Volvo V Capital One + Lowell (was Intrum Justitia)

[volvo]

Hi all

 

In May 2007 i sent Intrum a CCA request using the site template regarding a debt with Capital One that had been passed to Intrum.

 

Three days later in May 2007 i received a letter from Intrum advising that they were unable to provide the requested information and had returned the account to Capital One, so i stopped making token payments.

 

All was quiet until December 2008 when i received a letter from Lowell advising they had purchased the account from Capital One in Nov 2008 enclosing a notice of assignment letter supposedly from Capital One in the same envelope.

 

I wrote to Lowell in Dec 2008 making a 'Formal Complaint' advising the account was in dispute due to the non-compliance with my CCA request of May 2007, to which i have received no response so far.

 

I also wrote to Capital One making a Formal Complaint in Dec 2008 due to them having sold in Nov 2008 a disputed debt to Lowell following it being returned to Cap One in May 2007.

 

Cap One replied end Dec 2008 advising that they have no record of receiving a CCA request from me but have enclosed the requested documents.

 

All they sent was a 12 page Terms and Conditions letter not addressed to anyone, not even an application form, so the letter is a blank T&C that could relate to anyone. They seem to have qualified this in their letter stating: my personal details, the signature box, signature and date of signature have been ommitted as permitted under Reg 3 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices & Copy Documents) Regulations 1983.

 

The T & C's have a date of 20.01.04 but i defaulted on the account in Nov 1999 and had been prior to May 2007 making token payments to Cap One and then Intrum.

 

Anyone got any idea how to respond, do i need to send Cap One a new CCA request in case Intrum did not pass it to them in May 2007, or what.

 

Apologies for rather long posting

 

VOLVO

[volvo]

Just thinking, would a SAR to Capital One be a good idea?

 

VOLVO

[42man]

With a SAR, hopefully you will know where you stand, this is a good one to use

 

send this letter, you may need to alter parts of it depending on who you are sending it to. You should send a £10 postal order with each one and address it to the Data Controller at each company:-

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

sign your name but put crosses through it so it can't be 'lifted'

 

-----------------

 

As for the response to the CCA request you could send them this

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account Number: XXX

 

Re; your recent reply to my request under section 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

I note that you have replied to the above by sending your companies current Terms and conditions I must inform you that this is not sufficient to comply with the request and that your company is still in default under the act.

 

To clarify, just sending the Terms and Conditions is a breach of the Act and Regulations as, apart from the information that the Regulations provide that you may exclude, the copy must be a “true copy” of the agreement.

 

This breach of the agreement can be demonstrated as follows;

As you will know section 180(1) (b) authorises, “the omission from a copy of certain material from the original, or the inclusion of certain material in condensed form.” This refers to statutory instruments made under the heading Copies of document regulations and in this care in particular to SI 1983/1557.

 

Before leaving section 180 there are two other sections that should be remembered these are:

 

Section 2(2) (a) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not satisfied unless the copy supplied is in the prescribed form and conforms to the prescribed requirements;

 

And more importantly

 

Section 2(b) A duty imposed by any provision of this Act (except section 35) to supply a copy of any document is not infringed by the omission of any material, or its inclusion in condensed form, if that is authorised by regulations.

 

You will see that this quite clearly states that whilst certain items may be left out of the copy document the rest of the document must be in the form and contain all items as prescribed by the regulations.

 

Turning to the regulations regarding what may be omitted from these copies these are contained with SI 1983/1557.

 

The regulations state:

(2) There may be omitted from any such copy-

(a) any information included in an executed agreement, security instrument or other document relating to the debtor, hirer or surety or included for the use of the creditor or owner only which is not required to be included therein by the Act or any Regulations thereunder as to the form and content of the document of which it is a copy;

(b) any signature box, signature or date of signature (other than, in the case of a copy of a cancelable executed agreement delivered to the debtor under section 63(1) of the Act, the date of signature by the debtor of an agreement to which section 68(b) of the Act applies);

 

It is quite clear what can be omitted from the copy document, this again asserts that all other details of the agreement should presented in form and content as required by the regulations.

 

The requirements of the Agreement regulations 1983/1553 are very explicit in describing the form and content of an agreement and this as I have demonstrated also applies to the copy of any such agreement with the above mentioned proviso.

 

Nowhere within these regulations does it state that part of the agreement can be presented on a separate document headed terms and conditions.

It does state that all terms and conditions should be within the agreement document and is explicit of the form in which it is presented.

