London Underground

[mikeldn]

Does the court summons have to arrive within six months? There are many stories here of it arriving even a week before the time is up, but you say they decide within a few weeks?

[Old-CodJA]

No, the information alleging any charge must be laid with the Court within 6 months of the incident to which it relates. That will be in the form of a prepared Summons stating the nature of the offence and detailing the legislation that it is alleged an offence has been comitted under. If all is in order, an authorised legal advisor at the Court will complete issue of the Summons by signing and dating it and returning it to the prosecution office to be served on the defendant in good time for the listed hearing.

 

That means that frequently a Court hearing date might be as much as 7 or even 8 months after the date on which the allegation was reported. A lot depends on how busy the prosecution office is and how busy the listing diary is at the Court that they are trying to list with.

 

The Summons must be served on the alleged offender not less than 7 days before the Court hearing and in practice, most Courts will insist on 10 to 14 days before as being more acceptable.

 

There are a whole host of good reasons why the Summons might not be served until four or five months after the offence, not least of which will be the time taken to deal with extended correspondence and undertaking any further investigations, gathering professional witness statements etc

Edited February 2, 2011 by Old-CodJA
corrected spelling

[Wriggler7]

At the moment, there are some delays caused by the 're-organisation' of the Court service. Two of the Courts that I visit are listed for 'closure', and a lot of the 'backroom' offices are being moved around. This is all part of a general shake up intended to save money.

 

It is not unusual to be hearing cases where the offnce happened almost a year previously.

 

'Fare dodging' is a 'summary only' offence, that is to say that it can only be heard in a Magistrates Court. 'Informations' for summary offences must be 'laid' within 6 months of the date of the alleged offence.

 

In practice, that will normally mean that the prosecutors will be looking to make a decision within a couple of months, although some offenders make that decision easy, and the matter can be in front of a Court within 4 to 5 weeks.

[mikeldn]

what will happen to cases which are to be heard in courts that will be closed?

if tfl decides to drop a case because of lack of evidence or whatever, do they have to inform the person concerned?

[Wriggler7]

When 'I were a lad', cases had to be heard in the 'Petty Sessional Division' where the offence allegedly took place, however, recent legislation allows a case to be heard in any Magistrates Court, so if a chap in Middlesborough fishes on a stream in Devon without a licence, the case can be heard at Southend or 'anywhere'. Cases that would normally have been heard at (for example) Grays, which is listed for closure, will be heard at Basildon or one of the remaining Essex Courts.

 

If a prosecuting authority chooses to 'stop' a prosecution, they need to inform 'all parties', the potential defendant, the Court, the alleged victim and witnesses.

[Hawkeye007]

I am trying to contact a Revenue Inspector who works for the Underground, all I have is a name, is there anyone or anyway I can leave a message for him to contact me?

[Old-CodJA]

You will need to contact the London Underground Ltd personnel department.

 

No-one will, or should, provide any personal details relating to staff for obvious security reasons.

 

The best course of action is for you to write to him by name via the LUL personnel office and provide your contact details for him to contact you if he wishes to do so.

 

.

[Grotesque]

Or leave your number with RMT helpline 8)

 

[bumbl3]

On Jan 26, 2011, after several bus and tube journeys, all correctly logged on my Oyster Card, I travelled on a BR train from East Barnet to Alexandra Palace. I failed to click in as I was in a hurry to board the train. I was challenged by an Inspector on arrival, and accused of fare evasion. I have now received a summons to attend Court.

 

At no stage did I intend to defraud TfL of the fare. I had probably spent as much, (or nearly as much), as the cost of a One Day Travel Card already. Should I plead "guilty" or "not guilty" ? What are the probable outcomes of each plea ? Many Thanks Bumbl3

[Stigy]

On Jan 26, 2011, after several bus and tube journeys, all correctly logged on my Oyster Card, I travelled on a BR train from East Barnet to Alexandra Palace. I failed to click in as I was in a hurry to board the train. I was challenged by an Inspector on arrival, and accused of fare evasion. I have now received a summons to attend Court.

 

At no stage did I intend to defraud TfL of the fare. I had probably spent as much, (or nearly as much), as the cost of a One Day Travel Card already. Should I plead "guilty" or "not guilty" ? What are the probable outcomes of each plea ? Many Thanks Bumbl3

What you plead is entirely up to you, and it would be wrong of us here to advised exactly what to plead, as we weren't there, and don't know the full story. Unfortunately you failed to tap ypur Oyster Card, which is nobody's fault but your own, therefore, even if not intentional you have committed an offence. Whether it was deliberate or not only serves as far as the severity of the offence goes I'm afraid.

 

You could write back to TfL and state that you really don't want to go to court, and you're prepared to meet any reasonable admin charges in order to stay out of court. Say you're sorry and admit it was your mistake. This will save the potential of a criminal record and a court fine. TfL don't have to accept, but it's often the best course of action to take given that I'm assuming you're not a fare evader and could do without a criminal record.

