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    • Speaking of the reformatory boys, here they are with all of their supporters, some of whom traveled with them from miles away, all carefully crammed together and photographed to look like there were more than about 80 .. rather like Farages last rally with even fewer people crammed around what looked like an ice cream van or mobile tea bar ... Although a number in the crowd apparently thought they were at a vintage car rally as they appeared to be chanting 'crank-her'. A vintage Bentley must be out of view.   Is this all there is? Its less than the Tory candidate. - shut up and smile while they get a camera angle that looks better
    • in order for us to help you we require the following information:- Which Court have you received the claim from ? Canterbury If possible please scan redact and upload a full page copy of page 1 of the claim form. ( Name of the Claimant ? Moneybarn No 1   How many defendant's  joint or self ? One Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 29/05/24 Acknowledged by 14/06/24  Defence by 29/06/24  Particulars of Claim PARTICULARS OF CLAIM   1.  By a Conditional Sale Agreement in writing made on 25th August 2022. Between the Claimant and Defendant, the Claimant let to the Defendant on Conditional Sale. A Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi (200 P S) 4x4 Wildtrack  Double Cab Pickup 3200cc (Sep.2015) Registration No, ******* Chassis number ***************** (“The Vehicle”).  A copy of the agreement is attached   2.  The price of the goods was £15,995.00.  The Initial Rental was £8500.00.  The total charge for credit was £3575.;17 And the balance of £11,070.17 was payable by 59 equal consecutive monthly instalments of £187 63. payable on the 25th of each month.   3.  The following were expressed conditions of the set agreement,   Clause 8: Our Right to End this Agreement  8.1   Subject to sending you the notice as required by law, any of the following events will entitle us to end this Agreement: 8.1.2  You fail to pay the advance payment (if any) or any of the payments as specified on the front page of this agreement or any other sum payable under this Agreement. 8.1.3 If any of the information you have given us before entering into this Agreement or during the term of this Agreement was false 8.1.4 We consider, acting reasonably, that the goods may be in jeopardy or that our rights in the goods may otherwise be prejudiced. 8.1.5 If you die 8.1.6 If a bankruptcy petition is presented against you; if you petition for your own bankruptcy, or make a live arrangement with your creditors or call a meeting of them. 8. 1.7 If in Scotland, you become insolvent or sequestration or a receiver, judicial factor or trustee to be appointed over any of your estate, or effects or suffer an arrestment, charge attachment or other diligence to be issued or levied on any of your estate or effects or suffer any exercise, or threatened exercise of landlords hype hypothec 8.1.8 If you are a partnership, you are dissolved 8.1.9 If the goods are destroyed, lost, stolen and/or treated by the insurer as a total loss in response to an insurance claim. 8.1.10 If we reasonably believe any payment made to us in respect of this Agreement is a proceed of crime. 8.1.11 If steps are taken by us to terminate any other agreement which you have entered into with us.   Clause 9.  Effect of Us Terminating Agreement   9.1 If this Agreement terminates under clause 8 the following will apply 9.1.1 Subject to the rights given to you by law, you will no longer be entitled to possession of the goods and must return them to us to an address as we may reasonably specify, (removing or commencing the removal of any cherished plates) together with a V5 registration certificate, both sets of keys and a service record book. If you are unable or unwilling to return the goods to us then we shall collect the goods and we'll charge you in accordance with clause 10.3 9.1.2 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you for all payments and all other sums do under this agreement at the date of termination 9.1.3 We will sell the goods or public sale at the earliest opportunity once the goods are in a reasonable condition which includes a return of the items listed in clause 7.1.4 9.1.4 We will be entitled to immediate payment from you of the rest of the Total Amount Payable under this agreement less: ( a) A rebate for early settlement ias required by law which will be calculated and notified to you at the time of payment (b) The proceeds of sale of the goods (if any) after deduction of all costs associated with finding you and/or the goods, recovery, refurbishment and repair. Insurance, storage, sale, agents fees, cherished plate removal, replacement keys, costs associated with obtaining service history for the goods and in relation to obtaining a duplicate V5 registration certificate   4, The following are particulars required by Civil Procedure Rules. Rule 7.9 as set out in 7.1 and 7.2 of the associated Practice Direction entitled Hire Purchase Claims:-   a)     The agreement is dated 25 August 2022. And is between Moneybarn No1 Limited  and xxxxxxxxx under agreement number 756050. b)    The claimant was one of the original parties to the agreement. c)    The agreement is regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. d)    The goods claimed Ford Ranger 3.2 TDCi ( 200 PS) 4x4 Wildtrack Double Cab Pickup 3200 cc (Sep2015} Registration No ^^^^^^^ Chassis number ***************** e)     Thw total price of the goods £19570 f)     The paid up sum £1206 5 g)    The unpaid balance of the total price £7505 (to include charges) h)    A default notice was sent to the defendant on 20th February 2024 by Firrst class post i)      The date when the right to demand delivery of the goods accrued 14 March 2024 j)      The amount if any claimed as an alternative to delivery of the goods 7505 22 include charges ]= 5.  