THE JD WILLIAMS EXPOSE - Chapter 1

[gyzmo]

I doubt it, NOTW and the rest of that group do a lot of ads for N Brown group in their papers. Anyway, why in a newspaper when you can read it here!

[gyzmo]

Just on the point of pricing, readers of this forum may have come across my caveats of sale prices. It so happens that I came across JDWs own view on this matter, quoted here in it's entirety:

 

We always strive to bring our customers the best possible offers and deals whilst ensuring to operate fair commercial practices without misleading our customers.

Where we detail price reductions on our web-site the following pricing policy shall apply:

The “WAS” price shown next to an item on this website is the highest price at which the item has been offered for sale in the last 12 months by us or one of our sister company publications (details on request). Some items have been offered for sale at a price lower than the ‘WAS’ price during the last 12 months but, unless otherwise indicated, the “NOW” price shown is the lowest price at which the item has been offered by us. Details of intervening prices are available on request. In all cases the “WAS” price will have applied for a continuous period of 28 days or more.

 

Now if anyone can make sense of that gobbledegook please let me know. Unfortunately, it is allowed under the new CPUTRs. The guidance produced states uncategorically that this wording is unfair (or rather that the method is). Alas, the legal position of the guidance has been removed. Cheers Europe!

 

The result? Spy tells me of someone (s)he dealt with a few weeks back who complained of an item advertised on sale. However, this person, being methodical in keeping documents (or just slovenly), claimed that the price had ALWAYS been that price in every catalogue. SPY, after looking at company records, agrees.

 

So there you go.

[gyzmo]

Delivery times.

 

SPY tells me that the majority of complaints received relate to delivery. Usually late ones.

 

JDW et al make much of their delivery time frames - 5 - 7 days, standard, "a little bit longer" for bigger items (those sent direct from the manufacturer, although this includes, errr, aftershaves), as well as it's priority delivery service (just two days!).

 

All well and good you would think. But it seems that some doublethink is involved here.

 

The problem, from what I have seen and have been told, is what is said and what is done.

 

The website(s) state (in the T&Cs and when ordering) that delivery times refer to them starting from the date the order is placed. However, SPY tells me that staff are told to take it from the date that good are despatched.

 

And, unsurprisingly, a lot of goods are despatched sometime after they are ordered. So what effect does this have?

 

Well DSRs are quite clear - you should get the goods when you are told you will. But JDW seems to operate a double standard. They take the time, despite what they say on their website, from when despatched. The two are entirely different. Now it may not really matter to many, but there are quite a lot of people, I am informed, who see the published info and order, only to complain and be told that the despatch date is the measure, not the order.

 

SPY tells me of many people who have ordered Xmas gifts as fr back as October and have yet to receive them as they are not in stock. That's another matter altogether.

 

I will hopefully be able to cover this in my next post in what it means for you.

[gyzmo]

Well, SPY seems to have been spooked (Spooks - spy - geddit? Ah well...).

 

Apparently, someone has said something and Spy is fearing for continued employment. Who said what I know not. But I was hoping for this to go on for some time longer. it seems not

 

So a summary of what I have found:

 

Advertising

Misleading seems to be a good word.

 

Promises of delivery times from date of order (when in practice it is from date of despach of goods which can be weeks and even months later).

 

Discount codes seem not to be added unless you tell them (apparently they don't get added on at all).

 

Freebies seem to be far short of the number of people who apply for them, Apparently they run out very quickly of free gifts, but even so still send out leaflets offering them.

 

Prices are another. SPY has told me that different catalogues in the group charge different prices, and sales prices run at the same time as normal prices. Also, the deduction for VAT had to be applied for, but is now apparently included in the online and catalogue price. Except, err, the prices are the same if not more, meaning that JDW have increased their prices. This will be interesting if comparing them to provious prices at the higher VAT rate and seeing if the overall discount is what it claims to be.

 

Various other offers have to be requested. For example, there is apparently free P&P with first order plus 10% off. Though widely advertised, it generally is not done unless requested.

