Liability of a minor???

[Redletter]

Please can someone advise on this.

 

My friend's 14 year old son had an accident whilst riding his "off road" motorcycle ON the road.

As such he was uninsured.

He broke his leg which has taught him an invaluable lesson, but in the process he caused substantial damage to a parked car.

He has been duly reprimanded by the police and by his mother and father and is truly sorry for his actions.

 

Thankfully the owner of the vehicle was a very understanding gentleman and accepted his and his mother's apologies.

He said that his insurance company would cover the cost and that they had told him that, as the culprit was a minor, no action would be taken to recover costs.

 

However, some months down the line my friend's son has received a letter adressed to him directly requesting payment in the region of £1500 for the total cost of the repairs to the vehicle.

 

Is this the norm?

Is a minor liable for these costs?

Should his parents who have no insurance for this as far as they are aware be liable for all costs?

They are very unlikely to be able to afford to pay for their son's stupidity.

 

Any advice on how to deal with this please?

[Last of the Mohicans]

Please can someone advise on this.

 

My friend's 14 year old son had an accident whilst riding his "off road" motorcycle ON the road.

As such he was uninsured.

He broke his leg which has taught him an invaluable lesson, but in the process he caused substantial damage to a parked car.

He has been duly reprimanded by the police and by his mother and father and is truly sorry for his actions.

 

Thankfully the owner of the vehicle was a very understanding gentleman and accepted his and his mother's apologies.

He said that his insurance company would cover the cost and that they had told him that, as the culprit was a minor, no action would be taken to recover costs.

 

However, some months down the line my friend's son has received a letter adressed to him directly requesting payment in the region of £1500 for the total cost of the repairs to the vehicle.

 

Is this the norm?

Is a minor liable for these costs?

Should his parents who have no insurance for this as far as they are aware be liable for all costs?

They are very unlikely to be able to afford to pay for their son's stupidity.

 

Any advice on how to deal with this please?

 

Which insurance company? (whispers Direct Line to self...)

[Redletter]

The insurer for the owner of the car re the motorcycle incident is Royal Sun Alliance and according to the letter head it is linked with the mobility scheme somehow I believe.

[Last of the Mohicans]

First off, a Motability vehicle is always insured Fully Comprehensive as it is a kind of "Hire Agreement" underwritten by the Govt. Thats relevant info.

OK, this is "as I understand insurance" so take this for what its worth - probably 99.999% accurate in most cases involving Fully Comp insurance:

 

When Car A hits Car B, Car A gets repaired, and the company that insured Car A puts an invoice into the Company that insured Car B for the total costs. Car B's insurance company then pays Car A's insurance company and everybody is happy, except the driver of Car B who loses his NCB and pays more in insurance next time around.

 

In your case, the insurer has found no Insurance Company to pass its costs onto, and therefore feels entitled to claim back those costs against what is - to all intents and purposes - an uninsured driver.

 

I have to tell you, I've been involved in similar with an Insurance Co, though not through being uninsured, but by tapping someones car and refusing to allow the liar to out of the blue claim for about £700s worth of damage rather than a tin of polish to wipe away the mark after we'd shaken hands and agreed there was no damage Of course, it was my word against him and his friends, so...

 

The end result is pretty nasty. You've (ie, me in my case, the lad in yours) admitted cause. In my case, you're pretty well stuffed, with Hobsons Choice of either sucking up the extra premiums from losing your NCB or going through the Courts at your own expense. If you're interested - I lost in Court

 

In your case, I think that all you can do is *try* and get a breakdown of the Insurers costs and *try* and find a way to reduce the liability. I know I'm maybe being all negative, but with a combination of Mobility, Plod and the Insurance Co against you, and the legalities of him riding on the road... well, I think its going to be a sticky wicket overall.

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi LOTM,

 

For what it is worth - surely there should be a claim from the Society of motor insurers who cover 'uninsured' drivers and one assumes riders.

 

I think that it will be difficult to pursue an underaged rider and wouls also suggest that the parents check there domestic insurance as there is often a 'legal cover' in there which most people forget about.

 

IANAL so please accept the suggestions in the spirit they are offered

 

GKTP

[palomino]

The insurer for the owner of the car re the motorcycle incident is Royal Sun Alliance and according to the letter head it is linked with the mobility scheme somehow I believe.

 

From the original post this doesn't seem to be relevant in this case. Unless I've missed something ...

[nicklea]

My friend's 14 year old son had an accident whilst riding his "off road" motorcycle ON the road.

As such he was uninsured.

 

Hi Redletter,

 

It's been a long time since I've been here but I thought that I'd just reply to this.

 

Firstly, it's not just on the road that you have to be insured. Since the year 2000 it's been a requirement under the Road Traffic Act to be insured in any public place, not just on the road:-

 

143.

Users of motor vehicles to be insured or secured against third-party risks.

— (1) Subject to the provisions of this Part of this Act—

(a)

a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road [F1 or other public place] unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies with the requirements of this Part of this Act, and

 

(b)

a person must not cause or permit any other person to use a motor vehicle on a road [F2 or other public place] unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that other person such a policy of insurance or such a security in respect of third party risks as complies with the requirements of this Part of this Act.

 

 

 

However, some months down the line my friend's son has received a letter adressed to him directly requesting payment in the region of £1500 for the total cost of the repairs to the vehicle.

 

Is this the norm?

Is a minor liable for these costs?

Should his parents who have no insurance for this as far as they are aware be liable for all costs?

They are very unlikely to be able to afford to pay for their son's stupidity.

