Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Few tweaks as the run order was completely messed up and the main point of your defence (reconstituted agreement) pushed to the bottom of the statement.   I, XXXXXX, being the Defendant in this case will state as follows; I make this Witness Statement in support of my defence in this claim and further to my set aside application dated 1 November 2022. 1.The claimants witness statement confirms that it mostly relies on hearsay evidence as confirmed by the drafts in person in the opening paragraph. It is my understanding they must serve notice to any hearsay evidence pursuant to CPR 33.2(1)(B) (notice of intention to rely on hearsay evidence) and Section 2 (1) (A) of the Civil Evidence Act. 2.  I understand that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed and which the original creditors have already wrote off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income as confirmed in the claimants witness statement exhibit by way of the Deed of Assignment. 3. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights.  This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information).  The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party. 4.  I became aware of original Judgement following a routine credit check on or around 14th September 2020. 5. The alleged letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 was served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018, no effort was made to ascertain my correct address.  I have attached a copy of my tenancy agreement which is marked ‘Appendix 1’ and shows I was residing at a difference address as of 11 December 2018 and was therefore not at the service address at the time the proceedings were served.  I have also attached an email from my solicitors to the Claimants solicitors dated 14 July 2022 which was sent to them requesting that they disclose the trace of evidence they utilised prior to issuing the proceedings against me.  This is marked ‘Appendix 2’. The claimants solicitors did not provide me with these documents. 6. Under The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims 2017 a Debt Buyer must undertake all reasonable enquiries to ensure the correct address of a debtor, this can be as simple as a credit file search. The Claimant failed to carry out such basic checks. Subsequently all letters prior to and including ,The Pre action Protocol letter of claim dated 7 January 2020 and the claim form dated 14th February 2020 were all served to a previous address which I moved out of in 2018. 7. Upon the discovery of the Judgement debt, I made immediate contact with the Court and the Claimant Solicitors, putting them on notice that I was making investigations in relation to the Judgement debt as it was not familiar to me.  I asked them to provide me with a copy of the original loan agreement but this was not provided to me.   The correspondence to the Claimant Solicitor's is attached and marked ‘Appendix 3’ 8. On (insert date) I successfully made application to set a side the judgment. The claim proceeded to allocation, 9. The claimant failed to comply with the additional directions ordered by District Judge Davis on the 2 February 2024 'The Claim shall be automatically struck out at 4pm on 3 April 2024 unless the Claimant delivers to the Court and to the Defendant the following documents.' None of these documents were received by the court nor the defendant by that date. (insert date you did receive the documents) I then sent a Data Subject Access Request to Barclays but no agreement was provided. Details the timeline of communication between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 4’and the copies of correspondence between myself and Barclays are attached and marked ‘Appendix 5’. Remove irrelevant 10.The claimant relies upon and has exhibited a reconstituted version of the alleged agreement. It is again denied that I have ever entered into an agreement with Barclaycard on or around 2000.  It is admitted that I did hold other credit agreements with other creditors and as such should this be a debt that was assigned to Barclaycard from another brand therefore the reconstituted agreement disclosed is invalid being pre April 2007 and not legally enforceable pursuant to HHJ Judge Waksman in Carey v HSBC 2009 EWHC3417.  Details of this are attached and marked ‘Appendix 6’. The original credit agreement must be provided along with any reconstituted version on a modified credit agreement and must contain the names and address of debtor and creditor, agreement number and cancelation clause. 11. Therefore the claimant is put to strict proof to disclose a true executed legible agreement on which its claim relies upon and not mislead the court. 12. It is denied I have ever received a default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.The claimant is put to strict proof to evidence from the original creditors internal document software the trigger of said notice.  13.   As per CPR 1.4(2)(a) the court encourages parties to cooperate with each other in the conduct of proceedings in order to try and save time and costs for the parties and to also save the time and resources of the court however, despite vast attempts at mediation the claimants have been most unreasonable and have remained unwilling to mediate. 14. Until such time the claimant can comply and disclose a true executed copy of the original assigned agreement they refer to within the particulars of this claim they are not entitled while the default continues, to enforce the agreement pursuant to section 78.6 (a) of the Credit Consumer Act 1974. I believe that the facts stated in this Witness Statement are true.  I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. Signed                 ………………………………………………….. Name                  XXXX Date                     30 April 2024   Run 3 copies Court /Claimants Sol/File
    • As one of you mentioned above I've been in a mess for nearly 20 years now and I'm ready to sort my credit report out now - the main reason I got into second round of debt is my kids being unwell and the state considering them not unwell enough for extra help so despite my son being in hospital for 3 months in one year we got extra zero help and I eventually lost my job and got into debt to just so I can be تا my sons hospital bed at his time of need - my life basically fell apart and all these debts got me again 
    • Gosh mate I've woke up this morning with half the worry I had last night when going to sleep!.  I can't believe how much this forum has helped me over the years and I don't  have the words to explain the gratitude I feel towards you guys -  Now that I've slept on it I feel ready to reject this company and my plan is to make them an offer to accept payments to date as full and final settlement - I will I think write them a letter once my review is completed or maybe just send it now whilst they are reviewing explaining my kids are unwell for which reason I'm struggling to survive and if I can politely request for them to accept payment to date as a full and final - I'll mention I don't have any cash or anyone to borrow from to offer a full or even part amount of the remaining balance of the iva and therfore am unable to make a offer of payment.   If they agree to at least even put my offer to the creditors then I feel it's better I hang in there and that way I won't have to deal with any possibilities of more defaults and ccjs    Right now the only adverse effects on my credit report are the iva that is now 3 years old and 2 Ccj one coming of this July and one thus October.    But I am worried new action will begin and new defaults and Ccj may start to appear because I've paying into an agreement im under the impression the 6 year rules starts again so yes I have lost of mixed feelings about this but I'm not going to lie you guys have put some life back into my breath this week as for the last 3 years I've felt caged like an animal and this morning I feel freer I can't explain how much but certainly my soul feel lighter today thanks to yin because I'm now viewing this review totally different to I do yesterday thanks to you guys 
    • Court name UNKNOWN Case number ********** Amount N/A Confirmed by Insolvency Service Date issued May 2021 Type Voluntary Arrangement Notes If you have questions about voluntary arrangements you should speak to the Insolvency Service.     I started this in 2021. So it's been about 3 years I've been paying. 
    • Thanks @lookinforinfo@Nicky Boyi sent across the agreement earlier in this thread. No mention of financial reward to the MA. But, I wouldn't be surprised if it was done on the sly. As I said earlier, the owner of OPS is a convicted criminal, with a very shady reputation around these parts.
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 161 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Black Horse have issued a court date for possession of my car Please HELP


