arrow/eversheds CCJ's?/CO - old Paragon loan from 2006 - now Stat Demand ???

[dinozzo]

Hello all,

 

please help if you can before I have a breakdown.

 

last week i came home to hand delivered letter from direct and legal telling me they had tried to serve me a stat demand. As I wasn't in they would call back today. The demand is on behalf of Arrow.

 

I can guess what it's for but won't know for certain till he drops it off.

 

I'm in such a state. I've just been diagnosed as Bipolar and have been ill with depression and what now appears to have been mania for many years. I'm just starting medication but this is proving hard to deal with. What can i do?

 

btw-

I think this is a really old debt that a new company have taken over

I also think I had a ccj for it in 2000

this company then got a new ccj last year.

 

I don't think it all adds up

 

Surely if i can demonstrate I can pay by suitable monthly payments they can't prove insolvency?

 

My mortgage is up to date and I just got finance for a vehicle

 

Please tell me I can sort this!!!

 

[42man]

Hi Dinozzo....welcome to the CAG forums, please try and relax as you are amonst others who are/have been in similar situations as yourself....may I ask what the debt is for ? To set aside a stat demand, you need to substantially dispute the debt, (whether it be because there is no agreement or it is improperly executed, whether the debt contains significant charges, defaults are not compliant etc etc....

 

Have a read through here too - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/

[42man]

Did you defend the CCJ at the time ? Have you been making payments towards the CCJ ?

[dinozzo]

I think its for a personal loan from 1998 or 1999.

I honestly can't remember what payments and when but i do know this is not a company i've ever dealt with before. I was not brilliant with this sort of thing when I was ill.

[42man]

If it was me in your position Ian....I would send a SAR (subject access request) to the original creditor, unfortunately this will cost £10, but hopefully you will know where you stand, this one below is a good one to use - send £10 in postal orders and send by recorded delivery, they have to respond to your request in 40 days

 

Data Protection Act 1998

 

Subject Access Request

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

 

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

3. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR.

4. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

5. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

6. Details of any collection charges added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

7. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

8. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

9. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

10. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

(sign your name, but pot lots of crosses through it so it can't be lifted)

 

ALSO

 

It might also be worth sending a consumer credit agreement request by recorded delivery (you will need to enclose a £1 postal order too)....

 

send letter 'N' from here to whoever owns the debt now

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

[dinozzo]

Not sure I know who the original one is. can arrow or whoever provide this info?

[42man]

Arrow are highly unlikely to want to provide this information to you and why would they....

[dinozzo]

then how can they provide the original to prove i owe any money?

 

i

[42man]

If there are 2 CCJ's then all they will need to enforce is the judgment.

[dinozzo]

seriously how can they prove i owe anything?

 

But how can they have a 2nd judgement?

 

Surely they are remiss in not using the powers of the court.

 

And it is my understanding that you cannot have 2 for one debt

 

I'll post details when the demand is dropped off later

[42man]

If you cannot substantially dispute the debt and apply to set the demand aside (paying towards it on a regular basis is NOT enough to set aside) then the demand will stand and they will petition for bankruptcy.

 

Plus if you actually show you are fighting this (and you didn't defend the CCJ's) then bear in mind you will be fighting an opposing solicitor and a judge who in the light of very little in the way of any dispute/s may not allow a demand or a bankruptcy petition to be set aside...

[dinozzo]

Then I'm screwed?

 

Does the fact that my illness prevented me even opening letters let alone disputing them have any bearing?

 

Is it possible this is a warning shot?

 

will they want to negotiate a repayment plan?

[42man]

If you can provide substantial medical proof re envelopes then you could probably set aside the original CCJ's also....

 

If they are hand delivering a stat demand it sounds to me like they are pretty serious...

[dinozzo]

I'm sure my doctor could oblige. The fact the guy left it a week seems less than urgent. What would my doctor need to say?

 

And when i'm up i'm this-

 

This "glorious scattering of money" can take many forms:

1. It may be wild shopping sprees with a self-medicating overtone.

2. It may be crazy investments when our bipolar grandiosity is telling us we can do no wrong.

3. It is not always about a spending spree - Patty Duke did her share of bipolar exessive spending, which she describes candidly in her autobiography - but the best example of how bipolar screwed up her relationship with money was Patty asking two strangers she literally met in a parking lot to become her business managers (no prizes for guessing how that worked out!)

4. It may be extravagant gifts to family, friends or charity - again arising from manic grandiosity.

Which is almost followed by a low that means I'm afraid to open post. But when high I just ignored it.

 

The paper work from arrow and eversheds say this is for Paragon in 2006. I can only assume paragon bought the debt because I have never heard of them.

