Spreadex Limited CCJ - i admitted debt - now going for CO - can i N245 or go BK or N244?

[Misscynical]

On 2 April 2008 I owed a total of £14,500 to a Spreadbetting company. I paid off £5510 of the debt by using credit cards (stupid, I know!) and tried to make an arrangement for monthly payments. They asked for £1000 per month which was ridiculous.

 

Ive been suffering from depression and anxiety (more so now than ever) and didn't have the energy to work out my finances. I agreed to pay £500 per month which I later realised was also unrealistic. 

The company are adding interest every month and I have now received a papers from the County Court.

 

It contains a copy of the Claim from the spreadbetting company and a Response pack. They were sent by standard Royal Mail post and have been forwarded on from my previous address through the redirection service.

 

Having now faced up to the debt nightmare I see that I additionally owe around £56,000 on various credit/charge cards and one loan.

 

I have some equity in my house but not enough to cover the debts and as I am on Incapacity benefit I am not in a position to remortgage. Is there anyway to avoid bankruptcy as I don't want to lose the house and the one bit of security/stability we have in our lives:-/

[42man]

Hi Loui....firstly welcome to the CAG forums, you are amongst others who are / have been in similar situations to yourself....i'm moving this thread to the legal forums, where hopefully you will get some more advice / comment....

 

A couple of questions if it is a County Court Claim, what are the particulars of the claim - don't be too specific with the numbers

[Misscynical]

Hi, thanks for welcome.

I'll try to find my way to the legal forum and see if there are any responses.

 

With regard to Particulars of Claim, what info would you like, please?

 

Briefly says Claimant deals with CFD's as defined by FSA1986 and Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.

Says all debts and trades made are legally enforceable under s412 of later act....

T&C's point out that debts are enforceable..

Defendant failed to settle outstanding account balance within 7 days of statement being sent.

Written warning that they'll issue claim in County Court.

Amount outstanding £9k,

interest accrued £500,

amount before court fee £9.5k.

 

Will I look forw a reply here or on legal?

Many thanks.

[StayingCalm]

Hi loui

 

42man has already moved this thread to Legal. If you look at the top of the thread it says 'Debt Action Group

 

So you just continue here and all replies will follow on.

 

Good luck

 

sc

[Misscynical]

Got it SC, thanks for that

[42man]

I'm not familiar with these type of debts to be honest, but i'm hoping somebody else may be able to add...

[Misscynical]

Im not sure what I should do with the claim form and whether it was sent to me by the court or the spreadbetting company. There is an acknowledgment of service in it. It arrived by standard post at my old address and has been forwarded on by Royal Mail redirection. Should I acknowledge it or not? I told the company I was moving back to our own house at the end of September and a record of the address should have been on file from when I first opened the account.

 

If I send back the acknowledgement of service form, shall I let the court know I have moved?

 

I also need to let them know if I am defending whole or part of the debt. Starting to panic now!

[palomino]

This is a court document.

You need to send the acknowledgment of service back - asap.

 

From the description of your circumstances you have no grounds to dispute the debt and therefore no defence to the claim. Sad but true.

 

You should admit the amount owing and offer to make repayments based on what you can afford. You will need to send an income and expenditure report on your finances together with any explanations for you circumstances and the reasons why you cannot afford the whole amount now.

Keep it factual, unemotional and to the point. Ensure everything is explained. Enclose any supporting documents that help explain your circumstances - eg. doctor's certificates, disability registration. Adopt an apologetic tone but lay off the sympathy vote. State that you have now seen your way clear to sort out your debts after a difficult period of depression. Write it so that the judge will be on your side.

 

If you need help then come back here.

 

Just thinking about dates - what was the date of the claim? You might not have much time to get the aos back.

[Misscynical]

Thanks for taking the time to reply. The issue date is 17 October as is the postmark on the envelope. It was redirected by Royal Mail to my current address and I received it yesterday 22 October.

 

I really can't afford to pay more than maybe £50 a month, if that once everything else is taken into account, especially after I contact all the credit card companies about my situation and try to make arrangements with them.

 

Would the court be able to freeze interest as this is more than the monthly amount I can pay. If so would they only be able to do this if it were a CCJ. If a CCJ is made what could happen I find in the future I am unable to pay the monthly amount too?

 

Should I send the acknowledgment of service in the meantime to give myself an extra 14 days from the date of service to prepare case for defence as it might give me some thinking time.

 

If/When it comes to sending the admission form back should I send it to the court or the spreadbet company?

 

Sorry, mind is in overdrive!

[palomino]

 

Should I send the acknowledgment of service in the meantime to give myself an extra 14 days from the date of service to prepare case for defence as it might give me some thinking time.

 

 

Yes!

 

 

If/When it comes to sending the admission form back should I send it to the court or the spreadbet company?

 

The AoS goes back to the court.

[wilko1]

I always thought gambling debts weren't recoverable.

