LMD75 versus Egg

[lmd75]

Hello All - First time post here after much reading so any advice would be very appreciated.

 

I have an Egg credit card which was taken out in 2000. I have a balance of around £13K and have a clean credit report with no missed payments. Due to the interest rate increase and my partner being out of work, I am now struggling to make the minimum repayments of £300+ per month and the balance is not coming down.

 

Is it worth going down the route of requesting my CCA as per the letter templates on this site and making sure that I include some ID with the request so that I dont get fobbed off for not providing a signature?

 

I plan on keep making the minimum repayments while this is being processed.

 

What am I likely to ultimately achieve if it turns out that the CCA is unenforcable?

 

If its unenforceable and I send them the follow-up template letter and cease to make the repayments, will they default me /write off to DCA?

 

Am I simply better off getting the credit card debt converted to one of their loans? Alternatively is it possible for them to freeze all interest without doing damage to my report and paying off the capital?

 

Thanks in advance.

[tendogs]

Welcome to the forum. Send in the CCA request with your £1 postal order and see what they send you. It's a lawful request and they can't punish you for it. One step at a time, and keep us informed.

[lollipop73]

I wouldn`t convert it to a loan ( the agreement of which will almost certainly be 100% perfect ), from a credit card agreement which may not be, so like tendogs says one step at a time-it is overwhelmingly worrying I know-that`s why I`m here as well.

[Mistermind]

 

I have an Egg credit card which was taken out in 2000. I have a balance of around £13K and have a clean credit report with no missed payments. Due to the interest rate increase and my partner being out of work, I am now struggling to make the minimum repayments of £300+ per month and the balance is not coming down.

 

Is it worth going down the route of requesting my CCA as per the letter templates on this site and making sure that I include some ID with the request so that I dont get fobbed off for not providing a signature?

 

I plan on keep making the minimum repayments while this is being processed.

 

What am I likely to ultimately achieve if it turns out that the CCA is unenforcable?

 

If its unenforceable and I send them the follow-up template letter and cease to make the repayments, will they default me /write off to DCA?

 

Am I simply better off getting the credit card debt converted to one of their loans? Alternatively is it possible for them to freeze all interest without doing damage to my report and paying off the capital?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

The following case is due back in court in 10 days for a final judgement on unenforceable CCA: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/egg/113999-egg-dlc-final-straits-2.html#post1986030

 

You have a spotless credit history with no payments missed, this is a major asset for landing a job or buying house. With such a good relationship with Egg, no point antagonising Egg except for demonstrable benefit.

 

Even with the poorest of the poor Egg will not freeze the interest, but it has been reported that after issuing a DN (and wrecking your credit rating for 6 years) Egg will in some cases suspend further interest. With £13K balance and probably ownership of a house, there is less chance than a snowball in hell that Egg will informally suspend interest. Your problem appears to be ond of short-term liquidity, and if converting your card balance to a loan account at a lower rate of interest, and possibly with some cash upfront for you, if the terms suit you, it is your decision. With your immaculate record you would stand a chance second to none.

 

As for skipping payments, Egg under the whip from upstairs these days escalate very quickly. In one case a DN was issued after only two monthly payments missed, and it took a courageous cardholder 30 months to persuade Egg to roll back that DN.

 

No need to do anything irreversible until the aforesaid case ruling comes through. Very best of luck LMD.

[lmd75]

Many thanks Tendogs, lollipop73 and Mistermind.

 

It's a lawful request and they can't punish you for it.

 

I read on this site that Egg flagged a persons credit report with "Money Laundering" because he requested his CCA.

 

Mistermind - Are you saying that not to bother requesting CCA until the court case comes through?

Edited March 1, 2009 by lmd75

[Mistermind]

Completely up to you LMD as to the timing, but as you pointed out Egg appears very worked up over this issue, not surprising if they feel threatened by the potential loss of £13K in one fell swoop. Why wake up a sleeping rotweiler unless you have reason to?

 

On the loan front, Egg T&C provides for a 3-month payments holiday, once only during the lifetime of a loan, to allow for unavoidable hard times. I availed myself of this holiday. No hassle, one phone call and politely concluded. No reason why this holiday cannot be taken even from the second month of the new loan -- all provide for in the T&C.

[gizmo111]

As you have a perfect credit rating try and get a 0% credit card to transfer the balance. Virgin are doing one at the moment 15 months interest free, and after the first month repayments are £25 per month. This is the same with all the MBNA cards. It is unlikely you would get a £13k limit on one card - the next generous one seems to be Tesco cards. When is your anniversary offer from Egg due?