Guest suziedarkness
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5353 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Guest suziedarkness

Peter, I am totally out of my depth here and dont know what the hell any of it means really. I have pinched bits of other peoples defences that I thought might be relevent. Please let me know what no. you refer to and I will remove it. I phoned the court today and they told me I still have a few days to get the defence in

 

I was actually going to base my defence on the fact that they have only allowed 12 days to remedy the DN rather than 14. I haave changed my defence a bit to what is posted on here. I dont know what else to do.

 

I feel a bit let down really because all through my threads people have said, "you can do it, we can help you" and now it has come to the crunch, no-one has actually said, look this is what you need to do.

 

I send out a big thank you to all the people who have tried to help, i do appreciate it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 131
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Ok

If i were yu

i would forget about the agreement and the default notice.

Your main argument is that you quite rightly applied to send your car back under section 99 of the consumer credit act.

The creditor then deliberately stalled your attempts to fulfill your obligatins in returning the vehicle untill such a time that they could terminate the account and issue a default notice.

You had explained to them at the outset that you could no longer afford to pay and you were trying to do the right thing and have been ever since but the creditors arn't just happy with getting the car bvack they want all the money as wel.

If you stick to that which is as far as i can understand it the truth of the matter i cant see any judge with half a brain ruling against you and i think you should file just that as your deffence because i think the creditors will**** them selves.

In the current climate creditors are beenig encouraged to hep poeple who are in difficulty these bstards need showing up.

They tried the same thing on me when i did a vt some years ago it took me a while but i got there in the end and so will you.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest suziedarkness

OK Peter that makes sense.

 

What do you think the outcome will be if I go down that route and the judge rules in my favour, will they still take back the car, will I still have to pay a lot of money?

 

I know you said you got there in the end with your problem, what was the outcome for you?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

I returned the car and had them return the costs incurred to me due to their unreasonable behaviour it was onlly a couple of hundred quid but it was worth it .They tried to bill me for 3.5k because they said that firstly i was in arrears and secondly there was work that needed doing on the car.

 

You should be able to get out of it with no other costs,but therre are no garantees.

They will undoubltably say you were in arrears so they did not terminate under section 100 so you will have to show that you were not when yu made the request,they will the say that the car was not in condition to allow termination then you ask them when they inspected it how do they know what condition it was in and anyway it is your pride and jopy and it is always kept pristine..

Then if you have a cammera take some pictures of the car to show that it is in good nick. Remember if it not a new car no one will espect it to be completely blemosh free but as long as there is no obvious signs of neglect and it is in reasonable condition for a car of its age then that will do i took photos of mine from every ange and used them in court.

 

when you take the car back someone will walk arounfd the car with you problably drawing rings in chalk around imaginarry dints and bumps i annoyed the little twonk doing it,by photographing these none existant blemishes as well.

Dont forget you tried to do the right thing you are entitled to return the vehicle they are the ones in the wrong make that clear in court if it gets that far.

 

Peter

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES TO COLD CALLERS PROMISING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS

DO NOT PAY UPFRONT FEES FOR COSTLY TELEPHONE CONSULTATIONS WITH SO CALLED "EXPERTS" THEY INVARIABLY ARE NOTHING OF THE SORT

BEWARE OF QUICK FIX DEBT SOLUTIONS, IF IT LOOKS LIKE IT IS TO GOOD TO BE TRUE IT INVARIABLY IS

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest suziedarkness

Can anyone give me an idea of what to expect when I go to court? It says it is a hearing and 15 mins have been allowed. I have been reading uo on threads here and it doesnt seem like other cases here were you have to fill in an aq etc. Sorry if i appear a bit dumb but I dont really understand.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest suziedarkness

OK, just an update.