[Misscynical]

Thanks Palamino. I've sent the Acknowledgment back today and guess I have another 14 days to prepare a defence although appreciate what you say about not having one. I didn't know if the £5500 I'd already paid off would help my cause. As I had a £1000 credit facility is it possible to CCA them or is this sort of account totally different to credit cards? Cheers, L

[StayingCalm]

Hi loui

 

I too think gambling debts may not be enforceable, if in fact this is regarded as a gambling debt.

But also if you had a credit limit of £1000 how come they allowed your account to go so far over limit.

 

If this debt is from one position why wasn't it closed out before it reached this amount?

If it is from numerous positions why did they let you continue trading when your account was so far over limit?

 

I hope you can get further advice here before you commit to anything.

 

sc

[coolerking]

i spreadbet myself and the broker has very strick rules around deposits, and limits which are there to protect people like me. They have a reponsiblity to ensure that the consumer is protected. If there were no rules in place and they did no assessment of your finances i would suggest that it is not very responsible of them, after all this is gambling and they should be offering you a level of protection as it can be addictive.

 

If you are saying they just let you bet what you wanted with no controls in place to check you had the means to afford to pay it back if you lost that is irresponsible of them in IMHO.

 

My broker will not give me credit limit, i do not fund using a credit card, i used a cash deposit so my exposure is a fixed amount although if it is possible that i could lose my deposit if the market went against me.

 

If you suffered losses over a long period of time the broker should have picked up on this and pulled the plug earlier.

 

 

Risk Warning on my website

 

Spread betting is a leveraged product and can result in losses that exceed your initial deposit. It may not be suitable for everyone, so please ensure that you fully understand the risks involved.

 

In my case I can choose to use a guranteed stop to limit my risk

 

Suggest you post the T&C of the account you have so we can see what is says.

[Misscynical]

Few, thanks guys, I thought my thread was going to die a death!

 

On 1 April I had £11000 in my account.

I closed one position on which I lost £3800.

 

The following day things were getting worse and the rest of the positions were closed out one of which was on its own a loss of £14180!

 

I had opened the account on the internet and the only documentation I have is a two-way customer agreement with a risk warning notice.

 

They have added £225 as court fees to their claim and I am not sure how they worked the interested out.

Would I be able to CCA them?

Should I SAR them?

 

In the POC the Claimant relies on the case of City Index Limited v Leslie 1991 so will see what that's all about.

 

I was suffering from depression and mental health issues when I opened the account and an obsessive compulsive disorder. In the end I was sitting at the computer for 16 hours a day! I was prime fodder for the betting company. I suppose if I'd admitted to this they wouldn't have let me open an account would they?

 

If the two-way agreement isn't the T&Cs then I don't have anything to post up.

However, I did just make a fake application and they gave me a provisional £2k limit whilst I was filling the application in.

 

They then sent me an email confirming the limit and said that once they'd contacted me on the phone number given my account would be opened.

 

During applying for fake account I printed off the Risk Notice, the Customer Agreement and the Client Declaration.

 

Although these may differ from the ones that popped up when I opened my account in 2006, I can post them here if it helps??

 

Hope these can be opened, first attempt at this!

CLIENT DECLARATION.doc

Customer Agreement.doc

Risk Warning Notice.doc

 

For anyone that can send a little additional help my way please! I sent the AoS back to the Court but none of the documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim were attached. Should I now send the letter below to the Claimaint??

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, I request you to provide me with the information and documents detailed below.

 

I request that the information should be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, it may hamper proceedings and result in me filing an unnecessary defence or counter claim.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

 

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Barclaycard.

 

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

 

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

 

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it may delay or frustrate the equitable resolution of this matter and result in unnecessary cost for both parties.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

 

I'm still not sure if I should CCA them or whether the Credit Agreement stuff applies to this sort of thing.

 

Thanks to those for input so far. L

[42man]

Louise if you are going to send the CPR....then it should read CPR 18 - REQUEST FOR INFORMATION, but again, i'm not familiar on these types of debt, so don't know exactly if this is suitable....

 

The CPR should force the other side to disclose all the paperwork needed for you to defend the debt....I don't even know if these debts are covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

[Misscynical]

Thanks 42. Have printed off the letter and will send of tomorrow even if not relevant as I'd like the information. All that came with the PoC was a copy of an email to me and my reply. Have got a free 15 min session for legal advice this week but from what info I've given the solicitor he's suggesting I go down the bankruptcy route with credit cards etc. I think he'll help with defence but will post up the outcome.

 

With regard to the CPR letter, before I send it I'd like to add a bit about interest added to my account, rates etc. Does anyone know what the correct wording would be or if it is in any other standard letters that I could pinch to add in?

 

The final bit I would like to include is for spreadbet company to prove they actually placed the trade with the market in the first place as I've heard that sometimes the spreadbet companies take a gamble that you'll lose and don't actually place the trade. Any suggested wording would be very helpful. With thanks....

 

Rightly or wrongly I am sending a CPR18 to the spreadbet company who issued a claim against me as I'd like to see what information they hold. I want to add to the CPR18 that I would like to see how interest is added and at what rate, a breakdown type thing. Could anyone suggest any wording please?

