Renault Espace 2.2dCi Major Engine Problem

[FormerEspaceLover]

Love the thread, but wish I'd read it a few months ago. Our Espace is the 2.2 dSi dynamique registered in early 2005 and because we don't do a lot of miles it has only got 36,000 miles on the clock. Up until recently I would have happily championed this car, but now I realise it was just a time bomb. Like others above the problem with the engine has come home to roost for me too. I am yet to find out the full extent of the problems, but the turbo has gone and I am told that 2 cylinders have no compression. The car was belching out black smoke, it became sluggish, the oil light came on followed by the stop light. Ye gods...36,000 miles, not 136,000 miles! Oh, and another thing, I've had problems with the card keys and the boot, as well as having the dashboard replaced 4 months ago which cost a grand It has made the decision to change cars quite an easy one to make. Please learn from this. I know I have!

[Conniff]

Welcome FEL. I have said it a hundred times on here, French cars are not worth the Meccano set they are built with. Post like yours continue to reinforce that belief, (as well as experience of course).

 

Stick around, you might just be able to help others.

[sailor sam]

Funny how we don't get many Italian car problems on here...

[heliosuk]

Funny how we don't get many Italian car problems on here...

 

Usually they have fallen to bits inside the warranty period Sam!!!

Now I followed a prancing horse down to Shrewsbury today in pouring rain and crawled all over it in a real car. A BRITISH BUILT, DESIGNED, RANGE ROVER EVOQUE.

 

AND..........25% of the cost!!!

 

The only good vehicles to come out of Italy were er............any V twin bike from Lake Como, ....Alfa V6 engines ............Fiat V6 engines?.............Fiat 124 Sport...........Lancia Stratos...............

 

 

Hmmmmmmmmmmm think I need to rethink

[sailor sam]

Speaking from complete experience Helio, I can add to your list; Fiat 127 1050CL, Strada 65CL, Mirafiori CL, Supermirafiori (although the 2 offside doors rotted away at the bottom seals and the car was registered about 2 months prior to the introduction of the 6 year anti-corrosion warranty which was introduced in 1979ish. BUT Fiat still replaced the doors!), X/19 VS, Uno 70 SL. Uno 70 SX, Regata Bianca 85 (this one admittedly did have miss-fire problems), Uno Turbo (suffered a seized turbo at under 3 months old but repaired under warranty with no problems), Tipo 1.4 DGT, Punto Cabrio, Bravo HGT, Coupe 16V and my current car, Punto HGT (which is the longest I have ever owned ANY car, new in March 2000).

 

Out of the above list, I can, with hand on my heart, state that I have only had real problems with the 3 mentioned; Supermirafiori, Regata 85S and the Uno Turbo. Anyone can slate Fiat (or Alfa) till they're blue in the face, but I know differently... from experience.

[heliosuk]

I seem to remember from my days in Africa that Fiats excelled on the Hell Run as well. More Mercs burnt out than Fiats. I think the Italians went through a bad patch like the Brits. But now look at both.

 

Good cars but pricey unfortunately! And then compare it to the German **** being turned out. Seems like the krauts have a bit of catching up to do.

[foulpipe]

I guess I'm lucky coming to this thread after 5 trouble free Espace 2.2dCi owning years. All services have been done at the relevant mileages, but I've had the oil changed every 4500 miles, about twice as often as per the manual. But on Friday Feb 10th I was driving through Belgium with a full 7 seat load of a mate, his kids and my kids on the way to Austria for a skiing holiday just as we've done for the last three years. Sailing along thinking how good life was when with no warning lights there was a sudden loss of power and clouds of black smoke from the exhaust. I pulled over and stopped, and after a bit of 3G googling we found a local Renault dealer about 6km away. How lucky was that? The very helpful local (english speaking) Renault dealer organised a tow to his place, he and his mechanic looked, smelt, plugged in the computer and said we were going nowhere further in that car that day. There was no measurable oil level in the engine, and they had to put 3 litres in before they got a dab on the very bottom of the dip stick.

 

Thanks to a very good friend and a very helpful insurance company we managed to get away the next day in a Chrysler Voyager, but the Espace had to be towed to Calais, towed onto the ferry, towed off the ferry, and picked up by the AA and taken to my local Renault dealer, where I bought the car in 2007. They are now looking at it and I've heard nothing since Thursday last week when they asked for authority to spend £199 to do investigative work.

 

Interestingly the Belgian dealer said that if you push Renault Belgium, letters to the CEO, that sort of thing, they are regularly paying 80% of the replacement engine costs. How about Renault UK stepping up to that level of responsibility?