 

My hearing is next week and yesterday I received a bundle from the opposing solicitors which contained a witness statement from one of the lackies and an indexed bundle of the cca, dn, letter of termination etc. It says in the witness statement that they are prepared to suspend the hearing if it resume payments plus extra every month towards the arrears.

 

Now there is no way I am going to do this. I cannot afford it which is why i wanted vt in the first place. I would like to keep the car obviously as I have paid almost 4yrs of a 5yr agreement.

 

Now my questions is, should I submit a witness statement like they have with all the key facts or should I just go with the defense? My only defence apart from BH's ignorance to every letter I have sent them is the fact that they have not given me 14 days, they have only given me 12 and i believe they have added charges to the sum for remedy.

 

I would really appreciate some help here guys :-|

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest suziedarkness

Been to court, the judge was very nice and said he would look out for me because I was a LIP.

 

Basically because I sent in a hefty defence the case has been left open and the court will send out AQ's.

 

I now have proof, not from BH but from elsewhere that BH have added interest to the Acceptance Fee.

 

I dont really know where to go from here.

 

Any ideas?

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
Guest suziedarkness

Ok I have now received the AQ and would appreciate some advice on how to complete this, I really dont knw where to go from here.

 

Suzie

Link to post
Share on other sites

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I now have proof, not from BH but from elsewhere that BH have added interest to the Acceptance Fee.

Ah so this is very helpful as if they charged interest on the fee, then they are in a wee bit of trouble

 

they should only charge interest on credit not on charges for credit.

 

the Judge in the Walker case held that to charge interest on an item would mean it should be credit not a charge for credit and that could leave the amount of credit misstated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah so this is very helpful as if they charged interest on the fee, then they are in a wee bit of trouble

 

they should only charge interest on credit not on charges for credit.

 

the Judge in the Walker case held that to charge interest on an item would mean it should be credit not a charge for credit and that could leave the amount of credit misstated.

 

Hi pt, that is great information !

 

I am having a similar problem to suzie, could I just confirm what this means ( for suzie's benifit as well )

 

I believe if they charge interest and spread the repayments over the term on an acceptance fee it becomes credi in its own right, rather than a charge for credit. As it can't be added to the amount of credit (this is for the item being financed ) it must have its own prescribed terms as would say PPI. Have I got this right ?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Cosalt

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm looking into charges for credit, etc. on my thread at the moment, and you guessed it, it's with Blackhorse!

 

Basically, they are not allowed to charge interest on a "charge for credit". IF they do, and it is in the agreement, then the charge effectively becomes credit. This means that they will have miss-stated the "Total charge for credit".

 

Additionally, the agreement could arguably become a multiple agreement as the car would be Restricted Use Debtor-Creditor-Supplier and the acceptance fee credit would be Restricted Use Debtor-Creditor. This means both would require their own terms, so again there are prescribed terms missing.

 

Hope this helps,

H

  • Haha 1

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest suziedarkness

Thanks for that guys, I need to clarify why they cant do that for when I go back to court. Just hope its good news for me.

 

Suzie:)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

hello hello Suzie, just thought I'd pop in and see how your saga with BH is going?

 

We've just got back some nice info from then re. a secret commission that they paid to the broker that sold my OH the car & loan.

 

I'm just thinking that it might be worthwhile you asking your broker if they were paid any extra commissions outside of the "acceptance fee", or see if the court would order disclosure of this info from BH.

 

If they have paid secret commissions, it might open a few more doors for you ;)

 

H

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Guest suziedarkness

Ok, here is an update on this.

 

Car was collected by BH representative about 4 weeks ago.

 

My allocation questionnaire has been sent back and now I have had another court date sent out. This is for a Directions hearing.

 

Could someone please explain to me what exactly a directions hearing is and what I can expect?

 

Many thanks

Suzie

Link to post
Share on other sites

A Directions Hearing is where the judge will briefly review the claim and defence and then decide how best to proceed.

 

Eg, the claimant should file their evidence by xx date and the defendant must respond by xx date. The Directions will also specify the exact nature of the submissions required by the court.

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Guest suziedarkness
A The Directions will also specify the exact nature of the submissions required by the court.

 

Thanks slick but what exactly does this mean?

 

My defence and witness statement was filed before the preliminary hearing. Thats why the judge said that it needed AQ's (incidentally the judge said to me that he would look out for my interests!)

 

BH obviously thought that when they attended court initially, it would be all done and dusted. How wrong they were!

 

When I filled in my AQ I was told to tick yes to mediation, which I did and also, put a bit in there about BH's claim not being particularised? I really dont have a clue what this is. Does it mean that BH should send me a breakdown of how they have calculated their claim?

 

Suzie

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...