Back Back Forth and Forth - Baliff chasing me with a wheel clamp

[youcantholdmedown]

Hi,

I had a visit from a bailiff company a few months ago regarding a ticket for parking on a single yellow - there were no signs that parking was restricted anywhere - the ticket was illegal. (I had started reading CAG about that time)

I went to the council’s parking services department at the town hall to complain about some other tickets but was told that I had to go to a county court and make a declaration that I had not received a notice for this one.

I sent this and heard nothing, then all of a sudden - a good few months later - a big grey van appears outside my house - parking on the pavement, blocking two cars on our drive.

Two single celled bailiffs were loitering around the back of their van when I snuck out of my house and jumped in my vehicle and started to reverse out of my drive.

The seven foot tall and seven foot wide bailiff looked at me in total horror, went red with anger and disbelief then charged up to my vehicle and violently tried to open the passenger side door. I'm surprised it did not break.

His sidekick then jumped into his van and dangerously moved his van to block me in, accelerating dangerously.

Both of them then came up to my window and started shouting saying that the car was theirs.

I said that as they had not placed a clamp on my vehicle they could not levy any debt and that they should move their truck as they were preventing me from leaving my property. They disagreed, so I said I was calling the police.

I explained to police that bailiffs were blocking my drive and breaking the law. I said that no clamp had been placed on my vehicle and they should be told to move on.

The bailiff then got on the phone and said to me soooo confidently, with crazed eyes, that "this will cost you dearly..." and he said that he was calling a truck to have my car lifted - with me in it. I then started filming the bailiffs with my mobile phone.

I also phoned the police again (sitting in my locked car on my drive) and said that things were getting out of hand and that they should attend as the bailiff was becoming hostile and threatening.

Then one of the bailiffs went to the back his truck and got a clamp.

I called the police again and they said that someone would call me back who knows bailiff law. They did not call back.

He then walked up to my car and started to remove the hub cap (??) - it was clear he was trying to clamp a car with a running engine.

I then started to move gently forwards and then gently backwards to prevent being clamped.

I could not believe what was happening. This went on for about 30mins. Back two foot, forth two foot. Comedic on one hand, disastrous on the other.

A white van then arrived with four two-foot CCTV cameras on each corner of the roof (WTF?????!!!!!). This was obviously for embarrassment - and it is clear that they only called the truck to cause a scene outside my house.

Two more 7't/7'w single celled bailiffs exited the vehicle and then there were two vans and four thuggish looking people causing a scene outside my house. I remained in the car and had a cup of tea dropped to me. I was prepared to sit this out.

I called the police again and said that more bailiffs had arrived and they were restricting the enjoyment of my land - and preventing me from getting on with my business. They said that they would send a patrol car.

The bailiff then opened his van door, reducing the amount of space I had to move back and forth.

The bailiff then started shouting at me - quite violently claiming that I had hit his van (i.e. his car door that he had purposely opened to become closer to my vehicle, blocking the pavement etc) and started to call the police. I heard him say to police that I had caused criminal damage to his van, that I had threatened his and his colleague's lives by driving my car back and forth, attempted murder and that this was dangerous driving and that I must be arrested immediately as he was a bailiff. All bollocks and evidence of someone who has obviously played the system to their own financial benefit - perverting the cause of justice no doubt. Two police officers arrived, the van with camera's immediately disappeared. I asked if they were on his side or mine – he said neither and they were here to keep the peace.

Another patrol car arrived (the one I called with someone with bailiff expertise) – but they were told to move on by the other officers that had arrived first, who were called by the bailiff.

Do you know if the bailiff would call 999, local police station or a police officer directly (mobile phone) for assistance?

I was sternly told to turn my engine off, place the keys on the dash, place my hands were the police could see them, nobody move, nobody get hurt. A hostile situation outside my own house!

I said that the bailiffs were blocking me in and that police should ask them to move immediately and I had embarrassed the bailiff as I had entered my vehicle before he had placed a clamp on it.