 

Ordering and delivery.

 

I've already mentioned delivery times being falsley advertised. But even so there are other problems. I am informed that the company's online system differs from the parcel tracker system of the courier - often with one completely conflicting with the other. There are apparently a number of complaints with delivery companies leaving goods in "secure places" despite requests not to.

 

Charges, fees etc.

 

Well there are quite a few. PPI being out on without request (and not being refunded when complained about), TWO lots of charges for late payments, interest being added for things that are specifically exluded. And you can, apparently, forget a refund unless you get a nice advisor.

 

Returning goods.

 

Not an easy thing. The 28 day refund is actually 14 days (and 14 for delivery to depot) otherwise its nearly £3.00 per item in charges. Then there are the exclusions they put on. Whilst these are apparently limited to their own returns policy, staff are not told, and the wording also does not differentiate between statutory returns and own policy returns. And they actively insist that once 12 months are up - tough!

 

Keeping you informed.

 

Not something JDW is very good at apparently. Order being cancelled? First you knwo about it is when you call up asking where your goods are. They don't tell you its been cancelled despite the requirement to do so. Seems to be endemic through the company. I am told of their returns "investigation" (for sent or returned goods going missing) taking 28 days, btu often going twice that period before anyone bothers investigating. That's what I'm told anyway.

 

There also seems to be a lot of complaints from people ordering a catalogue but not realising they are applying fo credit. Now I know the company has had its wrists slapped for this by the ASA. Seems things have not improved. And, people are also not being told their application has been accepted, and as soon as they place an order, it gets cancelled!

 

Debt.

 

Don't get me started. It is not something SPY is involved in, but their debt collection teams seem to be little better than sharks - except a shark might spare you. From what I have heard, they are bordering on the right side of the law - just. It sounds like the usual money grabbing couldn't give a toss we come to expect from companies. But apparently staff are ruthless if for their ignorance of the law.

 

Sorry guys and guyesses, but that's it. Unless SPY comes back to me with more info, I can't do any more except pose as a customer myself.

 

Now then..... where's my pen and paper and the phone. I wanna catalogue!

[gyzmo]

NOT!

[gyzmo]

Just got a cal from SPY who has now got a new job. And thanks to SPY for providing me with some rather interesting standard response emails that the company uses (ones which SPY has actually received as a customer of the company and not as an employee I might add - so if N Brown group is reading this and fearing confidentially breach - tough! A customer is perfactly entitled to put their emails on here!)

 

Thanks to this info (some of which is rather shocking) I shall be able, at some point, to devise a few appropriate responses to make sure that this catalogue knows it's place and that it cannot treat its customers with the contempt it seems to.

 

Thanks again to SPY for providing all this info and good luck in the new job (Her Maj's Constabulary, no less - going from working for undesirables to nabbing them!).

[roundabout]

deff subbing:D

[gyzmo]

Right, lets make a start. Can't get all the letters done in one go, and they will need some padding out, but I'll try my best.

 

I'll do separate posts for different areas, such as returning items, items not being received etc - should make it easier to follow.

 

With each letter or email, it is advisable to put at teh beginning or end "YOU MUST IMMEDIATELY PASS THIS EMAIL TO AN APPROPRIATE PERSON OR DEPARTMENT IF YOU DO NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND THE LEGISLATION REFERRED TO OR IF YOU ARE NOT AUTHORISED OR CAPABLE OF CARRYING OUT MY INSTRUCTIONS"

 

PLEASE DO NOT POST ON HERE UNTIL THREAD IS COMPLETE:)

Edited February 6, 2009 by gyzmo

[gyzmo]

GOODS NOT RECEIVED / LATE / WRONG ITEM / CANCELLED.

 

 

1. ORDER CANCELLED BY JDW. The reason for this is usually the item not being available or it has been cancelled by credit control dept. Quite often they do not tell you it has been cancelled and no refund is given unless you query it. You may get a standard email / letter which advises that the item has been cancelled and suggests you order an alternative from their site. In other words, some ilk has just sent a standard response.

