Probation Period

[LTS]

Hi there

 

is it possible for my employer to terminate my contract based on my performance in my 6 month probation period on a date after my probation period has ended, i.e when I become permanent staff,

 

thanks in advance,

[kelbag]

Hi LTS, unfortunately they can do so at any time within your 1st 12 months as you have no employment rights until then.

 

However they do have to give you a statutory 1 weeks notice minimum of any dismissal.

 

Notice and notice pay : Directgov - Employment

 

This should give you a bit more info

[LTS]

Hi LTS, unfortunately they can do so at any time within your 1st 12 months as you have no employment rights until then.

 

However they do have to give you a statutory 1 weeks notice minimum of any dismissal.

 

Notice and notice pay : Directgov - Employment

 

This should give you a bit more info

 

To provide a bit more detail, I've been in my job since Nov 2007, I trained for a superviser role and was given a two months fixed contract for two months as supervisor in May '08. I then applied for my job and got it in September '08 (being told I was easily the best candidate). My manager had to put his job on the line to get me the role though and he is not the one who makes the final decision

I was given six months probation, and at the end of the 5th month, I was put on review and had weekly meetings. All the improvement points that I was informed about I have achieved and can present reports confirming this.

 

I was set to have a meeting with the people who make the final decision before that probation period ended but they never organised a meeting. The probation period is over, there are no complaints regarding me, I run and get on well with my team and there is nothing I am not saying in this post but I still feel some pressure regarding my position.

 

If my contract was now terminated would I be able to claim for unfair dismissal?

 

Cheers, LTS

[godpikachu]

well, you have more than 12 months service with the company, so you have full employment rights in that respect.

 

have you been given specific reasons for having your contract terminated?, or have they just simply said something along the lines of "you werent fitting in"?.

 

remember you can only file for tribunal within 3 months of your employment ending, so i would get yourself the ET1 form from the CAB if you are serious about pursuing this.

 

I would write to them and request full reasoning behind the decision to terminate your contract, as like you say your 121 meetings and assesments were passed with flying colours.

 

To me, it sound sliek they have just taken the "sneaky redundancy route", as in they want rid of staff but cant be bothered going through the redundancy process (even though you wouldnt be entitled to any redundancy pay anyway), instead simply getting rid of people arbitrarily and making up the flimsyest of excuses, its something we are seeing a lot of these days.

[kelbag]

LTS, you say you have been in your current role since September 2008? Did you have a contract with your employer before this time or were you employed as a temp?

 

You say you were on a fixed contract initially but dont mention if this was extended or if they gave you a new one i.e. a rolling permanent contract.

 

This reason why I say this is because I've seen a situation where the employer has said the employment commenced from the date on the rolling contract not the fixed contract.

 

As long as your contract with the firm or offer of employment is older than 12 months then they can't get rid of you without a reason and would be unfair dismissal.

[flyingdoc]

My thoughts would be that yes, they can take into account your conduct from any part of your service when making a decision regarding your post, as long as what they take into account is relevant.

 

For instance if they tell you that your appearance is below standard, and your appearance improves to required standard and remains there, then they would not be able to cite the original problem as that is no longer an issue.

 

however if your appearance improved temporarily and then returned to a substandard level then they may well be able to cite the original problem, its temporary improvement and return to previous behaviour.

 

Now you are on a permanent contract and have been employed for over 12 months they would need a valid reason to dismiss you.

[LTS]

thanks everyone,

 

just to say, they have not terminated my contract, I'm just seeking advice if it did come to that. In terms of having a contract, none of the standard staff had a contract when I started my employment in 2007 and I did not receive one until I got my fixed contract in May. When that ended I was not given another one until I had got my position in September! If in any time in this period any of us had asked for a proper contract we would probably have suffered intimidation from above.

 

You probably ask why I work there, but it actually is a wonderful place to work!

 

It really was as I thought in terms of how my rights go, but thank you for confirming it,

 

don't know how to do peoples scales!?

[kelbag]

thanks everyone,

 

just to say, they have not terminated my contract, I'm just seeking advice if it did come to that. In terms of having a contract, none of the standard staff had a contract when I started my employment in 2007 and I did not receive one until I got my fixed contract in May. When that ended I was not given another one until I had got my position in September! If in any time in this period any of us had asked for a proper contract we would probably have suffered intimidation from above.

 

You probably ask why I work there, but it actually is a wonderful place to work!

 

It really was as I thought in terms of how my rights go, but thank you for confirming it,

 

don't know how to do peoples scales!?

 

just a side thought LTS, as long as you have an offer of employment or something detailing a start date then that would be seen as the day your employment started in the absence of any formal contract.

 

And as your employer should know, it's a legal requirement for a contract of employment whether written or verbal. If something does happen it's another proverbial nail.

 

You just click on the scales to spread the love

[LTS]

Further developements yesterday 16th March (just to say I work in North West England for a health organisation).

 

I have been called into a meeting and havent been confirmed in the supervisor role. I'm now aware that I have worked at the organisation for over a year so have rights. What i'm anticipating happening is that I will be monitored for a period of 10 days in the absense of my manager (who is on annual leave) to assess my performance, I have already covered my manager for this length of time in the past. If reports come back that my performance has been more than satisfactory from my two managers and I also have the positive reports from the past few weeks, but they still attempt to demote me, or reduce my hours, do I have any legal right to appeal their decision?

 

The point about making satisfactory improvements which have not been maintained in the long term is relevant here ( although I feel unjustified), If they site these reasons but I disagree, can I appeal - (we have no access to unions at our organisation).

[kelbag]

Hi LTS, I'm no expert on tribunals but I would say you would definately have a case to appeal and also for constructive dismissal if it came to it.