The bailiff then started his cry baby statement saying that I had criminally damaged his van, threatened the life of his employee, was driving dangerously, prevented the bailiff from performing his court approved business blah blah and I should be arrested immediately. I could not believe my ears – no wonder bailiffs have such a bad reputation. I said that as I had embarrassed him as he failed to clamp my vehicle he was willing to try anything, perverting the cause of justice etc, to get his win.

The police ignored the bailiff's criminal damage claim (there was no damage to either vehicle) but the bailiff would not accept this and tried to get the police to arrest me for another five minutes. The police told the bailiff that they would not act. It was obvious he was not at all happy that he did not see me arrested. (He had quite childish mannerisms).

He then showed the police officer a pink sheet of paper with a bailiff company name & logo - he told police that it was a warrant issued by a court. I looked at it and I said that this was just a piece of paper - not a warrant of any kind.

The police then said that I had to pay or have my car taken.

I said that as I was in my car, how could they take it - surely that's illegal (picturing myself in traffic, in my car, sitting on a tow truck, on the way to a pound - cor... this is England? great purveyor of justice respected throughout the civilised world???? bah!)...

I was told that as he had a warrant, I should pay or have the car removed. I refused and things got heated.

The bailiff then said he was calling a truck to lift my car and it would cost me dearly again.

The bailiff (obviously loving his job) then started claiming that he did not work for a private company and that he was employed directly by the court which gave him much more power than anyone from a parking company. The police seemed to agree with this - and respected him as if he was a real court bailiff.

I laughed at him, and said that it was obvious that he was employed by a private bailiff company - who I believed had a contract with the council to collect parking fines - he was definitely not employed by the court! I‘d like to see a court stamped payslip to prove this!

I decided enough was enough - the stress, hostility, embarrassment from bailiff and police was too much - and that my human rights etc were severely affected by the actions of the bailiff - and police.

I then said that I will see how much money I have indoors (they wanted £500 odd).

As I came back outside I was surprised to see just how friendly the police were with the bailiff, it then struck me that these four people were very good friends. They continued chatting, joking, laughing etc outside my house, I said cor, do you guys live together or something - & can't you save your chit chat for when you get home? they all scorned.

I then went back inside for bit, when I came back out I was shocked to see one of the police officers sitting in the bailiff van looking at all the james bond gadgets the bailiffs have – “to get the bad guys” is what i heard (i.e. civilians).

This was the van that had blocked me in, I thought police were there to prevent breach of police, not appear to be in total cahoots with the bailiff?

The other police officer then swapped places in the van so I decided to take a picture of the police officer, who had been called to keep the peace outside my house, sitting in the van - impartial they were not.

The bailiff then said that I was taking pictures to police, the police looked a tad worried, I paid, got my receipt and they left. Then one of the police officers got out of his vehicle and started saying something about the yellow lines on the road (not outside my house/drive)

The police left and as the bailiff was about to leave, with a big big Cheshire cat grin on his face, I shouted "see you in court in about two weeks - form four for you my friend" (thank you CAG) - his look of glee dissipated immediately and he left - I had obviously hit a chord.

Now, how can I get my money + damages back?

The bailiff lied to police, levied on a car he had not clamped so I was forced to pay, he tried to violently get in my car,

he was quite simply not a bailiff fit to carry a certificate.

NOW, where do I stand?

- I will IPCC against the police officers (seemed way too good friends for me) - who failed to make him leave, blocked me in, assisted theft?

- Form four against the bailiff

- Get a refund?

 

anything else???

 

is a fine still payable if a clamp has not been applied and the owner is in the vehicle reversing out of his drive?

 

It makes me sick that the government/police/local authorities allow bailiffs to operate like this!

 

There should be a minimum IQ for anyone wanting to become a bailiff.

[tendogs]

It seems that this bailiff did have a minimum IQ. I have no understanding of this area of the law but I'd like to keep an eye on your thread so I might learn something. Good luck.

[youcantholdmedown]

Sorry For The Extraordinarily Long Post!

[tendogs]

That is not a sorry face

[chris600uk]

It's nice to get so much detail...

 

Well you do seem to have covered it, don't you.