[lmd75]

Not sure when the aniversary offer is due. I have an Egg cashback card and so far I have a whopping £1.20 cashback due.

 

I applied for a payment holiday with my Halifax mortgage when I became unemployed and I was told that payment holidays are not for that purpose as I had no income (and it would be iresponsable lending as my payments would increase). Anyway after getting back in employment my Mrs then went on maternitiy leave with no pay so I applied again and was told that my house is now worth £10K less due to the recession which left me with no equity. Therefore they could not give me a payment holiday in this case.

 

I was led to beleive that the process is as follows:

 

1. Keep making payments while CCA is being requested so that you dont get bomdarded with phone calls /nasty letters.

 

2. When CCA arrives, verify that its unenforceable and send letter stating that account is in dispute.

 

3. Stop making payments until they can come up with a legit CCA

 

I thought at this point that they cannot mark your credit report or hassle you. Are they likely to disregard your letters and simply progress your account to recovery department and issue a default?

 

What is the next step? I thought that it cannot go to court as they have no legal cca - Am I missing something?

Edited March 1, 2009 by lmd75

[basa48]

I was led to beleive that the process is as follows:

 

1. Keep making payments while CCA is being requested so that you dont get bomdarded with phone calls /nasty letters.

 

2. When CCA arrives, verify that its unenforceable and send letter stating that account is in dispute.

 

3. Stop making payments until they can come up with a legit CCA

 

I thought at this point that they cannot mark your credit report or hassle you. Are they likely to disregard your letters and simply progress your account to recovery department and issue a default?

 

What is the next step? I thought that it cannot go to court as they have no legal cca - Am I missing something?

 

That is exactly what I understand is the procedure. (And is what I propose to do these next few weeks )

 

They are not supposed to be allowed to default you or send it to a DCA, but I'm told they sometimes/often? do if only out of pure bloody mindedness

 

It would be nice to get a few more opinions.

[lmd75]

Mrs is off to Post Office to buy postal order. I notice lots of people are getting fobbed off by not signing the CCA request letter. In order to avoid their delaying tactics, is it ok to sign letter with my intials and not my usual signature to speed things up. Is this a bad idea?

[tendogs]

You could use one of the signature fonts like "Rage"

[lmd75]

You could use one of the signature fonts like "Rage"

 

Has this personally worked for you? Would a lender deliberately cut and paste a provided signature into an CCA?

[tendogs]

I have never signed a CCA request and I've not been asked to provide one as a consequence, I have been asked to provide a signature for data subject access request and I photocopy my ID page from my passport and that seems to work. There is a feeling on the forum that photoshop has/can be used to lift a signature but I don't know of a confirmed case (maybe someone will put me right on that). I have had signature appear upon a credit agreement (not mine but purporting to be that of a company representative) which was designed to falsify the document (I'm pursuing this with the help of my MP) so I suppose that it can happen and hey, why take the risk.

[lmd75]

I posted my CCA request letter (with SignGuard) on 24 August and received a copy of my Credit Agreement yesterday. Very impressed with Egg's speedy response!

 

They sent me a poor quality photocopied 'shrunk-down' 2-page agreement which DOES have my genuine signature and date (signed back in 2001).

 

They also sent me a perfect quality copy of a 7-page document entitled 'Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 - Conditions'.

 

This just looks like a copy of their current terms and conditions which are not related to the original CCA.

 

I have scanned in the 2-page original documents that were signed by me back in 2001. They are scanned in at a good 300dpi and you can just make out the wording. The copy they sent me is extremely poor and I will not be able to get a better scan unless I delay things further and request a better copy. I would rather progress things on!

 

Please can someone take a look at these documents and advise whether these are enforceable or not and next best cause of action to take.

 

Many thanks.

 

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5378/eggcreditagreementpage2.jpg

 

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5715/eggcreditagreementpage3.jpg

 

Edited September 6, 2009 by lmd75

[lmd75]

Is this agreement unenforceable? I was expecting something back without a signature but I did actually sign the agreement. Is it unenforcable due to the 'Credit limit' wording or lack of? Can anyone point me to a document so that I can check for unenforceability /next cause of action to take?

 

Many thanks.

Edited September 8, 2009 by lmd75

[lollipop73]

Have a read through this thread

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/188093-egg-credit-agreements-what-new-post.html

[lmd75]

Thanks Lollipop73 - I will read through that thread now..