A the date of service of the notice the instalments were £562.89 in arrears. 6. By reason of the Termination of the Agreement by the notice, defendant became liable to pay the sum of £7502 7. The date of maturity the agreement is 24th August 2027. 8. Further or  alternative by reasons of  the Defendant breaches of the agreement by failing to pay the said instalments, the Defendant evinced an intention no longer to be bound by the Agreement and repudiated it by the said Notice the claimant accepted that repudiation 9. By reason of such repudiation the claimant has suffered loss and damage.   Total amount payable £19570 Less sum paid or in arrears by the date of repudiation £12064 97 Balance £7505 (to include charges.) ( The claimant will give credit if necessary for the value of the vehicle if recovered.)  The claimant therefore claims 1.    An order for delivery up of the vehicle 2.    The MoneyClaim to be adjourned generally with liberty to restore,  Upon restoration of the MoneyClaim following return or loss of the vehicle. the Claimant will ensure the pre action protocol for debt claims is followed. 3.    Pursuant to s 90 (1)  of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. An order that the Claimant and/or its agents may enter any premises in which the vehicle is situated in order to recover the vehicle should it not be returned by the Defendant 4.    further or alternatively damages 5.    costs.   Statement of truth The Claimant believes that the facts stated in these Particulars of Claim are true. The Claimant understands that the proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes or causes to be made a false statement in the document for verified by statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth. I am duly Authorised by the Claimant to sign these Particulars of Claim signed Dated 17th of April 2024   What is the total value of the claim? 7502   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No   Never heard of this   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? n/a Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? No   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? After  Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In a garage  Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes  Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? n/a   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? They said sent but nor received   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? None seen   Why did you cease payments? Still Paying,   What was the date of your last payment? Yesterday  31st May 2024   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes on 12 Feb 2024   What you need to do now.   Can't scan, will do via another means as you cant have jpg
    • Now that is an interesting article which adds afew perspective that I hadn't thought significant - but on reflection of the perspectives offered ... Now Starmer is no Blair, however 'blairite he may be perceived, but the Tories aren't tories and aren't even remotely liberal   The fast 'unannounced and unexpected election call from sunack may well be explained by the opinion linked that he hoped reform would be unprepared and effectively call a chunk of Farages largely empty bluster - making him look even more of a prat, leave scope for attacks on shabby reform candidates and mimimise core vote losses to reform - while throwing the 'middle ground' (relative) tories TO THE DOGS - and with the added bonus of likely pacifying his missu' desire to jogg off to sunny cal tout suite somewhat   thumb in the air - I expect about 140ish tory seats, but can hope for under a hundred Reform - got to admit the outside possibility of 1, maybe 2 seats with about 8% of the vote - but unlikely. I think projections of over 10% of the vote for reform is nudged and paid for speculation - but possible with the expected massive drives from Russian, Chinese and far right social media bot and troll prods targeting the gullible.
    • Commentary June 2024 WWW.ELECTORALCALCULUS.CO.UK Interesting article about just how bad it could be for the Tories.  Also Tories could be hoping on Reform not having candidates in many seats, as they were not ready.  
    • Even a Piers Morgan is an improvement and a gutless Farage Piers Morgan calls for second Brexit referendum WWW.THELONDONECONOMIC.COM Piers Morgan and Nigel Farage have faced off over Brexit and a second referendum in a heated reunion on BBC Question Time.   “Why don’t we have another referendum about Brexit?” he questioned. “I seem to remember when 2016 came around we were told there was going to be control of our borders and it was going to be economically beneficial to this country. And eight years later we have lost complete control of our borders… and economically it seems to have been a wilful act of self-harm.”   ... Piers missed off : after all somebody said a 48/52 decision would be "unfinished business" by a long way - was that person just bul lying (again)  
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