 

In your place I would definitely make a complaint about the Police actions, their behaviour is not isolated, for some reason they only seem to want to enforce the law when it suits them. Otherwise it's just too much trouble and they'll do everything they can to obstruct justice.

 

There must have been some witnesses to the whole business.

You need more than just your word against the bailiffs and the police, don't expect either of them to tell the truth.

[letsmakeamark]

If you out of time (pe2/3) Or witness statement/late witness statement were refused you can apply to the court officers decision set aside. You need a n224 and you have to file this with a £75 fee. which you can claim back at your hearing. Once the judge accepts your application then you can go after the bailiffs as the warrant is no longer valid.

[Guest Happy Contrails]

1. You indicate the ticket is illegal because of inadequate signage, have you taken photos or does Google street view confirm this? Speak to a parking tickets expert to find out if you have grounds to have it revoked, this is your trump card.

 

2. You say Single celled bailiffs, were they in decontamination shell suits? Not much legislation on bailiff attire, only codes of practice.

 

3. You say the bailiff violently opened the passenger door/removed a hubcap. Have a look at the Criminal Damage Act 1971 and Offences Against the Person Act 1861. Did a bailiff commit an offence by coming into physical contact with you or damage your property or car.

 

4. You caught this on video using your mobile, and say the bailiff shouted quite violently. Does the footage show a bailiff causing a public disturbance in the meaning of Section 4/5 of the Public Order Act 1986?

 

5. In answer to your question: Do you know if the bailiff would call 999, local police station or a police officer directly (mobile phone) for assistance? Answer: Yes, bailiffs do call police. From personal experience only after catching a bailiff causing criminal damage to a fire exit door and I pointed out a CCTV camera recording everything he was doing. The camera then recorded the bailiff getting out his mobile and dialing 999.

 

6. I don't know if a bailiff can clamp a moving/occupied car but I do know clamping a vehicle on private land is in Breach of the Statute of Marlborough 1267, a very old law which prevents seizure of goods on private land. I don’t know how much weight it carries but….

 

7. The police are not allowed to assist a bailiff, but reporting an officer for Assisting an Offender in the meaning of the Criminal law Act 1967 will be an uphill struggle, your first port of call for your complaint is the Force's Chief Police Officer then the IPCC then your MP.

 

8. The Bailiff wanted £500? The law that prescribes bailiff fees for collecting unpaid tickets is: Schedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993, One bailiff visit and you did not sign anything then the bailiff fee is £28 and £11.20 for a letter. If a bailiff charges you more and you have not signed anything and no goods were moved using a vehicle then no other fees are due, otherwise the bailiff commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 and you can ask a police authority the bailiff is arrested and charged under the Act. If the police are unwilling to investigate or pass the case to CPS then may need to go to the IPCC and ask the officers are investigated for Perverting the Course of Justice. Expect a struggle persuading the authorities to charge a police officer, its goes on their permanent records and breaking the Masonic bond is very difficult.

 

9. You say you have paid. Your now must get the ticket revoked and reclaim all your losses from the council, use the Small Claims Track for this. Use www.moneyclaimonline.gov.uk. Its then up to the council to recover it from the bailiffs. Councils are liable for its agents. Keep a record of all your disbursements plus interest in each amount at 8% from the date each disbursement occurred

 

10. You can Form 4 the bailiff but have your evidence ready because the Judge will ask for it. Check he has a certificate and which court issued it by calling the Bailiff public register on (their new number) 020 3334 6355.

 

11. You say assisted theft. If you have been over-charged by a bailiff then get a finding of fact in the Small Claims Track you have a good case against the officers for Assisting.

 

12. You ask Get a Refund? Requests must be directed to the council issuing the ticket, See point 9 above, Never name a bailiff a joint defendant with the council.

 

13. Your Question: is a fine still payable if a clamp has not been applied. See Point 8 above, broadly speaking, no levy took place then no fee is due. Parking ticket (fine) itself is still payable.