[lmd75]

After many hours of reading, I understand that this is a typical Egg unenforceable agreement based on missing prescribed terms such as 'Credit Limit'. Therefore I plan on sending this letter out via Special Delivery immedietelly.

Is this good to go?

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Reference: Egg Card xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx - In Dispute

 

Please note: I do not acknowledge any debt to your company.

 

Thank you for your recent letter regarding my request for an original copy of the credit agreement.

 

Unfortunately the document you have provided as a copy of an alleged agreement does not comply with the requirements of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 60(2) and Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 Schedule 1 in that not all the ‘prescribed terms’ are present.

 

1. The term ‘Limit’, ‘Approved Limit’ and ‘Individual Limit’ are not prescribed terms, contrary to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 Schedule 1 Para 8 as the meaning of such terms cannot be exactly ascertained by the debtor.

 

2. There should be a list of any ‘charges on default’ payable under the agreement to the creditor upon failure by the debtor or a relative of his to do or refrain from doing anything which he is require to do or refrain from doing, as the case may be, contrary to the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 Schedule 1 Para 22.

 

3. Finally I notice some information relating to the Egg Card Agreement lies within your terms and conditions, which is a separate document to the Egg Card Agreement. I would like to draw your attention to Regulation 2 (4) Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI1983/1553) which requires that the statutory information set out within Para 3-19 of schedule 1 and 2 SI1983/1553 should be shown as a whole and not interspersed with other information if the agreement is to be properly executed and compliant with section 61 Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

It is for these reasons that I DISPUTE the alleged agreement.

 

The lack of a compliant agreement is a very clear dispute and as such your company is in DEFAULT of the agreement. I trust that you are aware of the limitations placed upon you now that the account has been formally disputed. Consequently you are reminded that the following applies in relation to this alleged agreement.

 

You: * are not entitled, while the dispute continues, to enforce the agreement.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer you any payment.

* may not add further charges or interest to the account.

* may not pass the account to a third party.

* may not register any information is respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

Please note: you may also consider this letter as statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act 1998 to cease processing, with immediate effect, any data in relation to this account, both within your own internal records and records with any third party, which may cause substantial damage or substantial distress to me or to another.

 

Should you not comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasons behind continuing to process my data. Should you not respond within 21 days I expect that this means you agree to cease processing all such data. Pursuant to the above, I reserve the right to report your actions to any relevant regulatory authorities I see fit.

 

You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with you intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. In the absence of a signed compliant agreement, I would invite you to consider reducing any alleged debt to £0 and enter a ‘full and final settlement’ as discharged on the alleged account and with any third parties. If you do not respond within 14 days I will assume you have accepted these terms in full and I will consider this matter closed.

 

I would ask you to note that I will not enter into any communication regarding this matter except in writing by post. Repeated attempts to contact me by telephone will be considered harassment and a formal complaint will be made to the relevant authorities. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

Yours faithfully,

LMD75

[lollipop73]

Spot on.

 

It is heavy work going through that thread, my head was mush when I finished it, and had to go through it again lol.

 

Well done on getting through it.

[lmd75]

Thanks Lollipop73 - Its all ready to go via RM Special Delivery tomorrow morning.

Edited September 16, 2009 by lmd75

[lmd75]

Its been 7 weeks and I have not received anything in the post from them reference the 'account in dispute'.

 

- All I have had is the usual 'I'm sorry - we have received your complaint'

- missed payment letters

- 'you must setup a direct debit' warnings

 

They have sent a few online secure messages but have not read them as I stated that I would only communicate in writing by post.

 

What is my next cause of action? What do they normally do?

[poundhound1808]

I'm a bit ahead of you in the process (poundhound v. Egg), and got a Default Notice literally days after missing the 3rd consecutive payment, followed by a Termination notice, about a week after the 'Rectify by' date on the DN.

 

 

When you get the DN, check the arrears amount for charges, bit more info here: Default Notice: Arrears figure includes charges - does this alone make it invalid?

 

I'd check those online messages, and take screenshots of them - mine don't look very interesting but you never know; plus I'm guessing Egg will cut off the online access at some point. Also take screenshots of all statements you can still access now!

Edited November 3, 2009 by poundhound1808

[lollipop73]

Can't get at that link poundhound.

[lmd75]

Thanks poundhound - Just checked secure messages and nothing interesting there (just cancelled DD / account overdue messages).

 

Will print off all statements as advised.

[poundhound1808]

Can't get at that link poundhound.

 

Strange. This one should work.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/225235-default-notice-arrears-figure.html