 

I

 

Ok I've sent this and a subject access request.

 

xxxx

xxxxx

xxxx

Reference: xxxxxxx and Eversheds- xxxxxxxx

30th December 2008

 

Arrow Global Receivables Management Ltd

57 - 61 Mortimer Street

London

W1W 8HS

 

Dear Arrow Global Receivables Management Ltd:

Subject: Paragon Personal Finance/Loan

 

Due to my bipolar disorder I haven’t opened any mail from yourselves or any other company for several years now. However, I am now being treated and with support am finally going through important mail. Due to my illness and inability to deal with issues such as this I will be looking to set aside any judgments and or statutory demands made upon me. Had I been well enough previously I would have taken this action long ago. Despite my illness I know I have never dealt with you or paragon and as such-

 

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company. I require you to supply the following documentation before I correspond further on this matter.

 

You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 – (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit). I enclose a cheque to the value of £1.00 in payment of the statuary fee. This is not to be applied as any kind of payment to the disputed account.

 

A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

 

You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

As you are aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate will be both vigorously defended and contested.

 

Communication will be in writing only.

 

Personal visits by Arrow Global Receivables Ltd or its agents are refused.

 

Yours faithfully

 

After much thought I think that due to my illness and the fact I just couldn't open any mail I need to fight this and even push to have the ccj removed

 

If this company who have issued a stat demand have secured it against the house via court order does that mean they have security and can't ask for the stat demand?

 

The wording seems like this is the case anyone help?

 

This would be good news i thinkI

 

A charge on the property is what they have.

 

Surely that's a security?

 

 

This is a typical response from bipolar sufferers I just got from the net and is very much how it was for me-

 

When I am depressed, I waste money and budget poorly. Many times not paying bills when due. There were times I thought I may have to have someone handle my finances. I tended to not open mail, mainly bills or official letters, fearing bad news or something I could not afford to pay.

[42man]

I'm afraid you can't really ask for the 'deed' of assignment as this is a confidential document between the original creditor and the debt collection agency, you should change this to read 'notice' of assignment...

[42man]

So they do have a charge on the property ?.....as mentioned before have you made any payments against the CCJ order ?....

[dinozzo]

Yes a charge and no, no payments. I was unaware of it until my wife helped me open all the mail

 

I

 

ok will do

 

I

[Barclaysbunny]

Hi

Just wondering how you got on? Did you get served with the Stat demand? have you been in touch with the sols that served it?

I'm asking because stat demands have certain time-lines that are important - and if you don't deal with them, the outcome can be sticky.

Have you applied to have it set aside?

Have you made an arrangement to make payments?

Have they accepted it?

Have they spoken to you?

Have you now sent your subject access request off?

[cadencealex]

As you have a serious mental illness, you can have all of the debt wiped out subject to medical reports.

 

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Usually a 4 month stay in the psychiatric unit does the trick, but I note that a report from the Dr will suffice these days

 

So chillax

[dinozzo]

Hi,

 

my wife acted on my behalf and an arrangement was made and accepted.

 

Because of my illness we're looking into setting aside CCJs from past. Think this is possible?

 

Ian

[Viscount Stair]

I'm glad things seem to be getting on track. I hope that the treatment goes well for you.

[Barclaysbunny]

Hi,

Because of my illness we're looking into setting aside CCJs from past. Think this is possible?

Hi

I actually had a look into this today.

It might be a treck, but would be worth it.

Under the Mental Health Act, a person suffering under a serious mental illness cannot be held liable for entering into contracts etc, if the illness took away their capacity to sign.

If you have a CPN or your psych, who can agree that at the time of either entering into the agreements that led to debt (if, for instance, you were going through a high and spent all your money and got loans on top - a usual sign) then those agreements can be set aside. In addition, though someone else would have to agree with me on this, I would expect that a court would have sympathy and might consider that you did not participate in court action and have not previously brought a set aside because of your illness (you'd normally have to have brought one within 30 days). However, if you can anul the original debt because the debt was not enforceable, then I think there are grounds for appeal - but this would depend on:

1. When were the agreements? The further away the harder it will be

2. Can you prove that you were suffering under your illness at the time of signature (ie. were you sectioned shortly after? Can your CPN/psch agree?)?

3. When were the CCJs entered?

I would call MIND or CAB or speak to your CPN and seek specialist mental health legal advce. I don't know where you are, but most large towns/cities have at least one very good mental health law firm. Go to the law society find a solicitor website as a last resort.

Good luck - you sound like you're starting to get on top. If you need the nitty gritty of the law, give me a shout and I'll dig it out for you.