D/judge Made Wrong Decison What Now??

[pedross]

Good luck MDAW

 

I would not get too many new thoughts into your head because as docman said you may not get chance to mention many. Just stay calm and try and get the judge to listen to the points that docman stated above.

 

The actual wording used is very good and very powerful. If by chance you are asked to clarify anything further then that is when you would need any back up information handy.

[summerbreeze]

Hi MDAW .. I know how apprehensive you must be feeling right now ..its not nice is it?

BUT we are brave and we know we are strong just to have got this far.

 

My advice is ...get everything ready and in order

get your bag ready and get your clothes ready. make sure you know where everything is.

read your notes a couple of times ...practise in your head what you want to say ..tell yourself not to get rattled and remember what Docman advises .

If the DJ buts in just stop and you can apply to the Circuit Judge.

 

You will be fine

Edited January 27, 2010 by summerbreeze

[mandyjayne]

Hi westie..

you really are gettin the best help possible now!

 

Very best of luck coming from me and i wish i could go with you tomorrow:( you are rising to the challange with ease and with Dad and Doc behind you your in good hands.

 

I will be waiting for your post tomorrow...GOOD LUCK my friend:D

 

love as always MJ:)

[humbleman]

Mdaw

 

All The Best

[Mydogsawestie]

My advice is ...get everything ready and in order

get your bag ready and get your clothes ready. make sure you know where everything is.

You will be fine

Thanks I forgot the obvious (honest!!!) my poor westie did not get his walk last night either with everything going on in my head right now, will be glad when things get back to normal (if ever!)

 

Thanks for your wishes everyone....I will post late on tomorrow afternoon with how I got on...but of course stay peeled tonight in the meantime to welcome any other comments/information with pleasure.

[dad]

MDAW,

 

Sorry, I had overlooked that you are going to a formal handing down of a judgment. I agree with Docmans approach, particularly:

 

the judge may interrupt at this point and deny you permission to appeal. If he does, do not argue.

 

The only thing I would add is to ask formally for the N460 as this a key document for any appeal. eg:

 

" I would be grateful if I could have the form N460 as soon as possible. I would draw your attention to paragraph 7.6.1 of the civil bench book where it says that an N460 should be handed to the prospective appellant at the end of the hearing."

 

Link here: http://www.jsboard.co.uk/publications/pdfs/7_appeals.pdf

 

HTH

 

Dad

[Mydogsawestie]

Thanks dad.....for the nicely put add on.

[Gazza112]

MDAW

 

 

Good luck today, will be thinking of you/

 

Gaz

[sunflower99]

Hi MDAW

Good luck ! Like Gaz i will be thinking of you too x

[cymruambyth]

Good luck

[humbleman]

MDAW,

 

 

" I would be grateful if I could have the form N460 as soon as possible. I would draw your attention to paragraph 7.6.1 of the civil bench book where it says that an N460 should be handed to the prospective appellant at the end of the hearing."

 

Link here: http://www.jsboard.co.uk/publications/pdfs/7_appeals.pdf

 

HTH

 

Dad

 

took me 10 days to get mine

[cymruambyth]

2 weeks for mine to arrive

[Mydogsawestie]

Well unlucky for me I got the same "FAMILY" Djudge today to hand me down my judgement. From that, it will be no surprise to know that he used his judiciary discretion and refused me permission to appeal.

 

Restons in there delight had attended too. It started with the Judge saying why we were there today & listening to both sides at the court hearing he was handing down his judgement, I had got that copy had I etc etc.

 

Then he went on to the costs that Restons had put forward at that hearing and what figure the judgement would arrive at. I piped up at that point that with regards to the costs (as he was tallying them up) I had tried everything to negotiate with them before all this came to court so if the costs could not be awarded...he went on discussing the fees listed with Restons then to the hourly rates, work involved that were listed.

 

When that moment of silence came I then started my sentence that Docman had suggested in wanting to apply for permission to appeal....(I wasnt interrupted) so made sure I referred to what acts had not been applied to CCA1974 under S61 etc. Failure to comply with the consumer credit (Enforcement,Default & Termination notices) regulations 1983. How no valid Default Notice with the prescribed period allowed to rectify any breach was ever presented accurately and in line with the CCA197. That it was a legal requirement to allow me no less than 14 days from receipt of service to remedy any breach as detailed in schedule 2 of the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1983.

 

I then continued on regarding the Interpretation Act 1978 section 7 Practice Service of Documents and its statement here Tuesday would have been the earliest it could have been served to me had it been 1st class & 2nd class would have been the Thursday ...also if CPR6.26 had been incorrectly applied in this instance? 6.26 makes it 2 Business days & the DN posted on the Friday would have still been the Tuesday NOT the Monday as 6.2b Business day means any day except Sat, Sun a bank hol etc. I was still putting them to strict proof.

 

I then concluded with what DAD had suggested in being grateful if I could have the form N460 etc

 

Restons had been scribbling away during all this but then came in to remind the judge how (cant remember if they said the words contest the appeal) as what outcome had already been decided from the judges points raised had already been based on that information already (or something to that effect!!).

