Thanks Bazaar... So CCA reply is legit, Agreement stands... But the CPR 31.16 request for actual CCA copy may take some time - so repayments to continue while this process unfolds? How can they actually be held in 'default' of this request? Only through their admission? I have read through the items at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html, it really is a request, not legally bound by a time frame. But may be enough leverage to get a definitive answer! J

Hi All, Same response from B'card here, T's and C's, old and new, and an account summary, but no actual agreement. 'True copy' is not 'copy of actual'... As Slick, and others, have pointed out, CPR 31.16 seems a more useful device. 'you should write to them setting out that you need the agreement to assess if it was properly executed'. But is there any specified time limit on the reply? Or any Legislation pertaining to the honouring of the request? It seems only the threat of Court Enforced disclosure acts as the leverage here, which may be of use... J

Hi Bubblecat, Did the terms and conditions, both original and current, arrive with this document? J

Thanks for the help Chris_w, The Application form has been requested. It was only taken out in 2007, and I hope I'm right in requesting the actual document. Am still laughing - that the t's and c's have my name misspelt, so erm, that contract will be with me, eh? Not...yay! Thanks, will await. J

Hi All, Sent my CCA request to Halifax 29th December 08. They replied to me today with a letter dated ... 272th January (!) The letter- outlines in point form the account balance, credit limit, current interest %, arrears (incorrect), etc. Finally - 'Please note that the information we have provided you, etc, Sect78 of the CCA. We are not required to provide a copy of the original, etc' K Mitchell pp Anne Gartshore They have included fresh printouts of undated and unsigned Consumer Credit Card Agreements, however the earlier, judging by an '/07' code on the rear, is between Bank of Scotland and 'mis-spelt last name'??? I have replied with the following letter, however I hope anyone here might suggest whether this is accurate, or recommended? ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE Ref: KM/CCA S.78 Dear Sir/Madam, On 29 December, 2008, I made a formal request for a ‘true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account’ under Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77/8. You have failed to comply with this request, and as such the account entered default on 13th January, 2009. According to the Consumer Credit act, ‘78 Duty to give information to debtor under running-account credit agreement (1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it…’. Further, the documents you have provided are undated – I am unable to determine the repayment amounts, etc, relating to the Agreement as such, one bears the name of someone other than myself - as this is the original agreement, I myself do not acknowledge any debt to your company Your communication ref: KM/CCA s.78 - ‘as at the date of this letter’ refers to the date of 272th of January – this renders the statutory information worthless and non-compliant with my requests. As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take any action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such, you: * may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. * may not add further interest or any charges to the account. * may not pass the account to a third party. * may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency. * may not issue a default notice related to the account. Any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. I hope that you will honour my request for a copy of the original signed Agreement, and would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I look forward to your reply. Yours sincerely, Jaystar Have they actually complied as they state, or are they doing some wool-pulling? Apart from their effort being a bit shoddy, that is... Many thanks J

Hi Bubblecat, this sounds like an 'application form', states 'credit' not 'credit card' Agreement, and no Terms or Conditions, and no repayment/APR details or Credit Limit? Sounds fishy... Maroondevo52, hope it's ok to borrow/modify the letter here. Am in the same situation as Bubblecat and rec'd the same reply, but no CCA, so am going to again request the CCA doc. J

Hi try to scan and post for the time being, even if illegible... J

HI Volvo The doc you signed refers to 't's and c's overleaf'...so where are these t's and c's??? Not provided Also, states 'this is a credit agreement...(not 'card')'. This makes it suspect as well. Also, no prescribed terms. Suggest request CCA again, with Terms etc from the Original at least! Hope this helps. J I' m not a lawyer.

Hi Toxicdebt Yes, good point, mine too has a reference to t's and c's, but no indication that they are located on the reverse of the Application form...so where is the link, where are these t's and c's we are signing for...etc. Also, FULL t's and c's should legally be provided methinks - how can a contract be fair and binding if the fully disclosed terms etc are not provided for the signatory at the time. This basically says - sign this 'application', we'll hold you to it, AND all the terms that we provide at some later date that you don't know about yet...er, yeah, ok, sounds reasonable...NOT! I'm sorry, this is not a legal point, my opinion, but I am fighting the battle this way. Such as 'Read condition 11 in the Terms and Conditions' (yours states this too) - the paragraph goes on to discuss Information Privacy - yet Condition 11 on the 'back' is about varying the interest rate??? Also the application (yours too) states 'Terms and Conditions provided'. However, the reverse shows 'Financial and related Conditions'...so where are the 'Terms' referred to? Hope this helps J

Hi another potentially useful letter here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/177761-recieved-mbna-cca-request.html#post1919069 at Post 7. Cheers J

Hi http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/105315-my-agreement-enforceable-useful-10.html Post 190 has a letter regarding CCA Default. I read here yesterday that online agreements after 2004 are valid without a copy in writing - worth checking that though. J

Hi Andrew1980 Were amended copies sent in response to SAR request?