[Old-CodJA]

On Jan 26, 2011, after several bus and tube journeys, all correctly logged on my Oyster Card, I travelled on a BR train from East Barnet to Alexandra Palace. I failed to click in as I was in a hurry to board the train. I was challenged by an Inspector on arrival, and accused of fare evasion. I have now received a summons to attend Court.

 

At no stage did I intend to defraud TfL of the fare. I had probably spent as much, (or nearly as much), as the cost of a One Day Travel Card already. Should I plead "guilty" or "not guilty" ? What are the probable outcomes of each plea ? Many Thanks Bumbl3

 

Much depends on what you have been charged with. What does it say on the Summons??

 

If you have been charged with 'intent to avoid a fare' contrary to Section 5.3.a of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889) then your intention is relevant and you can enter a plea according to your concsience.

 

If you have been charged with 'Failed to show a rail ticket when asked' contrary to National Railways Byelaw 18.2 (2005) then whether you intended to avoid a fare or not isn't the issue. There is a strict liability requirement to hold a valid ticket when facilities were available to you. You can explain your intention in putting forward mitigation.

 

By 'East' Barnet I am guessing that you travelled on FCC from either High Barnet or Oakleigh Park stations?

[sachi]

Hi,

 

I had recently lost my student oyster and used my sister's 16+ oyster to travel into London on Thursday, 27 January, instead of immediately buying a new oyster, (because I was stupidly waiting till Monday so I could buy a weekly ticket). Inevitably, a bus inspector caught me and so fast-forward, and I have a court summons for 28 April 2011, against Regulation 7 (1) (b) - No passenger on a vehicle being used for the carriage of passengers at separate fares shall use any ticket which has been issued for use by another person on terms that it is not transferable.

 

I did send a letter of apology and offered to pay any incurred costs, but this was unsuccessful.

 

I talked to the inspector and explained that I had lost my own student oyster and I was therefore using my sister's while I was waiting to purchase a new oyster. In the statement of facts, which came with the summons, this is not included. The only explanation in the statement of facts is that I said' my sister was lettin me use it' - I assume the g in letting was specifically missed out to manipulate the language, in order to stereotype me.Also, it states that when I was informed that I was being reported, I said, "oh, alright," which I am 100% sure is untrue.

 

Is there any way I can avoid going to court/receiving a criminal record? I am a final year student and a record will seriously jeopardise my employment prospects in my chosen field.

 

Thank you,

 

Sachi

Edited April 2, 2011 by sachi
missed out some crucial information

[Wriggler7]

The 'important' facts seem to be in 'the evidence', which would tend to make a defence difficult, but the omission of your explanation does give 'the defence' something to pick on.

 

However, I feel that your explanation is 'only' mitigation, and as (after a guilty plea) mitigation is not normally challenged by 'prosecution', I do not think that it is a big issue.

 

At this stage of process, I feel that the best that you can do is to attend Court, plead guilty, tell your version of events and then set out your 'income'.

[Mozi]

I was caught by inspector, when I was going through the gates. he writen my name, surname and adress in his paper notebook, and said that underground will send me a letter with warning, fare or smth else. what would happen, if I won't pay the fare? i'm not planning to live in that adress for long time, and don't have money..

[Stigy]

I was caught by inspector, when I was going through the gates. he writen my name, surname and adress in his paper notebook, and said that underground will send me a letter with warning, fare or smth else. what would happen, if I won't pay the fare? i'm not planning to live in that adress for long time, and don't have money..

If you do only have to pay the fare with admin charges attached, I'd happily take it. Unfortunately if sounds as though he reported you for an offence, unless a Penalty Fare was issued at the time. If you were reported you've got every chance of being summonsed to a Magistrates' Court. You'll know this for sure when they write to you.

[confuse]

Hi, I got caught using a child ticket on london underground!?

 

It was such a stupid act!!! I will regret this forever. I decided to do it because I forgot my railcard today (which usually gives me discount) and the normal day travelcard is expensive . So there I got caught by the inspector and I had to give my name and address and real date of birth (as I tried to lie initially ). The thing is, he said that all I would get would be a letter telling me not to do this again. Is this the truth? or anything more serious could happen to me?

Btw I am 18 years of age.

Please help if possible ((((((((

[Old-CodJA]

Hi, I got caught using a child ticket on london underground!?

 

It was such a stupid act!!! I will regret this forever. I decided to do it because I forgot my railcard today (which usually gives me discount) and the normal day travelcard is expensive . So there I got caught by the inspector and I had to give my name and address and real date of birth (as I tried to lie initially ). The thing is, he said that all I would get would be a letter telling me not to do this again. Is this the truth? or anything more serious could happen to me?

Btw I am 18 years of age.

Please help if possible ((((((((

 

I wonder is possible that you may have either misheard or misunderstood what he said?

