Is this a standard or dodgy CCA request reply from HSBC?

[lisaf]

Hi All,

 

i cca'd hsbc last week for a managed loan that I have had with them for a couple of years - you know the loan that they say is their last chance of helping you and then charge you extortionate interest on it!

In fact they say that you cannot get one of their 'normal' loans as your credit is so bad so this is the last resort!

Anyway, today I got a reply back from them saying:

' I notice that you have omitted to sign your letter and therefore we cannot match the signature held on our records.

We are unable therefore to correspond with you until we have your signed authority and can validate your signature. Once this has been done we will be able to undertake your request for data.

Under the data Protection Act, we are compelled to ensure that personal data on our records is correct at all times. until we are able to verify your signature, our records will remain unchanged'.

So what do I do now? Are they right or is it a ploy to get me to send my sig. and then somehow copy it onto some dodgy agreement?

Any advice very gratefully received!

Lisa x

[Fred Bassett]

Hi All,

 

i cca'd hsbc last week for a managed loan that I have had with them for a couple of years - you know the loan that they say is their last chance of helping you and then charge you extortionate interest on it!

In fact they say that you cannot get one of their 'normal' loans as your credit is so bad so this is the last resort!

Anyway, today I got a reply back from them saying:

' I notice that you have omitted to sign your letter and therefore we cannot match the signature held on our records.

We are unable therefore to correspond with you until we have your signed authority and can validate your signature. Once this has been done we will be able to undertake your request for data.

Under the data Protection Act, we are compelled to ensure that personal data on our records is correct at all times. until we are able to verify your signature, our records will remain unchanged'.

So what do I do now? Are they right or is it a ploy to get me to send my sig. and then somehow copy it onto some dodgy agreement?

Any advice very gratefully received!

Lisa x

 

Call their bluff. Sign it with something similar but with a marked difference to the way you normally sign. Most importantly, take a copy of this and if necessary, get it witnessed. When you send your letter off with this signature you will soon find out.

 

If an "agreement" arrives with this signature then you will know that they are committing fraud. If they write back to tell you that the signatures do not match then you know they have almost certainly got your correct signature.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[rory32]

It's a ploy. Nothing in the Data Protection Act states that they require a signature.

 

I assume they have previously quite happily sent letters containing personal/sensitive information regarding this account to your address?

[ScarletPimpernel]

They did this to me. I went to a branch and insisted that a staff member witness my signature - which I then covered with black marker pen. They didn't complain!

[Fred Bassett]

It's a ploy. Nothing in the Data Protection Act states that they require a signature.

 

I assume they have previously quite happily sent letters containing personal/sensitive information regarding this account to your address?

 

It would be nice to catch the buggers out though wouldn't it Rory? In fact, if they knew that this was a widely-used ploy they would have to think very, very hard indeed about using 'photoshop specials' if that is what they are doing.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[42man]

Send them this...by recorded

 

Dear Sirs,

 

RE Account NO XXXXXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated xx/xx/2008 the contents of which are noted

 

In your letter you make reference to requiring my signed authorisation before you comply. I draw your attention to the fact that the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that i supply you a copy of my signature before you comply with my S78 request.

 

If it is for Data Protection purposes then i can happily supply you with documentation to substantiate my identity to you.

 

However please note that to date you have happily sent statements and correspondence containing extensive sensitive private information to my address. I have to ask if you are concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person why has it taken so long to raise this?

 

As you are aware, disclosing data without adequate checks of identity is contrary to the 7th principal of data protection, listed in schedule 1 of the Data protection Act 1998:

 

7. Appropriate technical and organisational measures shall be taken against unauthorised or unlawful processing of personal data and against accidental loss or destruction of, or damage to, personal data.

 

My request for a true copy of my credit agreement under section 77/78 was made on xx/xx/2007 and the 12 working days for your compliance expire on xx/xx/2007. I note that there is no provision that removes the requirements of the act to provide this information on time, even if you are unsure of my identity.

 

i look forward to receiving the documentation requested

 

Regards

[lisaf]

Thanks 42man - will send that first thing on Monday!

Lisax

[lisaf]

Hi Guys,

right an update - and not a good one - I don't think! HSBC have sent the cca request but could you Guys let me know if it is enforceable please?

Bear in mind, I cannot even upload 'photos on facebook so goodness knows how I'm gonna get this agreement up!

Lisax

[lisaf]

Sorry could someone give me the link to photobucket pls? And is it easy?!

