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    • further polished WS using above suggestions and also included couple of more modifications highlighted in orange are those ok to include?   Background   1.1  The Defendant received the Parking Charge Notice (PCN) on the 06th of January 2020 following the vehicle being parked at Arla Old Dairy, South Ruislip on the 05th of December 2019.   Unfair PCN   2.1  On 19th December 2023 the Defendant sent the Claimant's solicitors a CPR request.  As shown in Exhibit 1 (pages 7-13) sent by the solicitors the signage displayed in their evidence clearly shows a £60.00 parking charge notice (which will be reduced to £30 if paid within 14 days of issue).  2.2  Yet the PCN sent by the Claimant is for a £100.00 parking charge notice (reduced to £60 if paid within 30 days of issue).   2.3        The Claimant relies on signage to create a contract.  It is unlawful for the Claimant to write that the charge is £60 on their signs and then send demands for £100.    2.4        The unlawful £100 charge is also the basis for the Claimant's Particulars of Claim.  No Locus Standi  3.1  I do not believe a contract with the landowner, that is provided following the defendant’s CPR request, gives MET Parking Services a right to bring claims in their own name. Definition of “Relevant contract” from the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4,  2 [1] means a contract Including a contract arising only when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land between the driver and a person who is-   (a) the owner or occupier of the land; or   (b) Authorised, under or by virtue of arrangements made by the owner or occupier of the land, to enter into a contract with the driver requiring the payment of parking charges in respect of the parking of the vehicle on the land. According to https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/section/44   For a contract to be valid, it requires a director from each company to sign and then two independent witnesses must confirm those signatures.   3.2  The Defendant requested to see such a contract in the CPR request.  The fact that no contract has been produced with the witness signatures present means the contract has not been validly executed. Therefore, there can be no contract established between MET Parking Services and the motorist. Even if “Parking in Electric Bay” could form a contract (which it cannot), it is immaterial. There is no valid contract.  Illegal Conduct – No Contract Formed   4.1 At the time of writing, the Claimant has failed to provide the following, in response to the CPR request from myself.   4.2        The legal contract between the Claimant and the landowner (which in this case is Standard Life Investments UK) to provide evidence that there is an agreement in place with landowner with the necessary authority to issue parking charge notices and to pursue payment by means of litigation.   4.3 Proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and country Planning Act 1990. Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under this Act and no contract can be formed where criminality is involved.   4.4        I also do not believe the claimant possesses these documents.   No Keeper Liability   5.1        The defendant was not the driver at the time and date mentioned in the PCN and the claimant has not established keeper liability under schedule 4 of the PoFA 2012. In this matter, the defendant puts it to the claimant to produce strict proof as to who was driving at the time.   5.2 The claimant in their Notice To Keeper also failed to comply with PoFA 2012 Schedule 4 section 9[2][f] while mentioning “the right to recover from the keeper so much of that parking charge as remains unpaid” where they did not include statement “(if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met)”.     5.3         The claimant did not mention parking period, times on the photographs are separate from the PCN and in any case are that arrival and departure times not the parking period since their times include driving to and from the parking space as a minimum and can include extra time to allow pedestrians and other vehicles to pass in front.    Protection of Freedoms Act 2012   The notice must -   (a) specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;  22. In the persuasive judgement K4GF167G - Premier Park Ltd v Mr Mathur - Horsham County Court – 5 January 2024 it was on this very point that the judge dismissed this claim.  5.4  A the PCN does not comply with the Act the Defendant as keeper is not liable.  No Breach of Contract   6.1       No breach of contract occurred because the PCN and contract provided as part of the defendant’s CPR request shows different post code, PCN shows HA4 0EY while contract shows HA4 0FY. According to PCN defendant parked on HA4 0EY which does not appear to be subject to the postcode covered by the contract.  6.2         The entrance sign does not mention anything about there being other terms inside the car park so does not offer a contract which makes it only an offer to treat,  Interest  7.1  It is unreasonable for the Claimant to delay litigation for  Double Recovery   7.2  The claim is littered with made-up charges.  7.3  As noted above, the Claimant's signs state a £60 charge yet their PCN is for £100.  7.4  As well as the £100 parking charge, the Claimant seeks recovery of an additional £70.  This is simply a poor attempt to circumvent the legal costs cap at small claims.  7.5 Since 2019, many County Courts have considered claims in excess of £100 to be an abuse of process leading to them being struck out ab initio. An example, in the Caernarfon Court in VCS v Davies, case No. FTQZ4W28 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated “Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones- Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates (...) in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court v Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued, he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law it is hereby declared (…) the claim is struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.”  7.6 In Claim Nos. F0DP806M and F0DP201T, District Judge Taylor echoed earlier General Judgment or Orders of District Judge Grand, stating ''It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverabl15e under the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in Parking Eye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4)) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998...''  7.7 In the persuasive case of G4QZ465V - Excel Parking Services Ltd v Wilkinson – Bradford County Court -2 July 2020 (Exhibit 4) the judge had decided that Excel had won. However, due to Excel adding on the £60 the Judge dismissed the case.  7.8        The addition of costs not previously specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.   7.9        It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).   In Conclusion   8.1        I invite the court to dismiss the claim.  Statement of Truth  I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.   
    • Well the difference is that in all our other cases It was Kev who was trying to entrap the motorist so sticking two fingers up to him and daring him to try court was from a position of strength. In your case, sorry, you made a mistake so you're not in the position of strength.  I've looked on Google Maps and the signs are few & far between as per Kev's MO, but there is an entrance sign saying "Pay & Display" (and you've admitted in writing that you knew you had to pay) and the signs by the payment machines do say "Sea View Car Park" (and you've admitted in writing you paid the wrong car park ... and maybe outed yourself as the driver). Something I missed in my previous post is that the LoC is only for one ticket, not two. Sorry, but it's impossible to definitively advise what to so. Personally I'd probably gamble on Kev being a serial bottler of court and reply with a snotty letter ridiculing the signage (given you mentioned the signage in your appeal) - but it is a gamble.  
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      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