Hi All (and Slick123, Thanks for the tip re requesting CCA...) A few days ago I received a reply from MBNA Thought I had posted details, but thay are not here??? OK It is similar to http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/177617-can-someone-check-cca.html Covering letter - http://a.imagehost.org/0951/img024.jpg Credit Agreement http://a.imagehost.org/0449/img025.jpg Reverse of Agreement http://a.imagehost.org/0659/img026.jpg Same deal - MBNA application is not co-signed by MBNA, Terms column is on reverse No mention of default fees. It clearly says 'application', and also 'A Credit Agreement', not 'Card Agreement'. They did reply with this within the 12 days, seems thay have a reply strategy going? The signature box - am I agreeing to be bound by the Agreement, or the Consumer Credit Act? The Application suggests by signing I am bound by the T's and C's...there is no mention of where these are to be found, or that they are overleaf. In other words, I signed an application, and did not have the Conditions, and many of the Terms, to hand at the time of signing. How is that fair? Anyhow, no scanner at present, but any help greatly appreciated. J

Hi All I wonder if a recent discovery answers this. MBNA are on a new drive to 'weed out' low and slow paying accounts, and the interest rate hike (mine too...) is their subtle way of getting the cash flowing, or highlighting potentially difficult debts and then perhaps selling them on...? The logic defies...well, logic. There is another post somewhere on this same topic, same lot. They are morally bankrupt. J

Hi... looks like MBNA have a'bundle' system going on, I received basically the same. The Request is not signed and dated by MBNA, although this could easily be remedied. In the signature box, the statement...are we agreeing to be bound by the Agreement, or the Consumer Credit Act? On reverse, Terms have been provided but 'conditions' agreed to are...where? Also, if the t and c's are the same as mine, there is no mention of any default or penalty fee, should a payment not take place...? Does not say 'Credit Card Agreement'... Is a 'Request'...? Grey areas, many questions... J

Hi RB2010 Reckon you've done well to bring this situation to light on these Forums. There is much useful knowledge from a lot of good and helpful people here. You need to start a new Thread for your situation, perhaps a Moderator will move this post. This will help highlight your situation, and keep it focussed. Check the 'How do I' on the main Forums page. The first main things to attend to are - Your Consumer Credit Agreement from B,O and S - if they are handling your debt, they need to prove to you (and a Court, perhaps) that there does actually, still, exist a real, actual and 'enforcable' Credit Agreement between parties. This costs £1, takes 12 days initially, and if not - where is the contract between you? In not being able to show this, does the debt exist? See Letter N, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/consumer-forums-website-questions/53182-cant-find-what-youre.html As you have done this, if the CCA doc is not returned to you, the account is in dispute...why continue to pay an account in dispute if there is no contract provided as requested? There is much advice about this process if you search the forums and do a couple of hours reading. Also - don't sign your 'true' signature as banks etc have been known to use this if they have no copy of the original. Write, don't call - easily tracked and recorded. Get all your payment agreements, etc, in writing. Don't take calls, really. These guys can't keep calling you, it's basically harassment. There is a formal method of getting a list of charges against the account, which may help lower the debt, as many charges have been legally deemed unfair. This is a Subject Access Request, costs £10 and must be honoured by 'them' within 40 days'. These things may help you seize back control from the harassers. Hopefully others here with no doubt more knowledge can also advise you. Really do wish you good luck! J

Quite, Birchave0...??? However, have commented elsewhere the Law is an ass, no good or bad, etc, thus here we is, de jure. ihpj, is that all you have received, the 2 x .jpg's posted. There really is no reference to t's and c's, and it clearly states the application is to help them decide whether to enter into any agreement... Did the card itself arrive with any t's and c's? Did you sign something to accept the card? Did they not reply to your CCA with any t's and c's? J2020