[rory32]

There's a guide to using photobucket here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

Here's a link to the photobucket website Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket

[lisaf]

Hi - sorry will post up 'agreement' they sent from work on monday as scanner is there.

really didn't think we had signed anything so can't wait for you all to have a look! I do know that the sigs are on a totally different page to everything else?

Think I read somewhere here that's not right?- maybe just clutching at straws!

Lisa x

[lisaf]

Hi Guys - these are the docs..

Lisax

[lisaf]

Hi All - any opinions on this? I'm pretty sure it's probably fine had that horrible sinking feeling all weekend!

Lisax

[ScarletPimpernel]

Your personal details are visible on the first page.

[creditcardmug]

But the page with your sig is nothing more than a standing order mandate.

 

How do we know that the other pages have anything to do with it, the prescribed terms are not on the sig page and the is no mention of where they are to be found.

 

This has hardly been done in the prescribed format according to the CCA.

 

Theres plenty of space on the page for the terms.

 

The sad thing is there are some judges it seems who would except such a document was enforceable

[lisaf]

Thanks Guys - I really thought i scrubbed all my details out - never mind!

I thought it was a bit dodge not having my sigs on a page with anything else, it could be for anything to be honest.

Anyone else have any views - i'm kinda expecting the worse!

This is the one thing i really wanted to fight as i feel they really stitched us up on this.

Lisa

[lisaf]

))))))bump((((((( - please x

[lisaf]

Another shameless bump!

[ScabHunter]

I think the fact that they were phishing for your signature gives the game away here.

 

I am assuming that these are all separate pieces of paper.

 

The part you have signed is just a standing order mandate. Anybody could slot that between sheets of paper claiming you owe them £20million or anything else.

 

CCM is sadly right that some judges will and do enforce rubbish - but this should certainly NOT be enforced, and if I was you I would be challenging them all the way on it.

 

I'll have a read of the rest of the thread and see if there is anything else you can challenge them on should it go to court.

 

Keep the phishing letters - any good judge will know that you don't demand signatures in response to a CCA request, and will have a very good inkling as to why they have done so in this case.

 

SH

[lisaf]

Thanks SH - well that's certainly given me a glimmer of hope! You're right it was 5 separate sheets of paper.

With all the support on here, I'm sure I can stick it out and go the course. Funny enough they have today sent another phishing letter for my credit card cca!

Many thanks again

Lisa x

[lisaf]

Found my 'phishing' letter from them - panicked and thought i'd chucked it! But got it firmly in file now.

Is there anything I should be doing now? Or do i just sit tight and wait? Any letters I should be sending?

many thanks in advance

Lisa x

[lisaf]

((((((bump)))))))

[ScabHunter]

I am all in favour of sending out what is necessary and no more.

 

Send them the "Account In Dispute" letter -

 

Account In Dispute

 

Ref:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of xx/xx/xx, the contents of which have been noted.

 

You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account.

 

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.

You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.(12+2 days after you sent the CCA request)

 

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account.

 

Furthermore

 

You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation.

 

This limit has expired

 

As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states:

 

If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1)

 

(a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement.

 

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

 

As you have Failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, Failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested.

 

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

 

Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment.

 

Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect.

 

This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies.

 

Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data.

 

It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends.

 

Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data.

 

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

 

The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

 

* You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

* You may not add further interest or any charges to the account.

* You may not pass the account to a third party.

* You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.

* You may not issue a default notice related to the account.

 

 

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I therefore request a copy of your official complaints procedure which you are obliged to supply.

 

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

 

I look forward to hearing from you in writing.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

 

Personally I would then ignore them unless they issue court proceedings. Keep evidence of all threatagrams sent and any regulations breached.

 

In the end, they either take you to court on an unenforceable agreement, go away and bother someone else, or keep wasting postage money on letters which never elicit a response.

 

SH

[Fred Bassett]

Has anyone else noticed the fact that 131 payments would take you to 2016, not 2026? Don't know if this makes any difference though.

 

Regards.

 

Fred

[lisaf]

Thanks SH - will get that off to them first thing in the morning. They attempted to take a loan payment yesterday but as we were overdrawn it got knocked. We have tried to cancel it but it doesn't let you do it - shock!

We have now started having (finally) our wages paid into another bank so that they can't get any more from us.

Fred - i didn't notice the dates of the payments, another cock-up of theirs!

Many thanks again

Lisa x