Edited February 20, 2012 by foulpipe

[steverockers]

I am yet another bankrupted owner with an Espace with this terrible engine - so far new turbo, replacement engine and now the clutch (which was replaced when the replacement engine was fitted). However, my posting is to pass on some good advise given to me by my 'petrolhead' garageist in France. He said that the white metal bearings on the big ends are very poor and break up especially when a turbo has blown up and deposited rubbish in the oil. He says that anyone with an early 2.2 should drop the sump and change the bearings before everything disintegrates. The proof of the pudding was when we dropped the sump on the second hand engine he was about to fit. It had done 70000 miles and, low and behold, the bearings were already damaged. He said that the problem was uneven heating in the oven which baked the white metal on to the shells. I presume that later production bearings are ok.

[foulpipe]

Latest development on this is that Renault UK have said it needs a new engine, £7k, no surprise there, BUT they are paying 90% of the cost. That's right, 90%! And it will be guaranteed. A de facto admission of liability if ever I saw one, but no doubt 'without prejudice'.

 

I've said yes, and we'll see how things go from here. This car has no more chances to crap out. I drove a friend's Kia Sedona at the weekend. Not so luxurious inside, but a really nice engine, and a 7 year guarantee go a long way to making seats feel more comfy.

[reganred]

Sorry to be reading all these threads...I seem to be another "victim" of the 2.2DCi engine failure. Ours packed up on the M25 last Friday. No warning lights, just a loud popping noise, juddering car, then stop sign on engine. It was dark so we could not see any smoke. AA recovered us home and car was covered in oil. AA thought turbo had blown but when our mechanic looked at it the conrod had gone through the engine and a hole the size of a mans fist was made. Paid £5K last September for an 05 top of the range Grand Espace. Immediately had it serviced and had the cambelt changed at a further cost of £725. It would seem that as it stand the car is worthless and is sitting on my drive in immacultate condition inside and out.

 

I contacted Renault UK yesterday and spoke to a wonderful Customer Relations Manager who asked me to email my service record to her (I have a full service history which is mainly with Renault except the last 2). Today she rang me back and arranged for my car to be recovered to a main dealer and they are going to look into it. They are also giving me a courtesy car (all at no expense to myself). My car is 3 years out of warrantly so I am being treated really well. It might have something to do with quoting watchdog and this forum to Renault UK.

 

I will keep everyone updated as I am picking courtesy car up in the morning and they will recover the Espace on Monday morning.

 

I am prayerful for a great result.

 

Regards

 

S x

[reganred]

UPDATE

 

Renault have had my car for 2 days and have found it needs a new turbo & engine at a cost of £6320. Renault UK have offered to cover 75% of this cost and warranty it. I am a very happy lady and have not had to fight at all. Customer Relations at Renault UK have been amazingly helpful and efficient :oops:Well done Renault !!!

[grumpy101]

have a look here too

 

http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=50660&highlight=dci+turbo

 

 

£££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££££

 

If one studies the Internet (Google Renault 2.2dci problems) you will see that these engines are very troublesome. OK for their cubic capacity they are some of the most powerful diesels in the world but just look at the longevity (or rather the lack of it!)

 

One thing that I would say is that engines get used to a particular brand of oil. It is after all a very important part of the engine. At this point I must add that at the moment I am running a stop-gap car, a 21 year old Peugeot 405D estate. Shell Helix was used at its first oil change and has been used ever since as IMHO changing the oil to a different type can spell disaster. A heavy haulage firm in this area discovered this and it cost the firms owner a fortune. Once he went back to the oil that the engines had got used to, the problems ceased. As to the Pug after 170,000 the engine runs like new and the performance is more than adequate with a top speed that cannot be mentioned here.

 

As to engines failing, a few years ago a German car became known as the rod-bender and head-buster. Absolutely terrible and AFAIK the rods were not up to the heavy turbo boost. The recall fix was kept secret of course but it was most likely stronger con-rods.

 

Perhaps a Class Action could be started over the 2.2 DCi engine. I am faintly interested because a fairly impecunious friend bought a used Renault Laguna 2.2 dci The first problem was the battery going flat when the car was not used. The main problem is that after going on a long run the car has broken down big time "All the warning lights came on, it revved-up and then a red light came on and it won't start up any more.":-x

[grumpy101]

I still have my car in the drive, still looking for an engine can anyone help??

 

Could the car be reverse engineered to accept a RELIABLE engine? This has been done in the past with the NSU Ro80. Nowadays the problem is of course emissions and a classical engine with a "jerk pump" might not pass. Perkins Diesels used to claim that they could offer diesel engines to reverse-engineer just about anything and in the past there was a Perkins conversion for the rather thirsty Volvo 145 and 245.

 

Having just said that I overhauled the engine on my Land Rover 300TDi that had previously been owned by morons. It had overheated badly, there was head gasket trouble and the pistons all had valve dents in them resulting from some clown fitting a new timing belt incorrectly. I refurbished the car with a new radiator, new cylinder head, new pistons and a new timing belt. At the MOT the tester was astonished with the battered trucks first time pass on emissions. Since then the truck has done Cornwall to Peterhead and return using about a cupful of engine oil. The only problem with the 300TDi is that it allegedly will not pass the Euro4 emissions regulations.