 

It is very likely that he will have told you that 'you will get a letter', but very rare that the inspector can make a decision about what the letter will say before it has been written

 

As you are over 18 it is entirely possible that you will receive a letter advising you that TfL are considering prosecutiing an allegation that you attempted tp avoid the proper fare and asking you to make any comments that you wish to be considered before they go ahead.

 

I usually advise that a letter apologising and offering to pay all their reasonably incurred costs is a good idea in trying to avoid that action, but you should wait until you actually receive their letter before you do anything.

[confuse]

I wonder is possible that you may have either misheard or misunderstood what he said?

 

It is very likely that he will have told you that 'you will get a letter', but very rare that the inspector can make a decision about what the letter will say before it has been written

 

As you are over 18 it is entirely possible that you will receive a letter advising you that TfL are considering prosecutiing an allegation that you attempted tp avoid the proper fare and asking you to make any comments that you wish to be considered before they go ahead.

 

I usually advise that a letter apologising and offering to pay all their reasonably incurred costs is a good idea in trying to avoid that action, but you should wait until you actually receive their letter before you do anything.

 

Thanks.

Is it any more likely that I will get a fine than a summon to court?

[Old-CodJA]

ONLY a Court can impose a fine

 

You should wait for that letter and then respond in an attempt to get FCC to settle without going to Court.

 

You really will need to be patient for a little while I'm afraid. When you get the letter you will know who you are dealing with, at what address, your file reference and what they intend to do about it.

 

When you get the letter, come back and let us know.

 

Until then just try not to worry.

[Grotesque]

I was caught by inspector, when I was going through the gates. he writen my name, surname and adress in his paper notebook, and said that underground will send me a letter with warning, fare or smth else. what would happen, if I won't pay the fare? i'm not planning to live in that adress for long time, and don't have money..

 

Fare dodger getting what's coming to you I guess. Good luck!

[Wriggler7]

At present, there is a lot of 'catching up' going on, the Courts are getting to grips with some very old fines. Ignore a prosecuting authority at your peril, the case may go through Court, fine notices may get posted, you may choose to ignore all of it. And then one day, unexpectedly, you may find yourself arrested for non payment, held in cells until 'Court' and then have parts of your wealth removed.

 

It happens, at present, it is happening a lot. And no silvery tongued defender of the guilty can prevent it.

 

I think you should face the matter, deal with it, before it creeps up behind you.

[sxpillai]

After my wife got in to trouble with oyster, I got this forum by luck.

My wife found a lost blue oyster at a super store. She checked the oyster after two days and confirmed that it was not a travel card and was not cancelled, so she thought

(Oyster PAYG cards are fully transferable just so long as there is no ticket loaded onto the Oyster card like a Travel card (for the zones in which the person is traveling) which has a non-transferable status. If the card is purely loaded with funds for PAYG travel it matters not who it is registered to.) (I took from this form)

So she just kept it in her hand bag and used it on buses for three days. On that third day she was caught by Revenue inspector and told that it is an income support oyster that my wife didn't notice when she used it. Inspector collected wife's name and address and issued a RTM ticket for her to continue the journey. My wife didn’t sign on anything.

 

Now after 5 days, we got a letter from TFL requesting the comments before their legal procedures. We confirm that this is purely an incident and we never dream to do a fraud. Any Advice??

[honeybee13]

Hello there. Not many of the guys are around at the moment, but I'm sure they will answer you when they can.

 

Could you tell us a bit more about what the letter says please, without identifying yourself or your wife? From reading the forum, I don't think this is very good because IS cards are funded by the taxpayer. I understand you wouldn't knowingly commit fraud, but how did your wife check the Oyster balance and why didn't she hand it in please?

 

If you tell us what's being asked by TfL, then hopefully someone can help you concoct a reply, if that's what you want help with.

 

My best, HB

[sxpillai]

Thanks HB

It is saying that @failing to produce a Valid ticket, Pass or Oyster for your journey'

She checked in the local shop only, and, unfourtnately she put into her hand bag.

Rgds

[sxpillai]

'on 27th may ..............................Yoy were reported to TFL for failing the produce a valid TICKET, PASS or OYSTERCARD for your journey. The fact of this incident are being considered ans I must advise you that legal proceedings may be taken against you in accordance with TFL's Prosecution plocy.

 

If you have any comments to make about this insident please write them on the reverse side.......................................

 

Should your pass have been withdrawn because you were unable to produce a valid photocard to acompany it, please enclose a photcopy of that photocard with your reply. If you had been unable to produce a pass because you ddin't have with you, please enclose a photocopy of that pass with your reply.

In the case of Oyster card, please include the full serial number in your reply.

 

You don't have to reply ro this letter but ......................................

 

Failure to respond this letter may result in the matter being progressed by TFL with out further notification.

 

_____________________________________

I know that we are trouble but like evey one, I want to settle this one with a penalty and without damaging her and my name.

Any appropriate advise will be higly appriciated.