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    • I understand confusion with this thread.  I tried to keep threads separate because there have been so many angles.    But a team member merged them all.  This is why it's hard to keep track. This forum exists to help little people fight injustice - however big or small.  Im here to try get a decent resolution. Not to give in to the ' big boys'. My "matter' became complicated 'matters' simply because a lender refused to sell a property. What can I say?  I'll try in a nutshell to give an overview: There's a long lease property. I originally bought it short lease with a s.146 on it from original freeholder.  I had no concerns. So lender should have been able to sell a well-maintained lovely long lease property.  The property was great. The issue is not the property.  Economy, sdlt increases, elections, brexit, covid, interest hikes etc didn't help.  The issue is simple - the lender wanted to keep it.    Before repo I offered to clear my loan.  I was a bit short and lender refused.  They said (recorded) they thought the property was worth much more and they were happy to keep accruing interest (in their benefit) until it reached a point where they felt they could repo and still easily quickly sell to get their £s back.  This was a mistake.  The market was (and is) tough.   2y later the lender ceo bid the same sum to buy the property for himself. He'd rejected higher offers in the intervening period whilst accruing interest. I had the property under offer to a fantastic niche buyer but lender rushed to repo and buyer got spooked and walked.  It had taken a long time to find such a lucrative buyer.  A sale which would have resulted in £s and another asset for me. Post repo lender had 1 offer immediately.  But dragged out the process for >1y - allegedly trying to get other offers. But disclosure shows there was only one valid buyer. Lender appointed receiver (after 4 months) - simply to try acquire the freehold.  He used his powers as receiver to use me, as leaseholder, to serve notice on freeholders.  Legally that failed. Meanwhile lender failed to secure property - and squatters got in (3 times).  And they failed to maintain it.  So freeholders served a dilapidations notice (external) - on me as leaseholder (cc-ed to lender).   (That's how it works legally) I don't own the freehold.  But I am a trustee and have to do right by the freeholders.  This is where matters got/ get complicated.  And probably lose most caggers.   Lawyers got involved for the freeholders to firstly void the receiver enfranchisement notice. Secondly, to serve the dilapidations notice.  The lack of maintenance was in breach of lease and had to be served to protect fh asset. The lender did no repairs. They said a buyer would undertake them. Which was probably correct. If they had sold. After 1y lender finally agreed to sell to the 1st offeror and contracts went with lawyers.  Within 1 month lender reneged.  Lender tried to suggest buyer walked. Evidence shows he/ his lawyers continued trying to exchange (cash) for 4 months.  Evidence shows lender and receiver strategy had been to renege and for ceo to take control.   I still think that's their plan. Lender then stupidly chose to pretty much bulldoze the property.  Other stuff was going on in the background. After repo I was in touch by phone and email and lender knew post got to me.   Despite this, after about 10 months (before and then during covid), they deliberately sent SDs and eventually a B petition to an incorrect address and an obscure small court.  They never served me properly.  (In hindsight I understand they hoped to get a backdoor B - so they could keep the property that way.)  Eventually the random court told them to email me by way of service.  At this point their ruse to make me B failed.  I got a lawyer (friend paid). The B petition was struck out. They’d failed to include the property as an asset. They were in breach of insolvency rules. Simultaneously the receiver again appointed lawyers to act on my behalf as leaseholder. This time to serve notice on the freeholders for a lease extension.  He had hoped to try and vary the strict lease. Evidence shows the already long length of lease wasn't an issue.  The lender obviously hoped to get round their lack of permission to do works (which they were already doing) by hoping to remove the strict clauses that prevent leaseholder doing alterations.   The extension created a new legal angle for me to deal with.  I had to act as trustee for freeholders against me as leaseholder/ the receiver.  Inconsistencies and incompetence by receiver lawyers dragged this out 3y.  It still isn't properly resolved.  Meanwhile - going back to the the works the lender undertook. The works were consciously in breach of lease.  The lender hadn't remedied the breaches listed in the dilapidations notice.  They destroyed the property.  The trustees compiled all evidence.  The freeholders lawyers then served a forfeiture notice. This notice started a different legal battle. I was acting for the freeholders against what the lender had done on my behalf as leaseholder.  This legal battle took 3y to resolve. The simple exit would have been for lender to sell. A simple agreement to remedy the breaches and recompense the freeholders in compensation - and there's have been clean title to sell.  That option was proposed to them.   This happened by way of mediation for all parties 2y ago.  A resolution option was put forward and in principle agreed.  But immediately after the lender lawyers failed to engage.  A hard lesson to learn - mediation cannot be referred to in court. It's considered w/o prejudice. The steps they took have made no difference to their ability to sell the property.  Almost 3y since they finished works they still haven't sold. ** ** I followed up some leads myself.  A qualified cash buyer offered me a substantial sum.  The lender and receiver both refused it.   I found another offer in disclosure.  6 months later someone had apparently offered a substantial sum via an agent.  The receiver again rejected it.  The problem of course was that the agent had inflated the market price to get the business. But no-one was or is ever going to offer their list price.  Yet the receiver wanted/wants to hold out for the list price.  Which means 1y later not only has it not sold - disclosure shows few viewings and zero interest.  It's transparently over-priced.  And tarnished. For those asking why I don't give up - I couldn't/ can't.  Firstly I have fiduciary duties as a trustee. Secondly, legal advice indicates I (as leaseholder) could succeed with a large compensation claim v the lender.  Also - I started a claim v my old lawyer and the firm immediately reimbursed some £s. That was encouraging.  And a sign to continue.  So I'm going for compensation.  I had finance in place (via friend) to do a deal and take the property back off the lender - and that lawyer messed up bad.   He should have done a deal.  Instead further years have been wasted.   Maybe I only get back my lost savings - but that will be a result.   If I can add some kind of complaint/ claim v the receiver's conscious impropriety I will do so.   I have been left with nothing - so fighting for something is worth it. The lender wants to talk re a form of settlement.  Similar to my proposal 2y ago.  I have a pretty clear idea of what that means to me.  This is exactly why I do not give up.  And why I continue to ask for snippets of advice/ pointers on cag.  
    • It was all my own work based on my previous emails to P2G which Bank has seen.
    • I was referring to #415 where you wrote "I was forced to try to sell - and couldn't." . And nearer the start in #79 .. "I couldn't sell.  I had an incredibly valuable asset. Huge equity.  But the interest accrued / the property market suffered and I couldn't find a buyer even at a level just to clear the debt." In #194 you said you'd tried to sell for four years.  The reason for these points is that a lot of the claims against for example your surveyor, solicitor, broker, the lender and now the receiver are mainly founded in a belief that they should have been able to do something but did not. Things that might seem self evident to you but not necessarily to others. Pressing these claims may well need a bit more hard evidence, rather than an appeal to common sense. Can you show evidence of similar properties, with similar freehold issues, selling readily? And solid reasons why the lender should have been able to sell when you couldn't.
    • You can use a family's address.   The only caveat is for the final hearing you'd need to be there in person   HOWEVER i'd expect them to pay if its only £200 because costs of attending will be higher than that
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Natwest Bank "Default Notice" on overdraft. HELP


