BB23 V HSBC Managed Loan (SAR)

[bb23]

with the copies i include, shall i use the letter from way back in June where they simply say "we cannot send you that" when i asked for the agreement to begin with? (as well as the more recent stuff)

 

i feel daunted by it all a bit now. i'll spend a LOT of time reading over things before i formulate my letter to the court.

[johnnymitch]

with the copies i include, shall i use the letter from way back in June where they simply say "we cannot send you that" when i asked for the agreement to begin with? (as well as the more recent stuff)

 

Oh ,definitely , bb23 - that is a crucial piece of evidence of their non-compliance ........

 

i feel daunted by it all a bit now. i'll spend a LOT of time reading over things before i formulate my letter to the court.

 

Just take it a step at a time , read it thoroughly and if there is anything you don't understand , come back and ask . We've all been in your position at some time bb23 , so don't let it daunt you ......... we will answer anything you need to know as best we can - and please don't think it makes you look thick - it doesn't ......

[bb23]

I have not sent the court letter yet but got a letter this morning from HSBC in response to my latest letter about the SAR telling me to let them know which branch i want to pick my data up from.

 

They said the letter i sent was not received by them until 15th April.....the fact that they received it late does not absolved them does it?

 

or do i reply and tell them my branch and wait for the data, before sending the court one?

[what_todo]

hi bh23 i did a SAR to hsbc am i got mine ok.

 

take a look at my post @ http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/180009-hsbc-sent-my-sar.html

 

 

the link below is photos of my SAR

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-bank/180009-hsbc-sent-my-sar-2.html#post2096623

[johnnymitch]

The fact that they say they didn't get your second letter until 15th april does not absolve them from having to comply with the original SAR ....

 

However, it may now be best to wait and see what they produce (or more importantly do NOT produce ) before proceeding .... if you're happy to pick the data up from a local branch just let them know - but tell them

they've got a week to produce or you'll carry on with the court action ..... the 40 days has already gone !

[what_todo]

I have not sent the court letter yet but got a letter this morning from HSBC in response to my latest letter about the SAR telling me to let them know which branch i want to pick my data up from.

 

They said the letter i sent was not received by them until 15th April.....the fact that they received it late does not absolved them does it?

 

or do i reply and tell them my branch and wait for the data, before sending the court one?

 

did you send in via recorded post?

[bb23]

surprise surprise - after waiting a further 7 days (from the date HSBC received another letter off me) i've heard NOTHING!! no letter to say the info is at my branch, no phone call to say its ready to be collected and not even an email on my internet banking to say that it's ready

 

SO all that taken into consideration i'm sending my court letter!

 

I have a folder full of photocopies (all in date order) as undeniable proof that the bank have not complied with ANY of my requests so i'm quite positive i have a decent case

 

eeeek! here we go

 

edited to add: is it worth me phoning the branch to see if it's there?

Edited May 1, 2009 by bb23
added question

[Castlebest]

I dont see any harm in just checking and adding a note into your file to record that you phoned them and what was said to whom (names etc) .

 

pete

[bb23]

HSBC sent my SAR information back - there are No Copies of my managed loan agreements in there at all

 

lots of banter between branches going "have you got it" "no this isnt us, we dont deal with managed loans, try this other branch" like that for pages and pages. apparently, no one's got a copy of my managed loan agreement!

 

so.....this makes it unenforceable, am i right?

[johnnymitch]

Hi bb23

 

I would keep pushing them until they admit they can't produce - :

 

A letter saying that they have not fully complied with your SAR in that :

 

The Managed Loan Agreement is missing .....

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/129-data-protection-act-non-compliance-template-letters-.html

 

Probably letter 2 would suit your circumstances ......

[bb23]

I have just received a letter from HSBC that says:

 

"We are unable to provide the true original signed copy of the Managed Loan Agreement as this is not held in a structured filing system i.e. in files referenced with your name of account details and is therefore outside the scope of the Data Protection act '98. We are satisfied that this procedure meets with the Information Commission's requirements"

 

"I confirm that our obligations under the Data protection Ace 1998 have been met"

 

SOOOO does this mean i can still take them to court of an unenforceable loan, or are the absolved?

 

B

[Castlebest]

Without a loan agreement the loan becomes uninforceable so its up to you how much you pay them back and how often .

 

pete

[johnnymitch]

Pete's right bb23, - so you don't really have to take them to court, just write and tell them that the loan is unenforceable because , by their own admission they cannot produce the signed copy. It doesn't mean the loan will go away, but they cannot pursue you for it ..... just pay what you reckon you can afford and when..... make them an offer , they may abandon it if they think it's not worth the hassle....