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cca and barcays


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In the past i have read that when an agreement is eventually found the whole debt is again liable? Once they find an agreement i understood it to mean, that's it, end of. The whole debt is enforceable and therefore payable?
That's correct. The whole debt is repayable but what they can't do is state that you missed a number of repayments while they were in default and say you now have arrears of x amount due to this.

That's if you signed the back of the cheque (CCA payment only) and or added to the text of the accompanying letter 'this is to be used to CCA and not to be put towards the account.

I'm thinking later down the line, if it goes to Court, all you have is a copy of that letter and a statement from the creditor showing you made a 'payment' towards the account. A Judge is most likely going to side with the strongest evidence i would assume: That statement showing a payment?

The judge should consider the payment charged to the account (not paid to the account by the alleged debtor) as irrelevant. Below is some detail about what would amount to an acknowledgement or not of a debt.

 

The basic requirements of an acknowledgment are that it must be in writing and signed by the debtor or his agent. In this context ‘signed’ means in manuscript and not typed (see Firstpost Homes Limited v Johnson [1995] 1 WLR 1567).

 

The vital characteristic of an acknowledgement is that it must amount to an unequivocal admission that the debt remains due: Surrendra Overseas Ltd v Government of Sri Lanka [1977] 1 WLR 565. The court must construe the alleged acknowledgment as a whole – the creditor will not be allowed to pick and choose those parts of a document which suits it, while ignoring others.

 

An acknowledgment need not quantify the debt due, it is sufficient that the amount owed may be ascertained by extrinsic evidence: Dungate v Dungate [1965] 1 WLR 1477. However, a document which admits all the facts necessary to give rise to liability, but in which the debtor denies that he is in fact liable, will not amount to an effective acknowledgement.

 

To be effective, the denial must amount to a denial of liability for all times and all purposes: Bank of Baroda v Mahomed [1999] Lloyds Rep Bank 14.

 

However a statement by the debtor that he is unable to pay the debt “at the moment” will constitute an acknowledgement because it amounts to an admission that the liability exists.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Thanks for all the info.

 

Glad to hear payments wouldn't be backdated. I was going to try to put the money aside each month incase this wasn't the case and I got hit with demands for all the payments I've missed but it's impossible to do. Too many other bills hitting the door mat!

 

In my letter requesting the cca I stated that the £1.00 was to be used for the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. However I didn't write on the back of the cheque. I also didn't think about the signature on the cheque and that a postal order would be better. Oh dear.....

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In my letter requesting the cca I stated that the £1.00 was to be used for the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. However I didn't write on the back of the cheque.
What you stated in the letter is sufficient. There was no need to write on the back of the cheque.

 

I also didn't think about the signature on the cheque and that a postal order would be better. Oh dear.....
It's actually quite difficult to lift a signature off a cheque and there are always telltale signs if it has. It's not something I would lose any sleep about.

HAVE YOU BEEN TREATED UNFAIRLY BY CREDITORS OR DCA's?

 

BEWARE OF CLAIMS MANAGEMENT COMPANIES OFFERING TO WRITE OFF YOUR DEBTS.

 

 

Please note opinions given by rory32 are offered informally as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Sent Sharkleys the 'in dispute' letter on 8th January after no reply to cca request at beginnng of December. Nothing back from them yet - just the numerous calls which I haven't answered.

 

Do I just sit tight and wait for them to send my application form? Don't know if they'll even have that as it was originally Goldfish about 12 years ago so might be terms and conditions I receive.

 

Just didn't know if I should send another letter or just wait.