 

I hope this explains why your reply was unacceptable I await a True copy of my agreement and would remind you again that whilst the request has not been complied with the default continues

 

Yours faithfully

[volvo]

Many Thanks 42man for excellent responses.

 

Looks like i have got a bit of typing to do.

 

Thanks

 

VOLVO

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

sorry to butt in on your thread but it seems that in the past few days that there has been a lot of lowlife threads. I'm wondering if they have started a blitz campaign.

As for your case, a SAR will glean lots of info but an A/C indispute letter is also called for as you requested a CCA before and what Crap1 have sent you is just T's&C's.

It's also very odd that you should get a notice of assignment in the same envelope from clownells. Methinks a forgery??

Keep the evidence and if you feel like taking tham on, complain to everyone.

 

fox

[volvo]

I have already sent Formal Complaint/Dispute Letter to Cap One and the SAR letter and letter ref what they supplied for CCA is now typed out and ready for Special Delivery tommorow.

 

VOLVO

[the main man]

Another one here with a disputed Capital One account sold to Lowells in November

 

I have had three letters off them so far, the latest one received today says they are sending someone around to see me:rolleyes:

 

They must be getting desperate:D

[Desperate Daniella]

I think I have seen on other threads that you can send a letter saying they cannot come to see you without making an appointment, and you have no desire to make an appointment with them. When I have said this to various 'collectors' they will swear that is not the case, so you'll have to insist.

 

I haven't started my own Capone thread yet, but am keeping up with it all on Sunflower99's (I don't think she minds as we are sharing info?!!), and as I have said there they aren't producing anything to prove they have an enforceable agreement.

 

DD

[volvo]

Not a penny more from me until they produce a valid CCA agreement

 

VOLVO

[rory32]

Also have a read here Volvo http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-protection-unfair-trading/147830-complaint-oft-respect-invalid.html

You may wish to adapt it to your circumstances.

[volvo]

Thanks Rory

 

Invaluable information, as always.

 

Cheers

 

VOLVO

(Working again after my redundancy, now for a pittance)

[beachcomber60]

Subscribing

[volvo]

Update

 

Sent letter to Capital One and received attachment as the CCA agreement, bearing in mind they have already sent me 12 pages of blank Terms and Conditions dated 20.01.04 although the account was started in October 1998.

 

Can anyone confirm whether this contains all the prescribed terms and is valid as a CCA agreement.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=5565&stc=1&d=1232563369

 

Thanks

 

VOLVO

[rory32]

It's too small to read volvo.

[volvo]

Reposted with larger link

 

Any ideas on enforceability as a CCA agreement?

 

Thanks

 

VOLVO

 

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x223/volvooo/IMG_0001.jpg

[volvo]

Just had Lowell ring up chasing as Capital One have sold it to Lowell.

 

Can anyone advise on enforceability please.

 

VOLVO

[volvo]

..bump..

[silverfox1961]

If that is all they sent you then in my very humble opinion, it's the usual lowlifes rubbish.

[volvo]

As i said in my earlier post they had previously sent me 12 pages of terms and conditions which related to 2004, although i took the account out in 1998, dont know how they fitted these 12 full pages of T & C if they were supposed to be on the back of the flyer 'application form' now supplied in response to my CCA request. Still unsure if the application form now supplied meets with the prescribed terms etc., and is therefore enforceable or NOT?

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x223/volvooo/IMG_0001.jpg

Volvo

[silverfox1961]

As there are no terms and conditions, no APR in fact nothing apart from the fact it is an application form I would say, UNENFORCEABLE

 

Others will probably say the same.

 

fox

[the main man]

usual Cap1 application form with no prescribed terms

[volvo]

Hi

 

If this application form supplied is unenforceable has anyone got a good reply letter to send back to Capital One quoting the legal details etc.,

Volvo

Edited January 21, 2009 by volvo

[silverfox1961]

Idainfife did this brilliant one which you can edit it to suit your needs

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/172071-letter-co-solicitors.html#post1856406

 

Just copy and paste and edit away

[volvo]

This letter offerd in the previous post states they have not sent me an executed agreement, but i and capital one have both signed the agreement/application form, so i am ok to still send this letter??

 

Volvo

[jaystar2020]

HI Volvo

The doc you signed refers to 't's and c's overleaf'...so where are these t's and c's??? Not provided

Also, states 'this is a credit agreement...(not 'card')'. This makes it suspect as well.

Also, no prescribed terms.

 

Suggest request CCA again, with Terms etc from the Original at least!

 

Hope this helps.

J

 

I' m not a lawyer.