Thanks Bazaar... So CCA reply is legit, Agreement stands... But the CPR 31.16 request for actual CCA copy may take some time - so repayments to continue while this process unfolds? How can they actually be held in 'default' of this request? Only through their admission? I have read through the items at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html, it really is a request, not legally bound by a time frame. But may be enough leverage to get a definitive answer! J

Hi All, Same response from B'card here, T's and C's, old and new, and an account summary, but no actual agreement. 'True copy' is not 'copy of actual'... As Slick, and others, have pointed out, CPR 31.16 seems a more useful device. 'you should write to them setting out that you need the agreement to assess if it was properly executed'. But is there any specified time limit on the reply? Or any Legislation pertaining to the honouring of the request? It seems only the threat of Court Enforced disclosure acts as the leverage here, which may be of use... J

Hi Bubblecat, Did the terms and conditions, both original and current, arrive with this document? J

Thanks for the help Chris_w, The Application form has been requested. It was only taken out in 2007, and I hope I'm right in requesting the actual document. Am still laughing - that the t's and c's have my name misspelt, so erm, that contract will be with me, eh? Not...yay! Thanks, will await. J

Hi All, Sent my CCA request to Halifax 29th December 08. They replied to me today with a letter dated ... 272th January (!) The letter- outlines in point form the account balance, credit limit, current interest %, arrears (incorrect), etc. Finally - 'Please note that the information we have provided you, etc, Sect78 of the CCA. We are not required to provide a copy of the original, etc' K Mitchell pp Anne Gartshore They have included fresh printouts of undated and unsigned Consumer Credit Card Agreements, however the earlier, judging by an '/07' code on the rear, is between Bank of Scotland and 'mis-spelt last name'??? I have replied with the following letter, however I hope anyone here might suggest whether this is accurate, or recommended? ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE Ref: KM/CCA S.78 Dear Sir/Madam, On 29 December, 2008, I made a formal request for a ‘true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account’ under Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77/8. You have failed to comply with this request, and as such the account entered default on 13th January, 2009. According to the Consumer Credit act, ‘78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it…’. Further, the documents you have provided are undated – I am unable to determine the repayment amounts, etc, relating to the Agreement as such, one bears the name of someone other than myself - as this is the original agreement, I myself do not acknowledge any debt to your company Your communication ref: KM/CCA s.78 - ‘as at the date of this letter’ refers to the date of 272th of January – this renders the statutory information worthless and non-compliant with my requests. As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such, you: * may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. * may not add further interest or any charges to the account. * may not pass the account to a third party. * may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency. * may not issue a default notice related to the account. Any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. I hope that you will honour my request for a copy of the original signed Agreement, and would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I look forward to your reply. Yours sincerely, Jaystar Have they actually complied as they state, or are they doing some wool-pulling? Apart from their effort being a bit shoddy, that is... Many thanks J

Hi Bubblecat, this sounds like an 'application form', states 'credit' not 'credit card' Agreement, and no Terms or Conditions, and no repayment/APR details or Credit Limit? Sounds fishy... Maroondevo52, hope it's ok to borrow/modify the letter here. Am in the same situation as Bubblecat and rec'd the same reply, but no CCA, so am going to again request the CCA doc. J

Hi try to scan and post for the time being, even if illegible... J

HI Volvo The doc you signed refers to 't's and c's overleaf'...so where are these t's and c's??? Not provided Also, states 'this is a credit agreement...(not 'card')'. This makes it suspect as well. Also, no prescribed terms. Suggest request CCA again, with Terms etc from the Original at least! Hope this helps. J I' m not a lawyer.

Hi Toxicdebt Yes, good point, mine too has a reference to t's and c's, but no indication that they are located on the reverse of the Application form...so where is the link, where are these t's and c's we are signing for...etc. Also, FULL t's and c's should legally be provided methinks - how can a contract be fair and binding if the fully disclosed terms etc are not provided for the signatory at the time. This basically says - sign this 'application', we'll hold you to it, AND all the terms that we provide at some later date that you don't know about yet...er, yeah, ok, sounds reasonable...NOT! I'm sorry, this is not a legal point, my opinion, but I am fighting the battle this way. Such as 'Read condition 11 in the Terms and Conditions' (yours states this too) - the paragraph goes on to discuss Information Privacy - yet Condition 11 on the 'back' is about varying the interest rate??? Also the application (yours too) states 'Terms and Conditions provided'. However, the reverse shows 'Financial and related Conditions'...so where are the 'Terms' referred to? Hope this helps J

Hi another potentially useful letter here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/177761-recieved-mbna-cca-request.html#post1919069 at Post 7. Cheers J

Hi http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful-10.html Post 190 has a letter regarding CCA Default. I read here yesterday that online agreements after 2004 are valid without a copy in writing - worth checking that though. J

Hi Andrew1980 Were amended copies sent in response to SAR request?

Hi All (and Slick123, Thanks for the tip re requesting CCA...) A few days ago I received a reply from MBNA Thought I had posted details, but thay are not here??? OK It is similar to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/177617-can-someone-check-cca.html Covering letter - http://a.imagehost.org/0951/img024.jpg Credit Agreement http://a.imagehost.org/0449/img025.jpg Reverse of Agreement http://a.imagehost.org/0659/img026.jpg Same deal - MBNA application is not co-signed by MBNA, Terms column is on reverse No mention of default fees. It clearly says 'application', and also 'A Credit Agreement', not 'Card Agreement'. They did reply with this within the 12 days, seems thay have a reply strategy going? The signature box - am I agreeing to be bound by the Agreement, or the Consumer Credit Act? The Application suggests by signing I am bound by the T's and C's...there is no mention of where these are to be found, or that they are overleaf. In other words, I signed an application, and did not have the Conditions, and many of the Terms, to hand at the time of signing. How is that fair? Anyhow, no scanner at present, but any help greatly appreciated. J

Hi All I wonder if a recent discovery answers this. MBNA are on a new drive to 'weed out' low and slow paying accounts, and the interest rate hike (mine too...) is their subtle way of getting the cash flowing, or highlighting potentially difficult debts and then perhaps selling them on...? The logic defies...well, logic. There is another post somewhere on this same topic, same lot. They are morally bankrupt. J

Hi... looks like MBNA have a'bundle' system going on, I received basically the same. The Request is not signed and dated by MBNA, although this could easily be remedied. In the signature box, the statement...are we agreeing to be bound by the Agreement, or the Consumer Credit Act? On reverse, Terms have been provided but 'conditions' agreed to are...where? Also, if the t and c's are the same as mine, there is no mention of any default or penalty fee, should a payment not take place...? Does not say 'Credit Card Agreement'... Is a 'Request'...? Grey areas, many questions... J