 

I don't know how normal this is but it is certainly possible for them to do it. A child under 18 is liable under tort for damages and so can be sued. However, as a child won't be able to pay any damages, even if awarded, (unless it comes out of his pocket money!!) then there is no point in proceeding with it.

 

The liability for damages does not generally pass to the child's parents. However there is something called vicarious liability which is where one person can be held responsible for the damages cuased by another.

 

As a general rule, parents are not vicariously liable for the actions of their children - however parents may be liable in their own right through negligence if they fail to exercise reasonable parental control over their children.

 

So, the son can be sued but as he has no assets or income there is no point. It is a possibility that they might go after the parents but they would have to prove that the parents were negligent in allowing their son on the road (however, if for example he often used the bike in public places anyway - not just on the road - and the parents were aware of this and condoned it then they may well have a case against the parents)

 

Hope this helps

 

Regards

 

nicklea

[Last of the Mohicans]

Hi LOTM,

 

For what it is worth - surely there should be a claim from the Society of motor insurers who cover 'uninsured' drivers and one assumes riders.

 

I think that it will be difficult to pursue an underaged rider

 

I tend to disagree there...

 

and wouls also suggest that the parents check there domestic insurance as there is often a 'legal cover' in there which most people forget about.

 

And agree absolutely there. Good call.

[Redletter]

If the domestic insurance had been renewed with another company recently should they claim on the present or the past insurance, will it backdate to the time of the incident?

Thanks

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Sorry Red my broadband has been down.

 

I would believe that it is the original company that would be liable - after all they were the insurers at the time of the incident

 

GKTP

[Redletter]

No worries. Thank you.

[Redletter]

We spoke to the owner of the car the other day.

He said that the insurance co. had indicated they would write to ask if we could pay the bill, but the way he was talking was as if the insurance co. had the opinion that they cant make us pay and were just testing the water.

He said that it hadnt affected his no claims bonus and that he hoped they didnt bother us any more.

 

A very nice man considering what has happened!!

[Redletter]

We spoke to the owner of the car the other day.

He said that the insurance co. had indicated they would write to ask if we could pay the bill, but the way he was talking was as if the insurance co. had the opinion that they cant make us pay and were just testing the water.

He said that it hadnt affected his no claims bonus and that he hoped they didnt bother us any more.

 

A very nice man considering what has happened!!

 

Spoke too soon!

He (the son) has just received yet another letter from the insurer asking for just short of £1500 and threatening that solicitors will be instructed if a response isnt forthcoming!

 

I smell a rat though as the guy whose car was damaged said he thinks the cost of repairs was around £700!!!

[joemay]

Hi Redletter,

 

Wondering what the outcome was. I have a situation where my 9 year old was at a friends house. He went on his friends sisters bike in a residential area. He crashed into a car, which I thought was parked. But it transpires that the car was actually moving. The guy driving the car parked up on the pavement called the police then proceeded to walk his dog home. I am absolutely furious as apparently the wife was extremely abusive to my son, who I might add was in a state of shock, the police arrived before I did, (fortunately my sons friends mother was there) but they interviewed my son without one of his parents being there. By the time I arrived, which was only approximately 5-7 minutes after police arrived I was informed that my son had hit the car and caused damage, they only took witness statements from the driver & his wife, didn't take any statements from the other 4 children who had all witnessed the accident.

 

Police had spoken to me as if my son was completely in the wrong and I took there word for it (what an idiot!!), after speaking with the boys I don't believe my son is totally to blame.

 

I have received a letter from this couples insurance company claiming £1,000:eek:. I have informed the insurance company that IMHO my son's isn't totally liable - they are suggesting I make an offer - can you or anyone else advise me please - cos as things stand I don't really have a bean to offer them. And should I be offering them anything in the first place??

 

Oh sorry one other point, the police officer informed me that the couple were probably looking for their excess amount of £400, so why are the insurance company trying to get £1k out of me.

 

Sorry to have hijacked your thread Redletter.

[r&b]

hi joemay,

i have no personal experience of this type of thing but reading nickleas post 7 above i dont see how they can pursue at all other than threatening letters. is the letter addressed to you personally or your son because reading that if its to you, you have nothing at all to do with this incident unless they can prove your negligence (a bit difficult him being on a push bike i wud have thought!!)?

as i say i only going on nickleas thoughts above.

[joemay]

Thanks for responding r&b I was thinking along the same lines, but I'm a little concerned as the police officer had informed me that they were looking for the excess to be recouped and I may receive a small claims - obviously I don't feel that my son is completely responsible and we all insure our cars which should cover accidents like this. Can't recall the number of times my husbands car has been damaged, but insurance has paid out and we've had to pay the excess.

 

What I need to know is would they be able to take me to court for this, as I don't want it to go that far, and if it did would I be in a position to defend and win this, considering that there were no other 'adults' other than the driver and his wife. And the police took it that my son was at fault, my son was so shocked by the whole incident and the wifes agressive behaviour to him, he would have pleaed guilty to anything.

 

If there is anyone with any legal knowledge of this I'd be grateful for adivse.

 

Thanks

Joemay

[joemay]

Bump

[GamekeeperToPoacher]

Hi Joemay,

 

I am not legally qualified but really doubt that YOU could be held responsible for your sons actions. What if he was say 15 and got drunk, drove a car and crashed it?

 

As he is under 10 surely he is below the age of criminal responsibility.

 

Just my couple of coppers worth

 

GK

[MARTIN3030]

Think you should wait and see if anything DOES come of it-once its clear that any action is going to follow (and what action) then look to sort it.

At this stage theres nothing conclusive is there ?