Hi Sammy960 CCA - yes! If they cannot show they actually have an proper, and original, Consumer Credit Agreement with you, well what are they enforcing? This needs to be supplied to you in 12 working days from receipt of your request, so get it off quick. If not, they are in default, and the Agreement is in dispute. If and when it turns up, scan and post a link here so those in the know might have a look and advise. Letter N is here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html Also send a Subject Access Request, this requires them to show all transactions against the account - you may be able to claim penalty charges back from them. They have 40 days to comply with this request. If you read through the forums here try searching for similar cases, you will learn much! Advice - everything in writing keep records and get post 'signed for' don't phone them don't talk to them don't sign anything you send them with you 'accurate' signature Good luck. J2020

I had to have a chuckle... reading through the alleged, accompanying t and c's (on the back?..) there is no mention of penalty fees should I fail to pay according to their demands. Can I therefore write to them and request the refund of ALL these fees over the years, in light of this? I can imagine the reply... J2020

Hi Slick132, Sorry, missed your last post. Update - Have CCA'd, and next week will SAR both Barclaycard and MBNA, so that is at least a month away. No CCA from Barc as yet, however MBNA have replied - in a fashion. Please check out the post at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/174370-mbna-cca-request-australia.html#post1902347, if you have any advice, fantastic. No, address is a PO Box in Australia, for all. Am waiting for Barc to respond to the CCA request. I have little idea of charges, would say hundred plus? Same for MBNA. Awaiting SAR to clarify this. Regards J2020 PS I have some good memories of The Planet, playing cricket in the summer evenings. Lovely. The Rec, though, not sure about that wicket!!

Hi All, Today 6/1/09 recieved a letter and a copy of my original MBNA Classic Card Application from 2001, with my signature on it. I will get this scanned and post it here soon, but a couple of pointers initially could be helpful: Letter states 'Thanks for your request. In accordance with sect. 78 etc, we enclose a copy of the credit card agreement (original and current) including applicable terms and conditions, and statement. If anything needs clarifying etc...' K. Ofuu pp Ben Shaw, Compliance Dept. OK - enclosed is: p1 - MBNA Classic Card Application Form, code at base is NS010911/N-8392-1 p2 (the reverse of p1) is a page of blurb for MBNA 'Confidence', 'Service', comparisons with other cards, and a long side column of Financial and Related Conditions (which might be legible with some magnification). Code at base of page is LA-8392-1.9/14.9-10-01-C p3 - is a letter from Sean Humphreys - 'Please find enclosed a copy of your current t &c. You can view your account online etc etc' There follows 3 x pages of t and c's, form no: NDI001-AAAJ. They have then added copies of most recent statement. Does this initially mean anything to anyone? It is clearly an 'application' form... I have about a week to get decisive about this. Many thanks, J2020

Hi ihpj, ...well, you've commenced the battle, you will have to wait for the enemy to step up. You borrowed £9k, I'm sure they'll be in touch! J2020

Hi All Wow, I thought Monument were the leaders with 29.9%, but that takes the golden biscuit! Sorry to hear it. Without your signature, there is no contract. The previous, or existing one should be the applicable agreement. They can however alter the terms, according to the t's & c's, so perhaps the interest rate will unfortunately be variable. However: Unfair contract terms guidance 52 Group 10: Supplier's right to vary terms generally – paragraph 1(j) of Schedule 2 Schedule 2, paragraph 1, states that terms may be unfair if they have the object or effect of: (j) enabling the seller or supplier to alter the terms of the contract unilaterally without a valid reason which is specified in the contract. This may help, it's from http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/reports/unfair_contract_terms/oft311.pdf, relating to varying contract terms. A tangent question - I also recieved no change of ownership letter when my account was sold to Aviemore by HFC in 2007/2008, whenever. I have paid out and closed the account, but now want to S.A.R. someone for the charges. Question - who do I SAR, HFC or Aviemore, who had the account for only a couple of months? If it goes into next year, which it will, will BoS be handling this? Cheers all, J2020

Hi Wilkinss208 Been a while since you posted - any update re your pursuit of HFC? I am thinking of chasing them for hammering me with charges over the last 2 years - any news appreciated?!?!? J2020

Thanks reallymadwoman, advice appreciated. Yes have consulted many posts here, and come to that conclusion...the law is on our side, so will give them fair time, then...nothing! Seems it's best not to stir things up, or forewarn 'them', so will await the communications, then send a suggestion that account is in dispute. I will play the SAR ace after that... J2020