 

Lastly, whilst I placed a bet/trade with the spreadbet company I would like to see evidence that the trade was actually placed in the market as I'm aware that sometimes spreadbet companies take a gamble on the fact that you'll lose the bet and don't actually place the trade. Any suggested wording for this would be much appreciated. Thanks all.

[surfaceagentx20]

Gaming Act 1968 section 16 imposed restrictions on the grant of credit. The entire Act was repealed by Gambling Act 2005 section 356(3)(g). I am no great shakes on gaming law, not by a long chalk. It seems to me on a quick gander of the Gambling Act 2005 that the ability or restrictions on an ability to grant credit seems to stem from any licence granted to an operator, rather than restrictions imposed by the Act, though there are provisions in the Act set out at sections 81, 177 and 245.

 

I'd have a scout about the 2005 Act and check out the operator's licence. One proper snag here is the 2005 Act was introduced in stages and as I understand things the 1968 Act was not fully repealed until the 2005 Act had been fully introduced so you'd need to check out the 2005 Act Commencement Orders to discover what came in when.

 

Sorry I couldn't be of more help but this is not my field and to get to grips with the legislaion will take me a month of sundays.

 

x20

[Misscynical]

X20, thanks for reply and see what you mean about the Gaming Act!

 

Here's a summary of events todate, if anyone can help please?

 

A Claim form dated 17 October, was sent by Royal Mail to my previous address (despite notifying Claimant in an email that I was returning to my permanent address at end of September).

 

I received the Claim Form through the Royal Mail Redirection Service on 22 October. I returned the Acknowledgement of Service on 27 October and I intended to defend the Claim.

 

After legal advice I realised I was on the verge of bankruptcy and rather than trying to avoid the debt I then sent the Admission Form by Recorded delivery to the Claimaint on 17 November. I offered a sum of £5 pcm.

 

On 5 December 2008 I received a Judgement. (dated 18 November). This had been sent to my previous address despite having notified the Court in the Acknowledgment of Service, and the Claimaint in the Admission Form of my current address.

 

As the Judgement was for the full amount and there was no mention of monthly payments, I rang the Court to ask whether they had taken into account my financial situation and the offer I’d made to the Claimant on my Admission Form.

 

I was told by the lady at the Court that there was no Admission Form logged on their computer and it had not been received by the Court. As such the Court took it that I had not replied to the claimant with an Admission Form (with offer of payment) or filed a Defence. When the Judge made the Judgement he wouldn’t have had any sight of my offer or financial position.

 

I then rang the Claimaint (spreadbetting company) and asked if they had sent my Admission Form to the Court for the Judge to see. They said that they had but as it would take me 160 years to clear the debt then they have now applied for a Charging Order as well. I pointed out that the property they were attempting to put the Order on was not owned by me. I do not believe that my Admission Form was ever sent to the court and believe that there has been an abuse of process.

 

Can I SAR the spreadbetting company to see what information they have on me? I feel the spreadbetting company has been underhand in their dealings with this. I would imagine it is too late now to Defend the Claim as the Claimant has my Admission Form and the Judgement has been made?

 

Can anyone please help?? Many thanks, Miss C

 

If anyone could help me out I'd really appreciate it but it does involve recapping from my other thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/165310-spreadbet-debt-various-credit.html

Big thanks, Miss C

[hallowitch]

what is spreadbeting

[Misscynical]

Trading on Contracts For Differences (CFDs). Basically betting an amount per point that the price of something ie oil, silver, gold, shares, will go up or down. If you bet £1 per point that oil will go up and it goes up 100 cents then you win £100. If it goes down 100 points then you lose £100. Simple... but costly!! Someone could probably give a better explanation but after everything I no longer have the heart, sorry:-)

[hallowitch]

thanks no intentions of trying it just wanted to know what is was ill stick to my online poker doesn't cost me a lot only play small tournaments so don't win/lose much

[Monty2007]

Dear Misscynical

 

I think you have a strong case based on their requirements to protection rules relating to on-line gambling. I personally doubt this will ever get to trial.

 

I know someone this happened to and I am amazed they let you continue with such large open positions without warning you of the implications.

 

I really do wish you well and hope that you can sort this our and most importantly get some help.

[Misscynical]

Hi Monty

 

Could you explain what you mean about their requirements to protection rules relating to on-line gambling, please? I know that spreadbetting debts are enforceable. As I've now admitted the claim/debt isn't it too late to build a case? I'm not sure that spreadbetting is a form of gambling?

 

Thanks for input and good wishes, Miss C

[Monty2007]

Hi

 

Foremost, there is a duty of care and I recall reading some legislation in relation to licensing in that the gaming industry needs to monitor so called "problem" or compulsive gamblers and ensure that they are in control.

 

I suggest that you call GamCare who are a registered charity that provides confidential telephone support and counselling to anyone who is affected by problem gambling. GamCare can be contacted on 0845 6000 133

 

The court would ask what systems the company had in place with respect to keeping you informed of your liability with respect to the open positions that you had. I would also write to their CEO and all board directors, put some emotional pressure on them!