Halifax - Old Mortgage Account - Help Required Please

[hagenuk]

Hi Everyone

 

Just received my information from Halifax. I actually paid this mortgage off in 2004 but I know I paid through the nose in charges.

 

A number of points to raise here then a few questions.

 

Using the DPA SAR template I specifically requested

"a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation"

Yet Halifax have seen fit to supply me with account reports

"for the dates specified."

I did not specify any dates and had taken out that mortgage in 1992. Notwithstanding Halifax second-guessing my requirements and ignoring the specifics of my letter they have not provided even six years, choosing to begin the reports in October 2001.

 

Now to the account reports. Typically they are full of jargon and abbreviations which mean nothing to me.

 

A few questions however. There are dates and charges scattered across the pages, printed landscape and as mentioned, difficult to follow. There are two reason codes that I am unsure of, they are below.

Sundry - a variable amount, can I claim this?

Deeds Despatch Fee - always £50, can I claim this?

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

[jonni2bad]

bump

[TideTurner]

I received similar details from the Halifax and mine was in dollars. I asked them to provide details of work carried out on my account and details of each charge. After some silence, I told them I would complain to the Information Commissioners Office (Data Protection) and they provided a breakdown of each charge (quickly put together). I was on the phone every other day until they gave me it. They broke down the sundry charges into sub categories like CACS Letter sent etc. There are 6 charges for a CACS letter (standard letter) for £100.00. £50.00 for CACS Tel Call to client!

 

I am about to go to Court based on the info I got through persistence.

 

BTW - my account was administered by Birmingham Mudshires whose system uses CACS actions - Tel in/out - Letter in/out etc.

 

Push for an expansion of general descriptions.

[TideTurner]

Hagenuk, did you take out the mortgage with the Halifax or one of the companies they took over, like Credit Agricole Personal Finance Plc or Birmingham Midshires?

[hagenuk]

Hi

 

I actually took it out with The Leeds in 1992 and at some point since Halifax took them over.

 

I have been forced to issue a claim against them for Data Protection Act non-compliance, which they have ignored therefore I will go for judgement now.

 

In addition I have begun a claim for the charges that I am aware of.

 

They really do need to get a grip.

[noopin]

Hi Hagenuk, I'm in a very similar position. I had a Leeds mortgage from 1989 which became a Halifax, until 2004. I've had no reply from Halifax to either the SAR or subsequent 7 day LBA which they received on 28/9. I've no idea what sort of charges were levied. Up to now I've only made claims on c/cs and current account and can't remember what charges came with the mortgage.

I guess that, if nothing comes tomorrow morning, they'll get a non-compliance from me, too.

I shall follow your postings keenly (anything to avoid saying "with interest").

[hagenuk]

My advice would be to stay on top of this situation and not let up. Be relentless but fair, stick to your timetable and don't give an inch.

 

For your information, here are the charges that I am currently claiming for, based on the (albeit scant) information they have sent me to date.

 

Arrears Admin Fee

Sundry

Returned Cheque Fee

Deeds Despatch Fee

 

The amounts appear to be variable, in particular the "Sundry" which, given what they have chosen to call it, is not surprising.

[TideTurner]

Hagenuk, Noopin, there was a flurry of takeovers in the 90's. The Halifax were responsible for a lot of those in the late 90's. I would seriously look at your original mortgage contract. I was charged £75 in charges whilst my account was held with Credit Agricole for the first 5 years. When they were taken over by Birmingham Mudshires, the charges increased. BM were subsequently teken over by Halifax, who merged with Bank of Scotland to form HBOS. At each stage, their computer systems were updated / replaced. This is clearly shown in the different type of printouts provided after a DPA (you are entitled by law to all records they hold which contain your personal or financial information since at least 1984). At every takeover the systems changed as did the charging rates / penalties. I am about to issue, and will claim breach of contract as I didn't sign up in 1990 for what was going to occur from 1996 onwards. I have 9,500 charges and am a little bit upset, given the penalty charges represented 50% of the price the property was sold for and it was sold for £73500 the same year! Give me a shout re - takeovers - I'll let you know the company structure.

[TideTurner]

Look into your original contract and whether you provided an authority to give them the right to provide your personal or financial information to anybody else. If not, they are in breach of the Data Protection Act and should be reported to the Information Commissioners Office - and the FSA - it will not meet the ‘fit and proper person’ test to hold a consumer credit licence under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

[hagenuk]

(you are entitled by law to all records they hold which contain your personal or financial information since at least 1984).

 

Can you expand on this at all? Presumably this simply refers to information they still hold?

 

Many thanks

[TideTurner]

There may be a clause in your original mortgage agreement which allows the lender to forward your personal information to a third party or agent in the event of a default on your account. They are, however, still responsible for its security. I have made several requests to DCA's and received confirmation that my information has been removed from their systems (my information was passed to at least 36 companies which I have on a flow chart.

 

The Information Commissioners Office agrees with the lenders that information held in a physical format cannot be deemed to be kept in a 'structured' file, and therefore is not covered by the DPA. This information must be made available under disclosure rules between the two parties once proceedings have commenced.