 

14. You said It makes me sick that the government/police/local authorities allow bailiffs to operate like this! I speak from experience and it took me 18 months to clear up. The council ended up losing over £160,000 of taxpayers money over this one ticket. The bailiff company lost many local authority contracts, it later changed its company name and tried to win those contracts back. The police officers had their permanent career records affected by their ineptness and making an incorrect interpretation of the law. The council had every opportunity to reach an amicable resolve but it was their choice to slog it out in court.

 

If you paid the bailiff by credit card then you are laughing! Execute a chargeback under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because, among other things, the bailiff applied undue pressure on you to enter into a credit transaction. Phone your bank for a chargeback form.

[letsmakeamark]

You need to listen to what is being said. You need to file a n244 to bring this to a end. unless you file this you have nothing to fight with. Regarding the council thing that is correc. Get as much paperwork together and once your application has been accepted you can then go after the la. Post here once it has been done.

[lamb to the slaughter]

1. You indicate the ticket is illegal because of inadequate signage, have you taken photos or does Google street view confirm this? Speak to a parking tickets expert to find out if you have grounds to have it revoked, this is your trump card.

 

2. You say Single celled bailiffs, were they in decontamination shell suits? Not much legislation on bailiff attire, only codes of practice.

 

3. You say the bailiff violently opened the passenger door/removed a hubcap. Have a look at the Criminal Damage Act 1971 and Offences Against the Person Act 1861. Did a bailiff commit an offence by coming into physical contact with you or damage your property or car.

 

4. You caught this on video using your mobile, and say the bailiff shouted quite violently. Does the footage show a bailiff causing a public disturbance in the meaning of Section 4/5 of the Public Order Act 1986?

 

5. In answer to your question: Do you know if the bailiff would call 999, local police station or a police officer directly (mobile phone) for assistance? Answer: Yes, bailiffs do call police. From personal experience only after catching a bailiff causing criminal damage to a fire exit door and I pointed out a CCTV camera recording everything he was doing. The camera then recorded the bailiff getting out his mobile and dialing 999.

 

6. I don't know if a bailiff can clamp a moving/occupied car but I do know clamping a vehicle on private land is in Breach of the Statute of Marlborough 1267, a very old law which prevents seizure of goods on private land. I don’t know how much weight it carries but….

 

7. The police are not allowed to assist a bailiff, but reporting an officer for Assisting an Offender in the meaning of the Criminal law Act 1967 will be an uphill struggle, your first port of call for your complaint is the Force's Chief Police Officer then the IPCC then your MP.

 

8. The Bailiff wanted £500? The law that prescribes bailiff fees for collecting unpaid tickets is: Schedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993, One bailiff visit and you did not sign anything then the bailiff fee is £28 and £11.20 for a letter. If a bailiff charges you more and you have not signed anything and no goods were moved using a vehicle then no other fees are due, otherwise the bailiff commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 and you can ask a police authority the bailiff is arrested and charged under the Act. If the police are unwilling to investigate or pass the case to CPS then may need to go to the IPCC and ask the officers are investigated for Perverting the Course of Justice. Expect a struggle persuading the authorities to charge a police officer, its goes on their permanent records and breaking the Masonic bond is very difficult.

 

9. You say you have paid. Your now must get the ticket revoked and reclaim all your losses from the council, use the Small Claims Track for this. Use www.moneyclaimonline.gov.uk. Its then up to the council to recover it from the bailiffs. Councils are liable for its agents. Keep a record of all your disbursements plus interest in each amount at 8% from the date each disbursement occurred

 

10. You can Form 4 the bailiff but have your evidence ready because the Judge will ask for it. Check he has a certificate and which court issued it by calling the Bailiff public register on (their new number) 020 3334 6355.

 

11. You say assisted theft. If you have been over-charged by a bailiff then get a finding of fact in the Small Claims Track you have a good case against the officers for Assisting.

 

12. You ask Get a Refund? Requests must be directed to the council issuing the ticket, See point 9 above, Never name a bailiff a joint defendant with the council.

 

13. Your Question: is a fine still payable if a clamp has not been applied. See Point 8 above, broadly speaking, no levy took place then no fee is due. Parking ticket (fine) itself is still payable.

