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    • Regretfully it does. Have you actually seen any papers which show what you were charged with (rather than what you were convicted of)? It is unusual not to be “dual charged” but if you were not charged with both, you are where you are. If you had been charged with both offences and providing you were the driver at the time, you could, after performing your SD, have asked the prosecutor to drop the “Fail to Provide” (FtP) charges in exchange for a guilty plea to the speeding charges (you cannot be convicted of speeding unless you plead guilty as they have no evidence you were driving). You will have difficulty defending the FtP charges. In fact, it’s worse than that – you have no chance of successfully defending them at all because the reason you did not respond to the requests is because you did not receive them and that’s entirely your fault. No it’s not correct. Six months from 18/11/23 was 18/5/24 so, unless they were originally charged, the speeding offences are now “timed out.” There is one avenue left open to you. If you perform your SD you must serve it on the court which convicted you. You will then receive a date for a hearing to have the matters heard again. Your only chance of having the matters revert to speeding (and this is only providing you were the driver at the time of those offences) is to plead Not Guilty, attend court and ask the prosecutor (very nicely, explaining what a pillock you know you were for failing to update your  V5C) if (s)he is prepared to raise “out of time” speeding charges, to which you will offer to plead guilty if the FtP charges are dropped.   This is strictly speaking not lawful. Charges have to be raised within six months. Some prosecutors are willing to do it, others are not. But frankly it’s the only avenue open to you. There is a risk with this. I imagine you have been fined £660 (plus surcharge and costs) for each offence. The offence attracts a fine of 1.5 week’s net income and where the court has no information about the defendant’s means a default figure of £440pw is used.  If the prosecutor is not prepared to play ball you can revise your pleas to guilty. A sympathetic court should give you the full discount (one third) for your guilty pleas in these circumstances but they may reduce the discount somewhat. The prosecution may also ask for increased costs (£90 or thereabouts is the figure for a guilty plea). So it may cost you more if you have a decent income (I’ll let you do the sums). But MS90 is an endorsement code which gives insurers a fit of the vapours. One such endorsement will see your premiums double. Two of them will see many insurers refuse to quote you at all. So you really want to exhaust every possibility of avoiding them if you can. One warning: do not pay solicitors silly money to defend you. Making an SD before a solicitor should attract just a nominal sum (perhaps a tenner). That’s all you should pay for. You have no viable defence against the FtP charges and any solicitor suggesting you have is telling you porkies. The offer to do the deal is easily done by yourself and you can save the solicitor’s fees to put towards a few taxis and increased insurance premiums if you are unsuccessful. In the happy event you find out you were "dual charged", let me know and I'll tell you how to proceed. (Seems a bit odd hoping you were charged with four driving offences rather than two, but it's a funny old world!).    
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Is This A CCA or Just an Initial Application?


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I received this from Barclaycard (they have now passed the account on to CSL).

 

Isn't this just a copy of my initial application and then a copy of the current terms and conditions as set out by a CCA?

 

What I am hoping is my initial application...

 

BCApp-Paint.jpg

 

BCCApp-Paint2.jpg

 

BCCApp-Paint3.jpg

 

Photocopy of their conditions...

 

016.jpg

 

017.jpg

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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No prescribed terms on your "application". Is there any way the application and their T&Cs could be part of the same document, it doesn't look like it but it is pretty hard to read too.

<<<If I have helped please tickle the scales;-)<<<

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They are two seperate documents.

 

The first one the copy is very bad and there are parts on it that I cannot read.

 

It says the following:

 

At the top on the right: BARCLAYCARD Priority Application, underneath that it has a barcode on it with my name, underneath it says 'all it needs is a little application'.

 

It has my name and address top left.

 

In the large box on the left of the paper it asks for my details:

 

Title

Name

DOB

Telephone Number

Mother's Maiden Name

Earnings

Bank

Sort Code

Whether I am employed (I ticked yes)

 

It then says in the little box underneath it: This is a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974, sign only if you want to be bound legally by it's terms. There is my signature and the date underneath.

 

There is then a grey box underneath that says Credit Agreement Regulated By the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and there are approximately 10 small lines of writing that is impossible to read.

 

At the bottom (where I have ticked something) I believe that is with regard to PPI.

 

I have had a couple of people look at this (no legal wizzes though) and they have said they are certain it is just an initial application that I have filled in.

 

The second document reads 'Barclaycard Conditions Credit Agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974'.