 

As far as I am aware, historical information must be kept for the term of the mortgage, and was usually transferred to microfiche (now scanned into large document feeding scanners for old paper records) and held in a digital format. All other information (recent) is simply archived as it is already produced in a digital format.

 

Most interestingly, insist on copies of all emails held ON THE SERVER NOT ON THE PERSON DEALING'S LOCAL MACHINE. All of these are archived and may require the organisation to invoke the services of their System Administrator or outsourced IT provider (99% internal dept.) All emails are similar to threads and contain more information than normal correspondence. Each email. whether made in response or not forms a seperate document, to which you are entitled and contains a wealth of information. These ARE held in a structured format, ARE archived and show how your information has been related internally and externally. Insist on them or contact the ICO.

 

Initially, Birmingham Midshires denied all knowledge of my original Mortgagor, Credit Agricole, then admitted they had the information, and charged me £10.00 per A4 (per year) which they got from microfiche. the info provided was useless so I insisted they expanded and they did.

 

If you have received threatening letters, let the world know about it. let the DCA's know via phone, tell them the date and time of the call and make them aware they are acting illegally.

 

Sorry it's lengthy, tried to keep this short!!

[TideTurner]

Sorry, also insist on archived emails in any held in a magnetic, digital, physical or other format.

[hagenuk]

Sorry, also insist on archived emails in any held in a magnetic, digital, physical or other format.

 

The mortgage is redeemed, I paid it off back in 2004, but I do want the charges back. I am not concerned with DCA's though of course.

 

I am going to apply for judgement tomorrow, they have had long enough and perhpas now we'll see what they come up with.

[TideTurner]

Good luck Hagenuk - got that off my chest though and hopefully someone may find it useful. Let us know how you get on

[noopin]

Still no statements from Halifax for my mortgage and secured loan. As they're now past the 7 days of the LBA, I emailed them, giving until friday before putting in the N1 (order under s.7 & s.15(2)), which they've acknowledged and promised to deal with promptly.

We'll see what happens next.

[noopin]

Well, the "statements" arrived this morning after my gee-up email. As with Hagenuk's, these are almost completely impenetrable, but after close scrutiny, I found the charges in a corner. They sent 9 pages of explanatory notes, no doubt useful to a forensic accountant.

[hagenuk]

Did you receive them all?

 

Because I have now received the same data FOUR times!

 

Their ineptitude really does know no bounds. How hard can it be?

[noopin]

They seem to run from Oct 2001 only, just like Hagenuk's. TBH I'll deal with these only, as the likely hassle of going back another year seems more trouble than it's worth...though reading this back, why should I let the buggers get away with that? Incidentally, can we claim for the deeds despatch fee?

[hagenuk]

Interesting question, I would originally have thought not, but then does it really cost £50 to despatch deeds?

[noopin]

Just as a matter of interest, how do people manage to reach some of the figures they're claiming in charges? I always thought that I was fairly slapdash in my financial affairs eg. in 41/2 years of Halifax mortgage - 8 arrears admin fees and 1 sundry. I know I had a lot of letters (the "statements" say these were generated by my local branch) and can only assume that they are included in the two £115 fees. My total is £430, which a year ago I would have thought was a sizeable sum. Some people seem to have averaged around £30pm. for 6 years. I'm not making any judgements here, god knows I'm aware of how hard times can floor anyone, it's just (morbid) fascination with how these things can build up, and ensuring that I haven't missed anything on these Halifax printouts!

[nigel1804]

This is probably mine are taking so long to get mine too went to 1990 with leeds perm until 2004.so lets see what happens now.regards nigel

[TideTurner]

If you can, call them tomorrow or asap and insist on speaking to somebody who is dealing. Call your local branch and ask to be put through to customer services, don't call the stupid robot lady at the maximum rate. There's also 0800 no's available for the same people in the yellow pages. Insist on going through. Why is this taking so long? As a customer - give me full details of my transactions! It is merely a print out - they will claim these are held on microfiche if a long standing account - but it takes minutes to print this and send it to you. BTW - received document today where Gnatwest claim ALL documents incoming and outgoing are scanned and stored digitally.

Don't leave it - insist on the info.

[noopin]

Just an update - I haven't had a reply to my prelim, not even a bullsh*t letter; they've had 17 days since I sent it, so a 14 day LBA is ready to go tomorrow.

[darling]

Hi Hagenuk I too am claiming for an old Halifax Mortgage Oct 1994 - Oct 2002. Have tried calling them various times for an explanation as to what the 'sundry' entry is for. The last guy is spoke to said we can't really tell you anything as its and old account but I think its a charge. Well thats good enough for me so I'm going to add it to my spreadsheets along with the others that you mention in no:7.

Anyway I shall keep watching your thread with interest hun xxx.

[TideTurner]

Spoke to another organisation today, the lady was very helpful and said they are struggling to handle volume of enquiries. Keep to deadlines as they are legally obligated to respond.