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Hi guys,

 

Hoping you can offer some advice. My situation relates to an overdraft account I held with Natwest in 2004-2005. It went into Default in 2005 (as stated in my credit report from Experian).

 

Background

The overdraft was for £900. I exceeded my overdraft limit by £100, taking the amount owed to £1000.

I had made no payments to balance this and return into my overdraft limit (within Natwest’s time period). My account was subsequently put in default. Excuse my short memory, but I do not remember getting any letters from the bank stating that my account was in default, or that my account was being passed on.

However Natwest passed this onto to Moorcroft, I have had some hassle from Moorcroft for payment in full via phone calls but I have refused to talk to them. I did however arrange a direct debit fee on my own terms for £20 per month some time ago. I have now £440 outstanding.

I called Moorcroft and offered to pay off the remaining balance if the default notice were removed, they told me that they couldn’t do this, but did offer a settlement at a reduced value of £310 which I turned down as the default notice is more important than a reduced settlement fee.

While setting up my direct debit I asked whether Moorcroft had a copy of my credit agreement from Natwest, to which the representative replied “no”. Are Moorcroft required to have the original credit agreement or any type of information?

 

What to DO!!

Where should I start? What letters should I use?

Do I contact Natwest or deal with Moorcroft?

Would I be correct to request a CCA from Natwest and check their paperwork?

Or would I be better referring to Sections 10 and 12 of The Data Protection Act 1998 as my account is now closed?

 

Sorry about all the questions but I have a lot in my head :confused:

 

I have read various threads and template letters on Default Notice Removal but I’m not sure whether these apply to my case, and if so which one should I use. Ideally I would be happy if I didn’t have to repay the debt, but I would very much settle for having the Default Notice removed from my credit report.

 

Would appreciate any input anyone has. (If u need anymore info please please let me know). Thanks in advance…

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Hi monday2005 and welcome to CAG, your doing the right thing by refusing to talk to Moorcroft on the phone. Any correspondence by letter should be to Moorcroft. If as they say they do not have the CCA, then it is there responsibility to ask for it from Natwest, if Moorcroft does not provide you with a valid copy of the CCA after 12+2 working days, then they are in default and you can stop paying them until they can produce CCA if it exists. I dont know what letter you sent so i will supply the link below, send letter N with £1.00 postal order and dont sign the letter. I dont have experience of removing default notices, others on CAG have and will advise you.:).

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/generel-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

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Would I be correct to request a CCA from Natwest and check their paperwork?
Overdrafts have Part V (Form and Content) exemption from the Act. So the copy of the agreement would simply be a letter from the bank.

 

Are there any bank charges on your overdraft? Normally in your situation their would be.

 

If you want all the information the bank hold on you (including a default notice) then you will need to send them a SAR. The SAR would go to the bank rather than Moorcroft.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Thanks for the quick reply guys.

