CCA from MBNA is it valid? Please help.

[bladeboy]

Received, via Cabot, a 'copy' of my CCA.

 

On the page where the signatures are I notice that I have signed in two boxes, they [creditor] don't appear to have signed anywhere at all.

 

There is also a bar-code type stamp and under it, on all the pages, is the text 'APPLICATION FORM'. Not sure if that's significant.

 

The purported terms and conditions appear to be on seperate pieces of paper and are also attached via photobucket.

 

They also sent a load of statement type documents through that seem to be just that - statements but the list is not complete.

 

Any ideas anyone?

 

[bladeboy]

The above might come out a bit small, will try again.

 

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn205/bladeboy2041/scan0001-1.gif

[bladeboy]

Try again, sorry.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bladeboy]

Bump

[tendogs]

subbing

[blind-as-a-bat]

How likely is it there charges in 2003 where £12 for late payment etc as thats the leval that was agreed recently isnt it?

[bladeboy]

Sorry, can you explain re the above? Are you say that they have posted/sent me current T&C's? The section with signatures on does look to be somewhat separate from the rest of the document - or am I being overly optimistic?

[blind-as-a-bat]

I cant say for sure, but yes it looks like those T&C may not be from the agreement they say you signed, or are a newer version, I cant read the signed page to see if they are tied in any way.

 

The signed document on its own is not enforceable, as it appears the prescribed terms where elswhere, the question is where? if they where on the reverse that could be enough to make it enforceable, but of course MBNA would have to prove they where part of the signed document

[bladeboy]

Other points.

 

Where is their signature?

 

All that they have sent me would not fit on 1 sheet of paper.

 

Since when has a credit limit been placed on an application form? Surely, thet determine that when and if your application is successful?

[tiokim]

I have a similar agreement and those are the present terms and conditions. The prescribed terms need to be within the four corners of the agreement anyway and not referred as separate terms and conditions. The very good news is that the default notice they issued is also defective. They have not allowed 14 clear days for you to remedy after service (2nd working day after the date of the letter) But you should not mention it to them and wait to see if they take you to court based on that notice. It would characterize the termination of the agreement and they would not be able to issue another DN and would be in a legal limbo. A defective DN is fatal and no prescribed terms within the signed part of the agreement prevents them to legally enforce this debt in court

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/145452-stayingcalm-abbey-no-cca.html

 

Have a look at link above. It will make you aware of what to expect from MBNA &Cia also has very good explanations about defective DNs. My guess is that next thing you will get is a letter from Restons solicitors.

Edited December 18, 2008 by tiokim

[rory32]

Agreements that are not signed by the creditor but only the debtor are enforceable by way of a court order only. However in order for a court order to be granted the agreement would need to contain all the prescribed terms. These prescribed terms need to be within the four corners of the agreement and not in another document entitled terms and conditions.

 

It would be difficult for them to demonstrate that the terms and conditions they have supplied are within the four corners of the agreement, particularly as they appear after the signature box.

[tiokim]

Just notice are you sure the DN issued by HFC bank is related to your MBNA card?? I have both but HFC in my case is related to a GM card. I think HFC and MBNA are different banks.

[bladeboy]

Does anyone have, or can direct me to, a good knob off letter for circs such as these?

[blind-as-a-bat]

I have a similar agreement and those are the present terms and conditions. The prescribed terms need to be within the four corners of the agreement anyway and not referred as separate terms and conditions. The very good news is that the default notice they issued is also defective. They have not allowed 14 clear days for you to remedy after service (2nd working day after the date of the letter) But you should not mention it to them and wait to see if they take you to court based on that notice. It would characterize the termination of the agreement and they would not be able to issue another DN and would be in a legal limbo. A defective DN is fatal and no prescribed terms within the signed part of the agreement prevents them to legally enforce this debt in court

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/145452-stayingcalm-abbey-no-cca.html

 

Have a look at link above. It will make you aware of what to expect from MBNA &Cia also has very good explanations about defective DNs. My guess is that next thing you will get is a letter from Restons solicitors.

 

Thanks for confiming what i thought tiokim

[tiokim]

The DN issue by HFC bank is about a personal loan not a credit card. Would you have a MBNA DN?

[42man]

You could send this one recorded -

 

I am pleased to see that you confirm this as a true copy of the original agreement executed by yourselves on the XXXXX.

 

As you must realise this agreement does not conform to sections 60(1) and 61(1) of the Consumer credit Act and is therefore unenforceable under section 127(3) of the same act.

 

 

You had until (date here) to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request and I am therefore advising that the matter is now in dispute . Whilst the matter is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, make any further charges to the account or pass the account to anybody else.

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

[bladeboy]

You guys are all stars, thanks.

 

Sent the docs to a friend of mine who's training in a solicitors office as a debt specialist.

 

He also agrees that what they've sent is no more than an applocation form.

 

Will keep you updated.

[angel_1]

hello bladeboy

 

very interesting cca, i got the same as you well it looks like that tiny bit of paper and small writing and i disputed with mbna and now sent me a final letter and referred me to fos, so i am,

 

am subscribing to your thread and if you want to see mine check out the mbna journey headed

 

take care

 

laters angel x

[Von Greenbach]

very interesting cca, and small writing

Hello angel

 

Could you please take a look at this and my comments on the thread that follow, I'd love your opinion.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1875383.html

[angel_1]

Blimey Von Greenbach

 

that is small to read, ive sent you my letter that i sent off to one of my creditors when i couldnt read what i was sent , i dont know if this will help you - sent it via private message

 

my humble opinion is that the regs do state it should be readable and legible and i also got that from trading standards when i visited them so its worth something to dispute,

 

let me know your thoughts and sorry bladeboy for inputting this on your thread,

 

off to bed now good night to all

 

laters angel x:)

[Von Greenbach]

let me know your thoughts and sorry bladeboy for inputting this on your thread

oops, I'm also sorry bladeboy

[tiokim]

Application forms are enforceable if they have all the prescribed terms within the signed part of that document so do not dismiss it based on that theory