 

14. You said It makes me sick that the government/police/local authorities allow bailiffs to operate like this! I speak from experience and it took me 18 months to clear up. The council ended up losing over £160,000 of taxpayers money over this one ticket. The bailiff company lost many local authority contracts, it later changed its company name and tried to win those contracts back. The police officers had their permanent career records affected by their ineptness and making an incorrect interpretation of the law. The council had every opportunity to reach an amicable resolve but it was their choice to slog it out in court.

 

If you paid the bailiff by credit card then you are laughing! Execute a chargeback under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because, among other things, the bailiff applied undue pressure on you to enter into a credit transaction. Phone your bank for a chargeback form.

 

wow what a mind of information you are and some good stuff in there which i might care to remember

[youcantholdmedown]

Unfortunately it is the second time the police have failed me - i did complain to the ipcc and won over a year ago, but nothing was done.

The same thing happened, police helped 'administer' the levy - i.e. i refused to talk to bailiff and relayed everything thru police, police said i got to pay or bailiff will take.

I'm thinking of suing the police for failing me twice now.

[youcantholdmedown]

witnesses: I have several and some mobile video footage which I hope will suffice

[youcantholdmedown]

If you out of time (pe2/3) Or witness statement/late witness statement were refused you can apply to the court officers decision set aside. You need a n224 and you have to file this with a £75 fee. which you can claim back at your hearing. Once the judge accepts your application then you can go after the bailiffs as the warrant is no longer valid.

 

hi, thanks, i was told by bailiff that it was refused on the friday, when they received notice from council to collect, so they attended on the saturday

 

seeing that i have paid the warrant, if i file a n224 and it is accepted, how can i get my money back? form 4 or from council?

[youcantholdmedown]

1. You indicate the ticket is illegal because of inadequate signage, have you taken photos or does Google street view confirm this? Speak to a parking tickets expert to find out if you have grounds to have it revoked, this is your trump card.

 

yes i have - there are no signs on the road, there are signs on the adjacent road/entrance road but these relate to a zone or something - but where the car was parked, there were no visible signs

 

2. You say Single celled bailiffs, were they in decontamination shell suits? Not much legislation on bailiff attire, only codes of practice.

 

i.e. Amoeba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

3. You say the bailiff violently opened the passenger door/removed a hubcap. Have a look at the Criminal Damage Act 1971 and Offences Against the Person Act 1861. Did a bailiff commit an offence by coming into physical contact with you or damage your property or car.

 

there was no damage, he was fuming when he realised i was in the car, he then violently grabbed the door handle - it's nearer threatening behaviour - road rage even

i do believe that if the door was open, he would have become violent

 

4. You caught this on video using your mobile, and say the bailiff shouted quite violently. Does the footage show a bailiff causing a public disturbance in the meaning of Section 4/5 of the Public Order Act 1986?

 

not sure as yet! but i do intend on youtubing it soon

 

5. In answer to your question: Do you know if the bailiff would call 999, local police station or a police officer directly (mobile phone) for assistance? Answer: Yes, bailiffs do call police. From personal experience only after catching a bailiff causing criminal damage to a fire exit door and I pointed out a CCTV camera recording everything he was doing. The camera then recorded the bailiff getting out his mobile and dialing 999.

 

I am hoping that the court will be able to access the bailiffs call for po,lice help- as this will prove to be wildly exaggerated

 

6. I don't know if a bailiff can clamp a moving/occupied car but I do know clamping a vehicle on private land is in Breach of the Statute of Marlborough 1267, a very old law which prevents seizure of goods on private land. I don’t know how much weight it carries but….

 

i will mention, but i saw a bailiff programme a few yrs back where they could not take a car if someone (or a pet etc) was inside, does that still apply?

 

7. The police are not allowed to assist a bailiff, but reporting an officer for Assisting an Offender in the meaning of the Criminal law Act 1967 will be an uphill struggle, your first port of call for your complaint is the Force's Chief Police Officer then the IPCC then your MP.