 

Got a letter from them about my complaint about phoning daughter's mobile. Just their usual 'looking into your complaint' letter saying they'll contact me by 24th February.

 

Many thanks!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just a quick update.

 

Still no response to my cca request of beginning of December but the phone calls continue. I decided to answer one the other day to see if I could have a bit of fun! When I told Sharkleys phone operator that the account was in dispute due to not receiving my cca she didn't know what I was talking about. She put me on hold for a couple of minutes while she spoke to her manager, then said I would need to speak to Equifax!?! You would think an organisation the size of Sharkleys could afford to give their staff proper training in these matters.

 

Starting to worry a bit about not being able to do cpr thing as I'm in Scotland. Do I have to be living in England or just be able to travel there as its only half an hour away from me. Does anyone know?

 

Many thanks!

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Hi Becca,

 

Instead of worrying about the CPR route not being available to you in Scotland, why not make a formal complaint to the ICO about Barclays failure to respond to your CCA request.

 

Have a read here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/166293-tiz-me-barclaycard-visa-3.html#post2004801

 

Gotta be worth a shot. :cool:

Edited by slick132
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  • 2 weeks later...

Quick update. Still no reply to my cca request but today received a letter from Mercers, a 'Default Notice served under section 87(i) if the Consumer Credit Act 1974. Was going to send them the letter below which has been copied from another post. Is this the right thing to do?

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE - Account number: XXXX XXXX XXXX XXXX

 

I am rather bemused as to why this account has been passed to yourselves, as it is in dispute with the **original creditor/DCA** and has been since DATE.

 

Not only is this a breach of OFT collection guidelines, but also in breach of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and Data Protection Act 1998

 

My last letter from **original creditor/DCA** was DATE and intimated that my complaint would be resolved on **DATE**. This obviously hasn’t happened.

 

As **original creditor/DCA** are now in default of my Consumer Credit Act request, OFT Collection Guidelines have breached and I consider this account to be in SERIOUS DISPUTE.

 

As you are aware, while my Consumer Credit Act request remains in default, enforcement action is NOT permitted and, under s127, this constitutes a complete defence at law.

 

I would respectfully suggest that this account is returned to the **original creditor/DCA** for resolution of these defaults and breaches, as **New DCA** cannot lawfully pursue any enforcement activities.

 

If **New DCA** chooses to ignore my dispute and attempt enforcement, I will initiate legal action and file reports with the appropriate authorities, including, but not limited to, Trading Standards, Office of Fair Trading, Information Commissioners Office, Financial Ombudsman Service and possible court action.

*SEE NEXT POST*

 

I hope that this will not be necessary and an acceptable solution can be accomplished.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter and look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully,

Edited by slick132
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Hi Becca,

 

You could add the following where I've suggested above.

 

 

Please note you may also consider this letter a statutory notice under Section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies including any defaults. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’, you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you fail to respond within 21 days, I will expect that this means you agree to remove all such data. If a Default is registered with any Credit Reference Agencies, Formal Complaints will be made as stated two paragraphs above.

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  • 1 month later...

Just a quick update.

 

Sent Mercers a letter after they sent their threat of a door step caller. The calls then started from an 0151 number instead of 0845 but weren't so frequent. Then a letter from Barclays in response to cca request stating my balance, credit limit and arrears and saying my agreement would follow. That was over a week ago and nothing yet except another letter from Mercers saying the same as their first.

 

Things then went quiet for about a week with no calls from Mercers. Got a call from an 0845 number this morning. Got so excited as I'd been missing their calls so much that I just had to answer. Told the lady on the other end I never give personal details on the phone which frustrated her hugely. I think she thought I was slightly unhinged when I started babbling on about 'big brother' and you never knew who was listening! She didn't know what to say except that someone would call to my house. Was just about to launch into my 'noone can call without my agreement' speach when she hung up.

 

Where do I go from here? Can't go down CPR route as I'm in Scotland but should I do SAR request? Am quite happy to sit tight for a while while my account gets passed around. Most of the time I forget about it but occassionaly the panic sets in and I think 'what have I started'. I'm on my own with an 8 year old and she thinks the 'double glazing salesman' is very persistant with his phone calls. Would hate for her to be around if someone calls to the door.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks!

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Send the doorstep call letter off. Keep a cheap camera at the ready, just in case they trespass.

If youve got window boxes upstairs, it would be not be your fault if they got wet when they visited. 'Oh I didnt see you down there' springs to mind;)

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The letter I sent them a couple of weeks ago stated that I certainly did NOT give agreement to anyone visiting my home. Was sent recorded and has been signed for. Might just send them another to remind them.

 

Have a camera at the ready just incase. Unfortunately no window boxes but front door leads into kitchen so might just be throwing out the dirty water from mopping the floor at the moment someone arrives.