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      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

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Repo order help with defence needed.


cosalt
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According to this link:

 

Applying to Set Aside a Judgment Made at a Hearing - About Small Claims (UK)

 

set aside is only an option if you weren't in court. Since the judge has already refused an appeal this leaves the Appeal Court as your only option. (That's assuming it was the Small Claims' court.)

 

I think you're referring to set aside of a default judgement, but cosalt was in court and set aside is available.

 

Also, it wasn't small claims. Appeals are a different matter as well.

 

LA

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I think you're referring to set asidelink3.gif of a default judgement, but cosalt was in court and set asidelink3.gif is available.

I'm just quoting that site, which says set aside isn't available if the defendant was in court. I've no idea myself whether or not it's correct in these circumstances.
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I think you're referring to set aside of a default judgement, but cosalt was in court and set aside is available.

 

Also, it wasn't small claims. Appeals are a different matter as well.

 

LA

 

LA humbleman is going through the appeals process and has quite a long thread with a lot of input on it.

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I'm just quoting that site, which says set aside isn't available if the defendant was in court. I've no idea myself whether or not it's correct in these circumstances.

 

I think any judgement can be subject to set aside, default or not. There has to be a reason for the application (which cosalt I think has) but we also need to know the probablility of the case being re-heard before the same judge.

 

If the probability is high, then use appeal route as M suggests.

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Thinking about it I wonder how they are going to register the CCJ ? The agreement and all the paperwork is in the company name, which as it is a partnership is just a 'trading as' title. We are the company, but if they registered the CCJ in the company name it would be meaningless as any search done on us would use our personal details.

 

Anyone know anything about this ?

 

Just a thought Cosalt,

 

I had a CCJ registered against me, and they were taking me tocourt to put a charging order against my house, so I paid for an N244 form to set aside a Judgement. The hearing for both the charging order and my reasons to set aside were at the same time. The judge, whilst snotty with me, let me file my reasons for defence, and that was a Dodgy DN. As I had paid the £75 they were bound by their own oath to here my defence. There was no denying it was a faulty notice, and I also put in that I had made many payments to the loan. The DJ was abit arsy about my defence but when I told him all I had to say was the truth and I mentioned I had a Faulty DN, the oppositions solicitro took me out of the court, reviewed my DN's and after a 45 min chat with the Claimant, went back in court and said they were happy to set aside the Default Judgement. I am not usre if this helps and there are many other more experienced people on here, but the DJ had to go along with the dodgy DN as a defence to my CCJ.

 

Whatever....everybody on here is routing for you including me. Good luck.

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The issue of potentially getting the same judge to review his earlier decision has to be a no-go from the court perspective. It would make no sense for the court to put this matter before the same judge as we'd all agree I'm sure.

 

Logic and plain common sense would demand that a different judge is asked to review the earlier decision. Bit like asking a doctor for a second opinion and out they go, only to come back in again and present the same diagnosis!