 

Most engine back-plates and bell-housings are to Society of Automotive Engineers pattern (SAE 6 is very common on small industrial engines) I think someone needs to look into the possibility of doing some reverse engineering as at present people are just throwing good money after bad.

 

It is possible to obtain emergency shut-down devices for engines. The normal arrangement is for a disc to move and shut off the air intake if the air-flow becomes ridiculous. With these devices known as a "Chalwyn Valve" engines that are running away as a result of burning their own lubricating oil can be stopped.

 

Above all avoid the places where they wear a tie and address you as "Sir" as this is the preamble to ripping you off!

Edited January 22, 2013 by grumpy101
explanation of "SAE"

[Glackin]

I recently purchased a 2005 Renault Espace 2.2DCI. I bought this privately from a friend as I knew he had it regularly serviced and the low mileage of 58,000 miles was a genuine reading. I purchased the car in June 2013.

I was travelling on Sunday 29th September when there was a huge outpouring of white smoke coming out from under the car.

I needed roadside assistance and got a recovery vehicle to take me 70 miles close to my home and to leave the car at my local garage.

Next day the garage looked at the car for me and confirmed that the Turbo had blown on the car.

 

I went on-line to see if I could source a new Turbo. I went into the Google search engine and typed turbo for a Renault Espace 2.2DCi . To my dismay I discovered a multitude of Espace owners who had experienced this breakdown in this exact model.

In fact there is a 2.2 DCI website set up to highlight this very deficiency with the Turbo in the Espace The problem is invariably in the 2005 model and blows normally at around 60,000mile

 

The website goes on to tell how they were treated by Renault Customer Service with some people getting the costs of repair fully refunded and other people getting various degrees of financial help

 

There are also a number of other websites that highlight the 2.2 DCi engine problem. An interesting fact was that if this had happened me in France then Renault are bound to help with repair as it is a recognised problem.

 

I contacted Renault Customer Service . I explained that I was aware through trawling the internet that there was an inherent problem with the Turbo in the DCI model and I expected them to refund me with the cost of the vehicle ie £3,200.

 

Customer service stated that Renault were not aware of any engine problem with the Renault Espace 2.2 CCi. She said the problem with looking in the internet is that it only tells of problem cases it does not tell of success stories. She suggested that I get the car taken to a Renault dealer who was based 16 miles from my home, for them to investigate the problem. Which I did

 

I phoned Renault Customer Service on 8th October as I have been left without a car and wanted to know what their findings were. Renault confirmed that the Turbo had in fact blew and the repair cost would be £2,058. I explained to Renault that I was aware that there had been a recognised fault with this Turbo and that under the Sale of Goods Act (SOGA) that this car was not fit for purpose ie The Turbo would blow at around sixty thousand miles. Renault asked that I leave it with her and that she would investigate.

 

Renault phoned baclthis afternoon and stated that because the vehicle was 8 years old and had not been serviced by Renault throughout its life then they were not prepared to provide any help whatsoever. I explained that I did not accept this argument as there was less than 60k miles on the engine so I now have to take this further how do you rate my chances of getting a refund?

[Desperate Daniella]

Hi Glackin, and welcome to CAG!

 

The problem you have is that Customer Services don't really understand the Sale of Goods Act. When I had a problem with my automatic gearbox the girl I spoke to just kept bleating that the car was no longer under warranty even though I had done only 20,000 miles.

 

I resolved it by contacting the CEO directly. He did understand SOGA and they replaced the gearbox with no charge.

 

I think you need to take the complaint to the top.

 

Good luck.

 

DD

[sailor sam]

Yep, good luck indeed!

 

IMHO Glackin hasn't legally got a leg to stand on. But if he/she stats a new thread then i'm sure others will contribute.

[Glackin]

How Do I complain to the CEO Danielle? Is there specific way to complain to Him/Her

[Westmead Fan]

i also don't think they have a leg to stand on. you brought a used car from a friend so not from Renault or a garage & when you say the vehicle has been regularly serviced, was it at the right intervals? was the correct grade of oil used? these are factors you need to know before even thinking of looking for Renault to pay or contribute to repairing your vehicle.

[heliosuk]

i also don't think they have a leg to stand on. you brought a used car from a friend so not from Renault or a garage & when you say the vehicle has been regularly serviced, was it at the right intervals? was the correct grade of oil used? these are factors you need to know before even thinking of looking for Renault to pay or contribute to repairing your vehicle.

 

But you've forgotten Westmead, SOGA is a magic potion that fixes all consumer ills especially with used cars. You just mention that you are going to apply a bit of this wonder ointment and all the wicked manufacturer's are going to roll over and play dead. It's a wonder drug to fix all.

 

Reality is that OP should be advised and take on board no chance. Worth a class action though me thinks if can get enough backing but watch for the odd balls as all we hear are complaints. Renault could easily show statistically there is no issue.