 

They rang again a little while ago so I answered, told them to hold on a minute and left the phone sitting in the kitchen for 20 minutes. Won't stop the calls but it gives me some sense of getting back at them in a small way.

 

Do I just wait to see what happens next? Expecting my cca any day now as Sharkleys said it was being sent under seperate cover but just expecting the usual terms and conditions and application. Was originally a goldfish card taken out about 12 or so years ago so hopefully no original agreement.

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Hi Becca,

 

We know BC won't reply to your CCA request with the actual agreement, and that you're not going to try the CPR route just now.

 

So why not send the SAR - this will get you your a/c statements so you can see what you've been charged in penalties which you can reclaim.

 

But they should also send a copy of the credit agreement, along with everything else they have for you. If they don't (and we know they won't), you can make a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

If the ICO won't help you, you can seek the backing of the court (hope this works in Scotland) for their non-compliance with the SAR.

 

:)

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Well if youre not going CPR then the only option as Slick states is the SAR, you need to be specific in what you want from them, ( they wriggle out of the Agreement ). It also costs you £10. ( CPR costs nothing)

Its all part of a very long game, so you may as well be pro-active and start totting up their charges etc.

use the figures as a counterclaim figure if by some chance they produce a valid agreement for any court proceedings.

My own personal feeling is to wait until they produce the goods as it were. Then hit them with the counterpunch.

If they dont produce an executed agreement, then there is nothing they can legally do to enforce it, unless a Judge says so.

My reasoning is this, If you claim all their charges back before this , you are sorta kinda admitting to an agreement being in place. This will give them a slight advantage. Youre best taking that away from them. After all, why would they pester you if they had the agreement to hand??

If it were me, I'd give you one chance to pay, then haul your butt to court.:D

Keep your chin up, theres lots more to life than worrying what they'll do next.

If you let them pester you, then thats what they'll do. If you get organised and report their actions, you've got a lot more ammo than them.

Have fun with it, their poo smells just the same as yours:p. They aint no better than you

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Thanks Slick and Bazaar. Have decided to wait a week or so until I get my 'under seperate cover' stuff from Sharkleys. Will then be nearing pay day so can do SAR then. In the meantime will look through the Scotland threads to see what others have done.

 

Thanks for the advice.:)

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Hi Becca,

 

Subbing your thread because we are in the same position as you.

 

Had the T&C's response to CCAing Barclays and then got a DN from Mercers, even though it is an invalid DN!

 

Anyway, sent the acc. in dispute letter this week and continue to wait. Also SAR'd them, not so much for charges as I dont think we have that many before all the late charges etc have been recently applied, but want to see if the Credit Agreement slips out by accident here. Doubt it, but its all defence in court against what they should have produced but failed to.

 

I like your brass neck with the phone calls, good for you! ours have all but tailed off now strangely (all except Cap1) but my wife wants to have ago at them all - I think its just not worth the hassle they will give - but I like how you have got them thinking you are a bit mental! Ill bet it frustrates them no end ;)

 

Keep heart and stick with the forum - we are new as well and the people are fantastic - even just for a bit of support when its needed!

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Thanks for that. It's the court bit that worries me. Would I have to travel down to a court in Northampton or elsewhere in England or would things happen at my local court in Scotland? Does anyone know?

 

Many thanks.

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Hi Becca,

 

I know the Scottish court system differs in certain ways from the English. My comments are based on the latter so you'll need to check locally.

 

If you or the bank start court action and a defence is filed, you would seek and get a transfer of the case to your local county court. This is where the case would by run from and where any hearings would be held.

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Still nothing from Sharkleys. Last letter from them a few weeks ago said they'd send a copy of my agreement under seperate cover but it hasn't appeared yet. However, got a letter from Scotcall today which spooked me a bit. It states they are acting on behalf of Mercers and have been instructed by them to collect the outstanding arrears due on my Barclaycard account. If I don't ring Mercers immediately it may lead to a personal visit by one of their representatives to collect payment.

 

What should I do? Should I reply stating account is in dispute as no agreement has been sent to me? Is it ok to do this by email or is a recorded letter best?

 

I've read on other threads about Scotcall being involved with Barclaycard arrears so trying not to panic too much!!:eek:

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http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/159235-barclaycard-mercers-dept-collectors.html Hi Becca! I have given you a link to Gaz thread which i have been subscribing too,There are quite a few posts abut Scotcall and other doorstep agents and we have all posted discussed and joked about our expereinces with doorstop caller !If you read Gaz thread you will realise what a pathetic joke these doorstep collecters are! and not anything to worry about.They have no powers and just turn and run when challegened ! You could print a no visiter letter and hand it to man when he calls or if you dont want to answer door push lettter through letterbox.I am keeping a letter by my door ready to hand to the scotcall man if he tries to visit me again:D

Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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Im happy to help with support and my own opinions but as i have no legal qualifications If I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action,

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