court’s attention to the following points.

 

Both you and your client Fredrickson International, although fully aware that the debt is disputed, have continued collection activity in breach of paragraph 2.8k. of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance.

 

Both you and your client have ignored and disregarded the fact, of which both you and your client are fully aware, that the debt claimed by Egg Banking plc is disputed by me, and both you and your client have continued to make unjustified demands for payment, in breach of paragraphs 2.6h. and 2.8i. of the OFT Debt collection Guidance.

 

Both you and your client have communicated with me in a manner which presents information in such a way that it creates a false or misleading impression, and exploits my lack of knowledge, for example, my lack of knowledge of the law in relation to your own. Specifically, I am referring to your letter dated xxxxx in which you state that court proceedings will be instituted unless I pay your client an amount of money. You also state that I can stop the claim being issued and the debt increasing by paying in full now. I consider that this amounts to unfair business practice, psychological harassment and a misrepresentation of the correct legal position within the terms of paragraphs 2.2b, 2.3, 2.6f, 2.10a, 2.10b of the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines.

 

I also consider that the way in which your client has exercised his rights under the agreement amount to an unfair relationship in terms of section 140 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as amended by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

 

 

 

In the event that this matter is put before a court I will draw the court’s attention to the manner in which Bryan Carter Solicitors and Fredrickson International and Egg Banking plc have dealt with the dispute between Bryan Carter Solicitors and Fredrickson International and Egg Banking plc and myself, particularly in relation to,

The Consumer Credit Act 1974,

The Data Protection Act 1998,

The Office of Fair Trading Guidance on Debt Collection and Unfair Business Practices (Updated December 2006),

The Solicitors’ Code of Conduct 2007,

The Credit Services Association Code Of Practice.

The pre-action protocols which have been approved by the Head of Civil Justice.

I am confident that Egg, and the parties acting on behalf of Egg will, as I will, provide to the court full records of the matters to which I have referred.

 

Yours sincerely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hope there is something in there you can use

regards

Edited July 6, 2009 by toymaker1
spelling! and too many "yours faithfully"

[NailPost]

Weewillie - we've still not seen the cca which egg sent you so no one here can advise if it complies with what's required or not. If it is you need to address the matter in a different way. If it isn't you don't need to write much more than a short note to Carters and Freds telling them to carwl back under their stone.

[willeewonker]

Thanks for reply NailPost . Have not posted CCA as i believe this to be ( from hours of trawling this superb site ) a standard printed aggreement circa 2006 , which whilst obviously a doctered updated version of my original has no weight in a legal sense as i cant prove this to be so ???

 

However , if your suggesting there would be cause for action from this i would be more than happy to post ?

 

My understanding is that legally i would have far more grounds for defence exploring the route of the terminated aggreement whilst account was not in arrears or default , and that a DN was never even issued ???

 

But again i'm a novice and would happily be advised if opinion differs on this ?????

[willeewonker]

Toymaker1 , cant thank you enough for your post . I will use with a couple of subtle changes in it's entirity . However , it dosn't suggest that i want anything other than the obvious cesation of activity . Do i address the issue of DN and its removal within this correspondance or am i " running before a brisk walk " ??

 

Thanx willeewonker ..........