 

As your probation period has ended without any comment or mention that this would be extended then as far as the law is concerned you have satisfactorily completed the period and have been automatically confirmed in the role. You don't have to have it in writing, simply carrying on with the status quo is deemed as acceptance.

 

If your bosses wished to remove you from the role then they should have done this earlier before your probation period ended.

 

As far as appealing their decision goes, then most organisations have a framework in place for this although they do act as judge jury and executioner. Your best bet is to talk to ACAS to see exactly where you stand with it. Good luck

[LTS]

I will keep people updated on how this is going. Initially, it looked like I was going to be given a week covering for my manager to prove my ability to do the job (although I've done it in the past), but this has now been bypassed. I have now been threatened with a disciplinary, I will take this through to tribunal.

 

cheers LTS

[Johnny Holmes]

Hi LTS, I'm no expert on tribunals but I would say you would definately have a case to appeal and also for constructive dismissal if it came to it.

 

As your probation period has ended without any comment or mention that this would be extended then as far as the law is concerned you have satisfactorily completed the period and have been automatically confirmed in the role.

 

The law states nothing of the sort. Probationary periods are not recognised in UK employment law.

[Johnny Holmes]

Hi LTS, unfortunately they can do so at any time within your 1st 12 months as you have no employment rights until then.

 

 

Pardon?

 

Every worker has employment rights from day one. For eg one begins to acrue statutory holiday pay from the day one begins work.

 

And dismissals can also be covered from day one as they can be deemed wrongful which have no qualification period.

 

Not to mention dismissals concerning race, gender, sexual orientation etc etc

[godpikachu]

you do not hae the right to tribunal etc until you have worked somewhere for 12 months, unless in a specific case of disability, reac or gender discrimination, none of which he is asking.

 

stop trolling.

[Johnny Holmes]

you do not hae the right to tribunal etc until you have worked somewhere for 12 months, unless in a specific case of disability, reac or gender discrimination, none of which he is asking.

 

stop trolling.

 

Not you again! What is your beef and what is it with your continuous insults?

 

For your info, I was awarded a wrongful dismissal case after just 6 weeks service.

 

I'm reporting your previous insulting post. Again.

[godpikachu]

for your information, an employer has the legal right to terminate your employment at any time in your first 12 months of employment without giving a reason.

You are ONLY elligable to ask for a tribunal if there are exceptional circumstances, such as race, gender, disability discrimination etc, none of which has been demonstrated.

 

If you got a wrongful dismissal case after only 6 weeks of work, then you must have fallen into one of the exceptional cases where it applies.

 

 

I have reported you as well as i notice you have basically been going round posting in threads where i have posted attempting to cause trouble so you can report me, this is called "trolling".

[MARTIN3030]

Reported posts acknowledged.

Can we please have a little respect for LTS-whose only wish is to get some constructive and sensible answers.

Its not fair to them nor others who are wishing to help or learn from it.Lts wants advice not to witness this.

Can I suggest that if you cannot allow that to take its course,then to leave this thread to those who can help.

[Johnny Holmes]

for your information, an employer has the legal right to terminate your employment at any time in your first 12 months of employment without giving a reason.

You are ONLY elligable to ask for a tribunal if there are exceptional circumstances, such as race, gender, disability discrimination etc, none of which has been demonstrated.

 

If you got a wrongful dismissal case after only 6 weeks of work, then you must have fallen into one of the exceptional cases where it applies.

 

 

I have reported you as well as i notice you have basically been going round posting in threads where i have posted attempting to cause trouble so you can report me, this is called "trolling".

 

Completely untrue.

 

An unlawful deduction of pay can happen at any time and an employee is able to bring an ET claim for that, they won't need 12 months service whatsoever.

 

If you post up untrue statements then you can expect to be corrected. This is not trolling, it is you posting up untruths and being corrected.:?

[Ell-enn]

As I understand it, LTS was asking about dismissal not unlawful deduction of wages, in which case GP is correct in that you cannot claim ET for unfair dismissal with less than 12 months service unless there is racial/gender/disability discrimination. Unlawful dismissal is a different matter and is usually associated with breach of contract.

[Johnny Holmes]

As I understand it, LTS was asking about dismissal not unlawful deduction of wages, in which case GP is correct in that you cannot claim ET for unfair dismissal with less than 12 months service unless there is racial/gender/disability discrimination. Unlawful dismissal is a different matter and is usually associated with breach of contract.

 

Hello

 

Sorry, I disagree.

 

LTS was indeed asking about unfair dismissal, however, a dismissal can be fair but wrongful, it can be unfair but not wrongful and it can be unfair and wrongful.

 

An unfair dismissal can also be automatic, which doesn't require any qualifying period.

 

An unlawful deduction of pay followed by a dismissal because of a complaint about that would be an automatic unfair dismissal which requires no 12 month service.

 

I simply earlier pointed out that advice that GP gave 'you do not have the right to a tribunal' is completely untrue.

[LTS]

Guys, to clarify, i have worked in the job for 17 months and am now facing a disciplinary even though I can produce reports saying my conduct has been extremely good especially in the last month of my probation period.

 

All I am doing at the moment is following the disciplinary procedure although i'm considering issuing a greivance against my employer

 

Another question - I am aware that the director who is trying to get rid of me has sent emails to my manager that my manager has said were threatening and strongly hinted that if my manager endorsed my role, he too would be threatened with the loss of his job. Can I request to see these emails and do i have legal access to them?

 

sorry, Ive never encountered this before and am in at the deep end, any assistance would be greatly appreciated

 

basically I am asking for some constructive advice as to what i should do