 

On [date] I ordered several items under order number XXXXXX. I have received an ackowledgement order which is attached.

 

I note, on checking my account / phoning your customer services that this order (or part of) has been cancelled without my being informed.

 

You are reminded of the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2003, specifically Regulation 19(2)(a) and 19(2)(b), which require that you inform me of such a cancellation and re-imburse any sum paid.

 

I now require that you provide a full refund and an explanation as to why you have not informed me of the cancellation, or the reason for the cancellation.

 

The refund must be made as soon as possible, and at the most within 30 days. You must not delay payment by virtue of the 30 day deadline being available to you, which is a maximum period.

 

I require acknowledgement of such a refund, and if any delay is forseen, I shall also require an explanation.

 

Should no acknowledgement or refund be forthcoming, I shall inform Consumer Direct / Trading Standards of your conduct in this matter.

 

 

2. ORDER IS LATE. This is a common problem apparently. There are the usual delays that can be expected and indeed forgiven, but there are many a time where a promised date is given which you rely on and need. This is especially so where you pay extra for "next day delivery" (which invariably is not). This letter focuses on express deliveries when they are late. You need to keep a screenprint of the delivery time stated as evidence, as well as a print of any statement like "Get it next day", as their standard response is that they allow extra time (so next day delivery can be 48 hours!). The time of order is as important as the date.

 

I ordered the following item(s) from your website on (date) at (time) on special delivery. Your confirmation (attached as a screenprint) shows this. The stated delivery time expired on (date) and I have yet to receive the items.

 

[if you want to keep the goods] As you have failed to comply with your contractual obligations, I require that you re-imburse the additional cost of the express delivery. Please note that you provided a specific date by which the goods were to be sent. It is not acceptable to state that uou allow additional time in case od delays or for any other reason. Should you not provide a refund of this additional cost, further action shall be sought.

 

[if you do not want to keep the goods, refer to section (TO BE UPDATED)]

 

3.WRONG ITEM. This can happen for various reasons, amongst which the most common must be a cock-up in the warehouse, either the item labelled wrongly or the wrong item put in the parcel. Such things can be dealt with by a simple letter / email requiring a refund. Another instance however is down to substitute goods being sent. This usually happens where, for example, the item you want is out of stock. However, under DSRs, you need to agree to this. Such agreement is usually contained within the contract you signed, and there should be an option to opt out (as well as your attention being drawn to this). There should also be notice sent to you with the goods informing you that the item is a substitute which can be returned (at their cost regardless). It is unknown however how well this process goes. Here is a letter to deal with it.

 

Sirs, I ordered [items] from you on [date]. I have received the order today and have noticed that you have substituted item [details] with [details]. Whilst the DSRs do permit this, it does so only with my permission, which has not been given. I therefore require that you no longer send substitute items to me.

 

With regards to the substitute item you have sent, it is being returned to you, at your cost [either use a prepaid label or request a courier], and I require a refund immediately.

 

 

4.NOT RECEIVED. This is where the goods have been confirmed as sent, the date by which they should have arrived has passed and you still have not got the items. Whatever has happened to them, be it they have simply got lost, been left by your front door and pinched, it is not your problem in terms of getting your goods. And you presumably want a refund (you may want a replacement but this deals with refunds). The countdown to the end of the cancellation period starts when you get the goods (and required info), so any time before then you can cancel and get a refund which should be given ASAP, and within 30 days at the latest. JDW however, think different and will send you standard form requesting they investigate. Whilst this is OK and perfectly legit, they will also use it as a reason NOT to refund you until the investigation is complete. This is not permitted, and here’s the letter to deal with it.

 

Sirs,

 

I ordered [details – date etc] which I was informed would be delivered to me by [date]. This date has now passed and I have not received the goods. As such, you may treat this as my written notice of cancellation under r. 10 of the DSRs.