 

Would be crazy :p

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Thanks for the continued help everyone, ive just been out on my mountain bike to take my mind off things !

 

So who makes the decision about if to accept the set aside or not ? How can I find this out, will the court tell me.

 

There seems to be so much conflicting information, all valid and appreciated, I just dont know where to go from here ?

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talking the comments of the judge at face value as you have reported them, the grounds for appeal are that

 

The judge mis- directed himself

 

the basis of the appeal being that the judge did not have any authority to counter the provisions of the consumer credit act with regard to the steps that the creditor must take before he can claim ENTITLEMENT to the benefits of s87 of the act

 

thus, if he ruled that an admission of the debt by the defendant- gave grounds to the creditor to claim repayment of sums not yet due- then he clearly misdirected himself.

 

the question of whether you admit the debt (in full or with provisos) is a read herring and irrelevant

 

even if you admit the debt (which of COURSE can be proven to exist in 99% of cases - even without an agreement) the creditor CANNOT claim entitlement to demand re payment of sums not yet due, nor terminate the agreement UNLESS he first complies with the requirements of the act with relation to the Default Notice

 

the are several issues with the DN which make it inneffective-and thus prevent the claimant from demanding payment of sums not yet due- not least of which is the fact that what was produced by the claimant to support his claim against you and alleged to be a true copy of the DN served on you- was in fact no such thing and therefore did not provide a cause of action.

 

i suspect (no offence) that you have failed to put your case in this respect to the court in a legally correct manner and/or a combination of a judge looking for an easy day in court

 

either way an appeal (if your report of the judges decision making process is correct) - is IMO a cast iron home banker

 

although hard for a LIP- it is (IMO) always a good idea when you see a judge leaning this way is to politely tell him something along the lines of " if you are minded to find in favour of the claimant on this point- then i would be obliged if you would make full notes of your reasoning for appeal purposes"

 

in other words you should alert the judge to the fact that you will appeal

 

whether he "gives you permission to appeal" is really of no significance if you are alleging that he has mis directed himself

 

you NEED to get the transcript pronto and get notice of your appeal going

 

All IMO of course

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talking the comments of the judge at face value as you have reported them, the grounds for appeal are that

 

The judge mis- directed himself

 

the basis of the appeal being that the judge did not have any authority to counter the provisions of the consumer credit act with regard to the steps that the creditor must take before he can claim ENTITLEMENT to the benefits of s87 of the act

 

thus, if he ruled that an admission of the debt by the defendant- gave grounds to the creditor to claim repayment of sums not yet due- then he clearly misdirected himself.

 

the question of whether you admit the debt (in full or with provisos) is a read herring and irrelevant

 

even if you admit the debt (which of COURSE can be proven to exist in 99% of cases - even without an agreement) the creditor CANNOT claim entitlement to demand re payment of sums not yet due, nor terminate the agreement UNLESS he first complies with the requirements of the act with relation to the Default Notice

 

the are several issues with the DN which make it inneffective-and thus prevent the claimant from demanding payment of sums not yet due- not least of which is the fact that what was produced by the claimant to support his claim against you and alleged to be a true copy of the DN served on you- was in fact no such thing and therefore did not provide a cause of action.

 

i suspect (no offence) that you have failed to put your case in this respect to the court and/or a combination of a judge looking for an easy day in court

 

either way an appeal (if your report of the judges decision making process is correct) - is a cast iron home banker

 

although hard for a LIP- it is (IMO) always a good idea when you see a judge leaning this way is to politely tell him something along the lines of " if you are minded to find in favour of the claimant on this point- then i would be obliged if you would make full notes of your reasoning for appeal purposes"

 

in other words you should alert the judge to the fact that you will appeal

 

whether he "gives you permission to appeal" is really of no significance if you are alleging that he has mis directed himself

 

you NEED to get the transcript pronto and get notice of your appeal going

 

All IMO of course

 

Hi DD

 

Thanks for you input. so to clarify are you saying an appeal is a must and a set aside is not.