 

i'm gonna go ipcc straight away - they will pass to police PSD anyway first

 

8. The Bailiff wanted £500? The law that prescribes bailiff fees for collecting unpaid tickets is: Schedule 1 of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs)(Amended 2003) Regulations 1993, One bailiff visit and you did not sign anything then the bailiff fee is £28 and £11.20 for a letter. If a bailiff charges you more and you have not signed anything and no goods were moved using a vehicle then no other fees are due, otherwise the bailiff commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 and you can ask a police authority the bailiff is arrested and charged under the Act. If the police are unwilling to investigate or pass the case to CPS then may need to go to the IPCC and ask the officers are investigated for Perverting the Course of Justice. Expect a struggle persuading the authorities to charge a police officer, its goes on their permanent records and breaking the Masonic bond is very difficult.

 

my life is a struggle but i would rather struggle with an authority (the pen is mightier!) than with a dumb bailiff!

 

9. You say you have paid. Your now must get the ticket revoked and reclaim all your losses from the council, use the Small Claims Track for this. Use www.moneyclaimonline.gov.uk. Its then up to the council to recover it from the bailiffs. Councils are liable for its agents. Keep a record of all your disbursements plus interest in each amount at 8% from the date each disbursement occurred

 

to me it seems better to leave for the form four investigation (???), if the form four succeeds, won't the judge refund/correct everything?

 

10. You can Form 4 the bailiff but have your evidence ready because the Judge will ask for it. Check he has a certificate and which court issued it by calling the Bailiff public register on (their new number) 020 3334 6355.

 

will do

 

11. You say assisted theft. If you have been over-charged by a bailiff then get a finding of fact in the Small Claims Track you have a good case against the officers for Assisting.

 

assited theft is something i picked up in the forums, i.e. if a bailiff levies illegally with police present it's assisted theft?

 

12. You ask Get a Refund? Requests must be directed to the council issuing the ticket, See point 9 above, Never name a bailiff a joint defendant with the council.

 

hopefully form four will do?

 

13. Your Question: is a fine still payable if a clamp has not been applied. See Point 8 above, broadly speaking, no levy took place then no fee is due. Parking ticket (fine) itself is still payable.

 

then why did the police and bailiff say that they were in the good and i must pay?

 

14. You said It makes me sick that the government/police/local authorities allow bailiffs to operate like this! I speak from experience and it took me 18 months to clear up. The council ended up losing over £160,000 of taxpayers money over this one ticket. The bailiff company lost many local authority contracts, it later changed its company name and tried to win those contracts back. The police officers had their permanent career records affected by their ineptness and making an incorrect interpretation of the law. The council had every opportunity to reach an amicable resolve but it was their choice to slog it out in court.

 

it is the councils that are to blame. i think that the council's should not be allowed to outsource ANY debt collection as it ruins community spirit - bring about the death of the bailiff industry is what i say - i respect bankers more than bailiffs!!!!! - if the council wants my money they should think.... and hire, train (ethics, morals, social understanding) and deploy happy council workers - not dodgy shadowy oversize to solely intimidate bailiffs who operate in their name.

 

Besides, how many female bailiffs are there? It appears to one of the most sexist industries for sure! Surely the government should promote more women to bailiff - if the threat of violence (through intimidation is completely removed, more people may well pay)

 

If i had a parking ticket and a nice friendly council representative (preferably female) came to me and said, hey honey, that parking ticket, have you considered paying it? Please? I'm asking you nucely... as we're looking to build a centre for the elderly in your local community and payment of your ticket will help your community directly.....

 

the council should give a list of areas and parking tickets oustanding so any area - not person - that gets tickets but never pays is shamed - and that is it

 

That's the britain i'd prefer to live in, and i would pay, and maybe add some more for the community good...

 

If you paid the bailiff by credit card then you are laughing! Execute a chargeback under Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because, among other things, the bailiff applied undue pressure on you to enter into a credit transaction. Phone your bank for a chargeback form.

 

i chose to pay cash, but have receipt

[youcantholdmedown]

hi, something about the actual ticket... it appears to be given in a 'CPZ' - i've checked on one council website and it says that each yellow line will have a sign, others say the sign is on the entrance to the zone...

what a load of bollocks and a con!

 

a sign should always be on the yellow line yes?