 

To answer your Question Rory, i'm quite sure (but not certain) that i haven't had any bank charges on this account.

 

In your opinion would i be best sending an SAR to Natwest and then proceeding from there? I'll look for the template now and send it today.

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If the account has been passed to a DCA in 99.9% of cases charges will have been added at some point so I would send a SAR to Natwest. A template is here

 

You'll need to adapt the template a bit as you also want a copy of any default notice. It's likely that the bank won't be able to supply this as they generally don't keep copies of default notices even though they are supposed to.

 

Send the SAR recorded delivery.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Hi again, a friend of mine has advised me that because my account was a "student overdraft account" there was no signed credit agreement.

 

Is this true? what does this change? should i still send a SAR to the Natwest bank?

 

Rory you mention that i should request a copy of any default notice. My question is, If the bank dont have a copy of this, could they not just send me a standard default notice with my details on it? Would anyone know any different?

And also if it happens that the bank do not have a copy of the default notice, what does this mean??

 

I hope i'm being clear enough here.

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Hi again, a friend of mine has advised me that because my account was a "student overdraft account" there was no signed credit agreement.
I already told you that.

 

Overdrafts have Part V (Form and Content) exemption from the Act. So the copy of the agreement would simply be a letter from the bank.

 

should i still send a Subject Access Request to the NatWest bank?
Yes. This will identify any charges on the account and whether you were defaulted correctly. If they can only send you a template then they would at the very least need to demonstrate that one was sent to you and that the reconstructed default notice is not purely conjecture.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi guys, I received a letter reply from NatWest after sending them the following letter. Please read and advise if you can. Thanks!!

 

My Letter dated 18 February 2009.

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

In reference to:

Account number: xxxxxxxxx

Sort code: xxxx

 

Upon carrying out an audit on my Credit File I have found out that Natwest have placed a Default on my file in 31/01/2008, which is said to have defaulted at that date.

I received no Default Notice regarding this account and I am now requesting a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice your company issued me with the date.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). Your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account. I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number 1587 716732.

2. You must supply me with a signed true and certified copy of the original default notice

3. Any deed of assignment if the debt was sold on

 

I would request that this data is provided to me within the next 28 days, if you are unable to provide this data then I must insist that the default is removed from my files as unsubstantiated.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully

----------------------------------------------------

NatWest reply dated 11 March 2009.

 

Dear Sir

 

Thank you for your letter dated February 18 2009.

 

RE xxxxxxxxx

 

I understand that you have made a request for information relating to your account under the consumer credit act 1974, and that you have asked for a copy of the signed agreement for this facility.

 

Under section 78 of the Act, on receipt of a written requested, the bank is obliged to provide:

 

  • A copy of a signed agreement (if any)
  • Any other documents referred to in the agreement
  • A note of the state of account (i.e. the balance, details of interest and charges outstanding and the applicable interest rate) signed by a representative of the bank.

It is important to point out that the bank does not require customers to sign an agreement under the consumer credit act in order for an overdraft facility to be applied to their account. Therefore, a copy of the signed agreement is not available, and is not required to be provided to you under the terms of section 78.

 

All borrowing facilities are agreed in accordance with the terms and conditions of your account, and the overdraft facilities are finalised by the way of confirmation letter.

 

I can confirm that as at today’s date, the following is relevant to your account.

 

Overdraft limit £0.00

Current balance £764.00dr

 

Fee’s £0.00

Debit interest £0.00

 

I trust this letter now clarifies matters, however, should you require any further information, please do not hesitate to contact the bank again.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Recovery Manager

 

 

Can anyone please advise where I go from here? It seems that NatWest have not been able to satisfy my request for a copy of the default notice.

 

Should I reply to this letter now and if so is there maybe a letter template that I could use in response??

If not should I wait until the 28 days since my letter has passed and then send a response, and again if so is there a template I should use??

 

Background

 

For anyone who doesn’t know the background, this was a student account I opened with Natwest in 11/11/05, which defaulted in 31/01/08 due to inactivity (so I was told when I made an enquiry at the bank). I do not recall receiving a default notice letter from Natwest at any stage, the first instance I knew was when representatives from Moorcroft began hounding me with phone calls. I made arrangements to repay the debt by monthly direct debits some time ago. I am now wondering if NatWest have followed all the correct procedures regarding my case.

 

Any help or advice would be great….

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  • 5 months later...

Hi Monday

 

Can I ask you for an update on your case. My son has found himself in exactly the same position. He graduated in Scotland last summer but hasn't paid anything into the account for just over a year. NatWest have now issued a DN against him which they have issued from England even though he lives and banks in Scotland. Do you know if the different jurisidctions makes any difference to the DN?

Arrow Global/MBNA - Discontinued and paid costs

HFO/Morgan Stanley (Barclays) - Discontinued and paid costs

HSBC - Discontinued and paid costs

Nationwide - Ran for cover of stay pending OFT case 3 yrs ago

RBS/Mint - Nothing for 4 yrs after S78 request

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no difference, if you can start a new thread and post up the DN, deleting any personal info

 

ida x

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