 

Under these regulations, you are required, as stated in r.14(3), to provide a refund as soon as possible and in any case, within 30 days. I note that you have sent a form requesting my permission to investigate the missing goods. Whilst I am happy for you to carry out your investigation, you are prohibited from using it as a reason not to re-imburse me. If you are capable, without reference to the investigation, of carrying out the refund now, you must do so. If you suspect or believe any dishonesty or other unlawful activity, you must take appropriate action, but this does not permit you to withhold my monies on belief of some other tort being committed.

 

If you do not, or if you cannot provide an adequate reason for not providing the refund, I shall report the matter to Trading Standards for investigation. Further, should you fail to provide a refund once 30 days have expired, I shall be entitled to seek remedy in court which shall include costs and interest.

Edited February 10, 2009 by gyzmo

[gyzmo]

CANCELING YOUR ORDER / RETURNING GOODS - CHANGE OF MIND.

 

This can get confusing as you have your statutory rights and the rights granted by the home approval policy. As such, I have split this into two parts. This part deals with goods that you have sent back as a change of mind. The other part deals with goods sent back due to a fault or not being as described or other breach. The distinction is important as the home approval policy differs to the regs.

 

CANCELLATIONS / RETURNS – CHANGE OF MIND (NOT faulty / misdescribed)

 

Right, this bit is for where you have simply changed your mind. Like a lot of companies, JDW has its own home approval policy. This is stated as being 28 days, but is actually 14 days as they require 14 days for a return to show on the system. Any returns beyond this are met with a charge of £2.95 I believe per item. Now just to clarify, it’s fine for a company to have its own returns policy, but such rights are additional to your statutory ones. Indeed, JDW in its own returns policy does give you a few favours. A broken glass item, for example, need not be sent back due to the possibility of injury. In other areas though, they fall foul. Please note that you will need to be familiar with the exceptions to the right of return under the DSRs.

 

1. LETTER DEMANDING REFUND. This is a one size fits all letter where you have requested a refund but not got it. Other letters in the above section include more detailed wording and you may want to consider adding a couple of the paragraphs depending on the situation.

 

Sirs,

 

I sent to you a letter / email giving notification of my cancellation of [order details] as required by the DSRs. To date, I have yet to receive a refund.

 

Your attention is drawn to the requirements of the DSRs which state that a refund must be given as soon as possible, and in any case within 30 days.

 

I require that you reimburse me within 7 days to prevent legal action being taken against you, which shall include, but not be limited to, costs, interest and damages at the discretion of the court.

 

I look forward to your re-imbursement within 7 days, and I have reported you activities to Consumer Direct.

 

 

 

2. CANCELLING ITEMS NOT COVERED UNDER HOME APPROVAL. JD Williams does not include certain items under its returns policy. These include items that are also excluded from the DRSs, but also include a few other things such as camcorders, mobile phones, TVs, white goods, earrings and various other items (some stated as being for hygiene reasons). They can, however, say that such items can only be returned, for example, if a protective cover has not been taken off. If you have bought such goods and wish to return them, but the company is saying you cannot, here is what to tell them:

 

Sirs,

 

I purchased item [details] from you on [date]. I now wish to return this item to you for a refund as per my right under r. 10(1) of the DSRs.

 

Please note that this serves as notification of cancellation required under the same Regulations.

 

I wish to draw your attention to the fact that this return is NOT under your home approvals policy, which is additional to my statutory rights, and you therefore cannot purport to exclude any return where the reasons conflict with my statutory rights.

 

[if the item is, ahem, personal or comes with hygiene issues, such as earrings, underwear or naughty toys, then include the following as well]

 

This includes any refusal to accept a return on the grounds of hygiene [or whatever excuse]. The DSRs do not make any exception for the return of such items, nor do they consider the resaleability of items as a reason for refusing to accept a return. Further, you have not stated in the contract that special care should be taken of these items – a notice of special care.

 

I therefore require that you reimburse me as soon as possible, and in any case within 30 days [bUT SEE ABOVE SECTION ON GETTING RE-IMBURSEMENT AND TIMEFRAMES].

Edited February 10, 2009 by gyzmo

[version302003]

removed

Edited March 20, 2009 by version302003