 

I have an appeal form (n161), I asked for it on the way out of the court ! It does look very confusing, is there anything particular I should know.

 

Am I really going to get a fair deal with the appeal ? Will I have to go to another hearing ? how long will it take to get the appeal ? will everything go on hold in the meantime ?

 

Loads of questions but I really now feel out of my depth ( if I wasnt before )

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Hi DD

 

Thanks for you input. so to clarify are you saying an appeal is a must and a set aside is not.

 

I have an appeal form (n161), I asked for it on the way out of the court ! It does look very confusing, is there anything particular I should know.

 

Am I really going to get a fair deal with the appeal ? Will I have to go to another hearing ? how long will it take to get the appeal ? will everything go on hold in the meantime ?

 

Loads of questions but I really now feel out of my depth ( if I wasnt before )

 

as i said- if what you say is correct the judge clearly misdirected himself- he used your admission of a debt to the creditor as a reason to allow the creditor to claim entitlement to s87 of the CCA even though they had not complied (in several fatal respects) with the requirements of the act in which he was making a decision

 

pm citizem B and she will give you some usefulk links to filling out the forms which are not too difficult

 

but you must get your a*se in gear and not prevaricate

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ok I need the transcription of the judgement, do i need this before submitting the appellants notice, I will phone the court today and get the name of a transcriber.

 

Is the timescale for an appeal 14 days from the date of the judgement ? Any idea how long the transcription usually takes.

 

I also need a form n460 which the judge should have completed I believe ?

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as i said- if what you say is correct the judge clearly misdirected himself- he used your admission of a debt to the creditor as a reason to allow the creditor to claim entitlement to s87 of the CCA even though they had not complied (in several fatal respects) with the requirements of the act in which he was making a decision

 

pm citizem B and she will give you some usefulk links to filling out the forms which are not too difficult

 

but you must get your a*se in gear and not prevaricate

 

but...surely grounds for set aside :confused:

 

As emandcole has said, it probably is unlikely that the same DJ will hear.

 

If set aside granted, then timescale for appeal runs after the re-heard case, not the original. If not granted, then nothing lost.

 

The timescale for application/processing of set aside should be very quick. It is probably assessed by the court manager or clerk.

 

It will not cost you anything cosalt (as your income is below the threshold) and in the meantime you can busy yourself with appeal docs.

 

Well, just my thoughts, but would think sensible given the small amount of time/effort/cost and the significantly increased hassle of appeal. Just ignore me if you're set on appeal (which I cannot see you losing - DD's summary is perfectly accurate).

 

LA

;)

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Hi LA, no I am not set on appeal at all I just want to take the best option and get it right. What you say makes perfect sense, I just worry if I am going to end up appealing anyway I may as well do it now.

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Hi LA, no I am not set on appeal at all I just want to take the best option and get it right. What you say makes perfect sense, I just worry if I am going to end up appealing anyway I may as well do it now.

 

Understand completely cosalt, you need to make the best decision for you not me! You're getting lots of good advice from the other CAGgers so hopefully will find the way forward shortly.

 

Keep posting/asking questions though - I am sure there are lots of us behind you and who also have an interest in what happens next.

 

LA

;)

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Good advice LA,

 

Hang on cosalt in there, after what i have been through this should be a walk in the park for you.

 

Wish legalpickle was here as he is out of this world when it comes to appeals and courts.

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Ok, so am I right in saying the following:-

 

1. A set aside is where the judgement is effectively stopped and the case is re run in the same court with a new hearing.

 

2. An appeal is where the judgement is looked into to see if it is correct by a higher court.

 

Can the claimant object to either of these ?

 

What are the costs implications, say I got the set aside and it was re heard ( if that is right ), would the claimant get double / extra costs as a result if I lose ?

 

Sorry for all the questions....

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