 

You could try this one , suitably amended:

 

TO |: HSBC

Dear XXXXX

ref. XXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter dated XXXXXXXX

As you have admitted that you don’t hold a valid CCA for this account then I consider that you have no evidence on which to base claim for repayment .

I am now saying, based on the letter you have provided, that this account is unenforceable.

As a gesture of goodwill on my part I will pay you £1.00 a month towards this debt as long as you agree to:-

Remove all interest charges.

Removed all late payment fees.

Stop adding interest charges.

Stop adding late payment fees.

If you have not replied to me within 14 days of the date on this letter then I will assume you accept this offer.

Yours

[bb23]

Thank you, i'm terrified of defaulting on it though. I have 6 defaults that are due to clear next year, i'd hate another one.

 

Also, £1 a month will never pay it off and what i really want is it gone.

[johnnymitch]

Does this help any , bb23? :

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies:

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

[bb23]

thank you, i don't think i could have got as far as i have without the help of the people on here.

 

I will write another letter and see what happens.

[Castlebest]

Hiya bb we are all the same, none of us could have done what we have done (and some of it is pretty amazing stuff) without the people who went before .

 

I think the best thing about this site is the change of attitude it brings about. People who have done a little reading here know the YOU HAVE 7 DAYS TO PAY!! letter is just a bullying tactic and its not hard once you know that to reply to them and tell them to bugger off .

 

Good luck with your managed loan and if you see anyone asking a question you know the answer to because you have been there, just drop them a few lines of encouragement and point them in the right direction .

 

pete

[bb23]

My latest letter went out today. To be honest, I'm not wholly optimistic. I'm sure they'll find a way to wriggle out of it but we'll see!

[bb23]

hm, reply from them saying they're looking into it {sigh}

[johnnymitch]

Hi BB ,

 

Looks like the usual 'put-off' bumph

 

However , you don't have to do anything , IMHO - I would let them sweat trying to find what seems to be , (by their own admission ,in writing ) a non-existent Loan Agreement .

 

So , I would just sit back and let them get on with it , but keep tabs on whether they're sticking to the rules , i.e. :

 

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies:

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

[bb23]

the first 2 on that list are still being applied - payment and interest have both been taken.

 

I have not heard from HSBC since 4th June and i'm wondering whether i should write Sue Hancock another letter or phone on the number she gave me, which is definitely a different format to the standard HSBC style numbers.

[johnnymitch]

Hi BB ,

 

I certainly wouldn't phone ,you'll only get rude hassle which you don't need - because they're the ones who can't produce the goods ..... the ball is in their court.........

 

If you want to write to Sue Hancock just ask what stage their 'investigations ' are at . You could also remind her again of the breach of the conditions (as per #40) and that ,as you haven't heard anything to the contrary , your 'goodwill ' offer of £1 .00 is acceptable ......... providing the conditions are adhered to , which is not the case at the moment ..... because you say they are still applying the first 2 on the list .

[bb23]

Battle is over - i received a photocopy of my agreement today - and it is signed by both me and the bank

[johnnymitch]

After saying in #36 that they couldn't provide it ? . A judge would have been a bit unchuffed with them if you'd gone to court and they produced at the 11th hour .......

 

Ah, well , at least you know they've got one bb - . If you're satisfied that it's the real McCoy , then you know how to play it from here ..... and you have the satisfaction of knowing you stood up and asked , not just accepted what you were told...... well done!

[bb23]

i need to resurrect this thread and i hope the same people are still about who helped me before.

 

In the copy of the "Fixed Term Loan Agreement" that they FINALLY sent me a photocopy of it stated early settlement fees etc for however much of a % of the term had elapsed, being in a position where my partner could now potentially clear this loan for me, i phoned the bank with the information, saying i wanted to close it for the £3,000 that it states on the agreement

 

what did they tell me

 

"a managed loan agreement does not have an early settlement fee"

 

so i look a bit closer at what i've signed and CAN NOT see the term or phrase "Managed Loan" anywhere on the agreement!

 

am i right in thinking what i signed in 2007 is actually just a standard loan.

 

it was re-done after i asked for the payments to go down a bit, beforehand it was taken out in 2004 but of course HSBC can't seem to be able to come up with that copy!

 

so i suppose now i need to investigate whether

 

a: what I've signed just holds me to a 'standard' loan agreement and whether i can pay off my loan with an early settlement

 

b: whether or not i'm still bound by managed loan terms at all and if NOT deserve compen-bloody-sation anyway for all the stress I've gone through for the last 2 years

 

OR

 

c: if they cant find the 2004 copy i can fight again to have the whole thing written off!!

 

where to start!?!?!?!