 

To me it simply looks like an application form and then a seperate sheet of terms and conditions :???:

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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That is my gut reaction also - it even has on it which free gift I wanted, I chose the Barclaycard travel bag :D

 

And that they have been nice enough to throw in the current terms and conditions for me.

 

What do you think I should do?

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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I was hoping you were going to say that!

 

Now, I have been dealing with Credit Solutions for months as BC passed it onto them, I CCA'd CSL and they said they were getting in touch with BC, this 'CCA' garb actually came from Barclaycard, complete with compliments slip.

 

Do I send the dispute to CSL or BC?

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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Will do, thank you for your help :)

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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Is there anyone else that has had a look at this and thought differently?

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

A response to a CCA that is in part illegible is one cause for the unenforceable argument. The Creditor is duty bound to supply the documentation in a clear and readable state.

 

As said, it's hard to read and initially it looks like a copy of the application form and separate T&Cs

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Thanks Davey.

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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Apart from the fact i only see one signature. Where is the lenders?

 

s61 CCA - Signing of agreement:

(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

© the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible.

s127(3) CCA:

(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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I am sending a dispute to them, should I send a SAR too or wait to see what they say about the dispute?

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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I uploaded them to my laptop via my phone and then used Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket to link them to here :)

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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Can I ask how you upload the image ? is it from a hosting site or direct from your PC ?

I need to have 2 ccas looked at

Thanks for any help

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/177224-credit-agreement-copy-2.html#post1956681

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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I would Subject Access Request them as they can take a very long time to comply. 40 days is the limit but they may go over that and then you'll have to complain to the Information Commissioners Office etc. Again takes time.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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Okay, will do.

 

If I SAR them, am I still meant to make payments? I haven't been doing so, although they took an unauthorised payment from my card today, so have had to get on the phone to my bank etc. Nightmare (a whole other thread infact!).

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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I wouldn't like to say don't pay, on the basis of what they have sent. As it's not an obvious unenforceable agreement to the eye immediately (to me at least) then, if it's affordable, then probably best to continue to pay (and avoid a lot of hassle, calls & letters in the mean time IMO.

 

On a question of affordability then priority debts take precedence and you pay what you can afford after rent, food, utilities. If they don't like it on that basis then tough. (National Debtline would agree on that front.)

 

I didn't have such worries, eventually, with no assets, property etc. Other people who actually have something to lose and don't pay, based only on what they receive to a CCA request, have to consider the matter more carefully.

:!: -Any advise I give is based purely on my own experience. It should not be solely relied upon as I am NOT a legal expert and any major decisions you make should not be based on my opinion alone -

HFC Bank - Davey vs HFC

Barclays - Monthly payments made

Cahoot - Agreement received, awaiting 2nd agreement after DCA.

MBNA1&2 - Agreements received. (Currently in limbo)

Halifax - Davey vs Halifax/Cabot

MINT - Davey vs Mint

Amex - Davey vs Amex

Cap1 **WON** £1,500 Written Off Davey vs Cap1

 

Never Sign Anything

 

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it even has on it which free gift I wanted, I chose the Barclaycard travel bag

 

Accepting the bag binds you into the contract and you must pay or they will take you to court, make you bankkrupt, sell your house and chain you to a lamppost for 20 lashings.

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Oh darn. That's me done for isn't it then :D

 

Davey - the payment is the whole reason I discovered CAG in the first place. I am on JSA and was paying £35 a month, I made a late payment to them and they then put it up to £50. I said it was too much. They said TOUGH basically.

 

I then came on here and here I am.

 

I have no idea what to pay them, and as they have now stolen money from my account (see my other thread) I am loathed to pay them anything unless I have to!

Never argue with an idiot, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you on experience ;)

 

Inca V Crapital One: Low monthly payments accepted - Paid

Inca V HSBC (Charges): WON - Charge reversed.

Inca V Barclaycard/CSL: Complaint sent after CSL illegally took money from my account. Dispute ready to send: Not heard anything since March 2009! Jan 2011 Rc'd letter from new debt collectors saying they have bought the debt. Joy!

Inca's Nan V Saga Card: Utter *****!! Low payments eventually accepted

Inca's Nan V MBNA: Low payments accepted

Inca's sister V Moorcroft: WON. Low payments accepted.

Inca's sister V Thames Credit: Nothing received. Dispute sent 08/01/09: Not heard a dicky bird since March 2009!

 

 

 

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