 

Thats when my skeleton bits came in handy as I was then able to point to each of the following.:-

judgement comment no's 15, referring to me receiving a copy of "agreement". I clarified to them what my Amended defence no.21 had stated here & not referred to it as an agreement, it was a "Priority Request Form"

Judgement No. 17 There IS no signature on this priority request form yet it states here it does?

and Judgement 23 does not comply as per Legislation (Consumer credit Act 1974) (stayed clear of the words S78 as Docman said)

AND Judgement no 20/21 The DN DID NOT give me 2 business days, The DN was dated 9Jan (FRI) How can this be delivered on Monday 12th, Monday is not the 2nd buisness day after posting Tuesday would have been.

 

I came across quite calmly but firm to be honest as I wanted to get it all down for the record, so stood my ground.

 

The judge having listened then concluded in his decision he was not going to grant the appeal. I asked could I have the form anyway, he did not have one to hand but he would get one from his usher if I waited outside. What he has put on is hard to decipher though unless your good at joined up reading at its worst!!!

 

The only thing I did get in my favour was having the costs that Restons had summitted almost halfed, however I don’t think quite honestly this was down to me only for the fact the woman from Restons could not clarify fully as to what the costings stated had involved.

 

So that’s my time in court today….falling on this Family Djudge twice now who either hasn’t the knowledge or care to be bothered with it IMO.

 

NEXT..........

Edited January 28, 2010 by Mydogsawestie

[pedross]

I would not consider this a failure. You put your points over calmly but the decision was already made.

 

You managed to put your points across which will no doubt be remembered by the judge although it did not help you today.

 

You did well.

 

Pedross

[pabrmu]

Unlucky MDAW,

You seemed to be having a dialogue with the deaf.

Was it not possible to ask why he apparently changed his mind and why had it taken so long for the judgement to be delivered.This in itself seems an abuse of process.

Whats next?

Pat

[seriously fed up]

I would agree with Pedross - you were never going to change the decision, and in particular I dont think asking him why he seemed to have changed his mind in between the previous hearing and handing down the judgement would have profited you much. I mean its hardly likely he is going to admit to a mistake in open court? On the other hand, both these things are ammunition for the appeal.

At least Reston's got their costs well clipped.

So that's you done part 1 - got through today which was never going to go your way. What you need to focus on now is getting the appeal right, which is particularly important as you have a good case.

Keep your chin up!

[humbleman]

I really don't know where the whole process of courts is being directed from. an application for SJ should either be either be dismissed or granted without too much deliberation, if it takes someone time outside that allocated on the day then there is clearly a triable issue and should be dismissed.

[Mydogsawestie]

Thanks guys.....It beggars belief in what was my point in saying anything at all ....I missed more things too to be honest like the S69 bit in the POC, I suppose I could have gone on + on + on but like Pedross & SFU said, his mind was already made up!!! Which Restons was well chuffed by.

 

Next......I would appreciate any next fountains of knowledge to assist me with the appeal procedures.....SFU what you said about Maladministration as Humbleman just pointed out shouldnt this be something to add to the pot too?

[humbleman]

 

Next......I would appreciate any next fountains of knowledge to assist me with the appeal procedures.....SFU what you said about Maladministration as Humbleman just pointed out shouldnt this be something to add to the pot too?

 

For an appeal you will need the judgment transcript. was he a DJ if so then you make the appeal at the same court.

[humbleman]

here are some appeal threads

 

ok my link not working but search for

 

OH v BLS/LTSB

 

[/url]BB v Cabot Appeal

[humbleman]

another appeal

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/191784-shakespeare62-nastybank-10.html#post2555534

[frettful38]

Thanks guys.....It beggars belief in what was my point in saying anything at all ....I missed more things too to be honest like the S69 bit in the POC, I suppose I could have gone on + on + on but like Pedross & SFU said, his mind was already made up!!! Which Restons was well chuffed by.

 

Next......I would appreciate any next fountains of knowledge to assist me with the appeal procedures.....SFU what you said about Maladministration as Humbleman just pointed out shouldnt this be something to add to the pot too?

 

 

Bad luck MDAW, but don't give up. We all have to stumble before we can learn to walk, and I am sure that you have learned a many a thing during all this. To get justice these days you have to fight, keep a strong mind and be determined and you will get there in the end.

The problem is that we know what we want, it's just finding the right way to get it, and as we are no experts in the areas of laws and are up against these big boys with the gift of the gab leaves us sometimes in quite a difficult position when we are in court.

All is not lost and hopefully someone with more knowledge will pull you out of this hole soon. I am not giving up on my case even though its been going on since time began but I know that I will get there in the end, and I wish you the best and good luck in your battle against these critters:)

[pabrmu]

Hi all,

excuse my thickness, but can someone explain that if the DJ has not given permission to appeal, how comw MDAW can appeal.

Am I missing something?

Pat

[Mydogsawestie]

Thanks for your kind words Fretful38 & Humbleman, thanks for the links, along with your own link threads I will spend this coming weekend fathoming out my next course of uphill actions!!

[dad]

Hi all,

excuse my thickness, but can someone explain that if the DJ has not given permission to appeal, how comw MDAW can appeal.

Am I missing something?

Pat

 

After the trial judge has refused permission, you are allowed to make a second application for permission to the appeal court, in this case the local circuit judge. This request will first be considered by the judge alone just reading the papers. If permission to appeal is again refused you have a further 7 days to request a hearing, where you can ask for permission to appeal in person. If permission to appeal is refused at this stage its game over.